1080P on the horizon...Gary Reber talks HD formats... (1 Viewer)

[Jeff Kleist]

Japan has had HD now, like, more then a decade!

Technically yes, however to my knowlege the technology has been mostly used for outdoor and museum video walls, and I don't think there has bee nany consumer HD products until ATSC came about

 

[Jack Briggs]

Japan's obsolete high-def format is in analog NTSC. The specifications were established decades ago, and there have been high-def broadcasts in Japan since the 1980s.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

There were quite a few "hi vision" HD laserdiscs released in Japan using the Japanese analog HD format.

The laserdisc players that played them were designed exceedingly well and produce some of the best laserdisc pictures even from standard NTSC discs...in some cases images that rival or exceed DVD (comparing a DVD and LD made from the same source D1 tape).

-dave

 

[Alistair_M]

Just to add to the mix. The Sony playstation 3 will be coming in 2005-2006 which will be blu-ray too. So assuming it sells well (and I think it will sell 50 million within 3 years) - by 2008-2009 there will be lots of players capable of buying Columbia Tristar high def dvds. With that sort of worldwide userbase the blu-ray pre-recorded marketplace will be big enough to entice other studios to release pre-recorded films to it as well.

 

[Ed St. Clair]

Japan's obsolete high-def format

Jack, how do Japan's HD sat & HD LD's, obsolete as they may be, compare to our soon too be "obsolete" DVD's?

 

[Dan Hitchman]

I don't see where 1080p is the end all be all of resolutions. It is not 35 mm film resolution (which is higher still and was quite apparent with the theatrical runs of AToC and Spy Kids 2), and certainly not 70mm resolution.

There will always be better than 1080p video displays and recording equipment (there are now, they just aren't in the consumer arena yet).

The studios withholding 1080p video because it's the best Hollywood can ever offer, is a very specious argument.

They haven't even given us lossless compressed or even uncompressed high resolution multichannel audio with our video yet either. They should as they are on DVD-Audio and SACD. Enough of this DTS and Dolby Digital lossy B.S.

Dan

 

[FredK]

I don't see where 1080p is the end all be all of resolutions. It is not 35 mm film resolution (which is higher still and was quite apparent with the theatrical runs of AToC and Spy Kids 2), and certainly not 70mm resolution.

It's great for HT though, I can't wait to see it as the standard for released titles. It's not as far from being reality as it was 10 years ago, but it's still a long wait...

It's not 35mm resolution, but (beside being good enough for my next HD display purchase) I was under the impression more and more movies were being digitally rendered at 1080 resolution for post-production purposes. I've only seen AOTC DLP & IMAX and I've never seen SK2... were these as fuzzy as some people say? Obviously 35mm should look better, but is 1080 a bad experience at a commercial theater?

 

[Dennis Pagoulatos]

1080P is pretty sweet, even on a 120" screen it looks very nice. The key is the compression, however. D-VHS has a pretty high bit rate so it looks pretty fantastic at 1080I. Over the air Hi-Def at 1080I sometimes looks less than great, especially in fast moving action, because they're using a much lower bit rate on your typical Satellite HD broadcast. The point being that compression artifacting will show up no matter how high your resolution is.

I hope that whatever the pre-recorded disk standard becomes, it can deliver a low compression/ high bit rate video + uncompressed digital audio @ 1080P. I don't think anyone would have a right to complain at that point.

Of course, 1200+ lines would be even better, so Dan's point is correct, especially the bit about the studios withholding 1080P as if it's some "Holy Grail". It isn't, but it's way better than anything we have available to us now (short of buying a 35mm projector and reels)

-Dennis

 

[Jeff Kleist]

I saw Japanese HD once, the Tezuka museum brought one of their displays over when they did a mini exhibition at a con. The picture was noisy, but VERY impressive

 

[Lew Crippen]

You used to be able to watch Japanese HD at Narita. It seemed to me that every time I changed planes there, Sumo wrestling was being telecast.

Regardless of your position on the sport, the picture was very impressive indeed. This was well before HD telecasts in the States.

 

[Brian-W]

Technically yes, however to my knowlege the technology has been mostly used for outdoor and museum video walls, and I don't think there has bee nany consumer HD products until ATSC came about

Nope, incorrect.

Japan has had consumer OTA and satellite delivered HD for quite some time. HD Broadcasts began in 1992 (not 100% sure of the date), but market penetration wasn't high until the latter part of the 90's.

Their analog standard was referred to as 1125i or 1035i, although 1035i was the accurate display reference. While there would be 1125i in the vertical, only 1035 of those lines were picture. The rest stored sync, audio, etc. The analog display resolution was 1920x1035i. ATSC as well as the digital version in Japan is 1920x1080i. Consequently, the scan frequency for both is the same (33.75KHz).

Aside from Hi-Vision LD, there was W-VHS (precursor to D-VHS). Plus plenty of OTA and satellite receivers. Japan was also broadcasting in the mid-90's 8 hours of HD a day.

The Japanese have been enjoying HD World Cup events, Olympics, you name it for many many years now.

 

[Tom Pfarr]

I don't think I can process this information. DaViD Boulet
will actually buy a projector? Nahhhhhhhhhhh.

 

[Joshua_Y]

Just a question here...I am gettin an HDTV...now whenever these HD-DVD's come out...I will be able to watch them right...theres not gonna be any special cords or anything?

 

[DaViD Boulet]

I don't think I can process this information. DaViD Boulet
will actually buy a projector? Nahhhhhhhhhhh.

You cut me deep!

Really Tom...any day now I *will* buy a projector...very soon..coming up...

:b

Honestly the deal is that being poor (no $$ for a PJ) and not having a room ready where I can hang a screen have pretty much made it easy to wait and watch the technology improve.

I'm *so* happy with the look of the new HD2 machines...deep rich blacks and scaling so good it looks like HTPC without the PC (the new Sharp 1000 running off a stand-alone DVD player looks positively like HTPC...shockingly good!). But rainbows are an issue for me as is the lack of full HD res...

So if Sony wants to fix those 2 problems, and give me that silky-smooth LCOS fill factor...I can afford to wait a few months more

And when I *finally* do hang my 1920 x 1080 SXRD projector in my HT room you can always say you started it all...it was your 10HT that got me hooked on the idea (being the first watchable digital front projection system I had the chance to see!).

 

[Ed St. Clair]

I don't see where 1080p is the end all be all of resolutions. It is not 35 mm film resolution (which is higher still and was quite apparent with the theatrical runs of AToC and Spy Kids 2), and certainly not 70mm resolution.

Dan,
You 'might' be surprised to learn what the "true" resolution of film is 'at the screen' of your local multiplex.
With bulb wear, focus, & all, "true" (not 480p & all that up-convented 1080i stuff) HD is 'competitive' with the projected image quality of 35mm film.
35mm smokes 1080p, let alone 1080i.
However, who looks directly at a movie frame by frame?
With no sound, no less!

 

[Tom Pfarr]

From David:

And when I *finally* do hang my 1920 x 1080 SXRD projector in my HT room you can always say you started it all...it was your 10HT that got me hooked on the idea (being the first watchable digital front projection system I had the chance to see!).

I disavow all knowledge of any plan with foresight or afterthought that could be misconstrued to be of any sound mind.

However, if you get an SXRD you've got to invite me over! Oh forget that if you get anything that projects on even a bare wall invite me!.

TP

 

[Jean-Michel]

Dan,
You 'might' be surprised to learn what the "true" resolution of film is 'at the screen' of your local multiplex.
With bulb wear, focus, & all, "true" (not 480p & all that up-convented 1080i stuff) HD is 'competitive' with the projected image quality of 35mm film.
35mm smokes 1080p, let alone 1080i.
However, who looks directly at a movie frame by frame?
With no sound, no less!

That's true. The 35mm image as it looks on celluloid doesn't always give you the same quality when actually projected.

On this subject (sort of), I was going through old back issues of Sight and Sound recently and came across an issue from the late '70s discussing Japanese research in HD television. According to the article the 525-line resolution of NTSC television was chosen because it approximated the effective resolution of 16mm film, and the 1035-line resolution the Japanese were developing was chosen because it approximated the effective resolution of 35mm. Obviously there were other technical factors at work in those decisions but the article suggested that was a big part of why the standards ended up as they did. Anyone care to verify or refute this?

 

[DaViD Boulet]

However, if you get an SXRD you've got to invite me over! Oh forget that if you get anything that projects on even a bare wall invite me!.

You betcha.


BTW, add me to the list of people who think that subjectively 1080P might come close to the image quality we see in practice at the local movie house.

Of course...I'm not saying that this is "good enough". The absolute day of joy will come when we have IMAX 70MM + resolution in our living room

 

[Jeff Kleist]

Just a question here...I am gettin an HDTV...now whenever these HD-DVD's come out...I will be able to watch them right...theres not gonna be any special cords or anything?

Who knows what the interface will be? I'd look for a set that supports DVI/HDCP though

 

[Grant H]

That's why you get extended warrantees from Circuit City. That way when your HDTV with inferior connections breaks and they can't fix it, they'll have to replace it with a new one with the newest interface.

Still, there will be plenty of P.O.'d consumers if and when you can't get HD off a HD-DVD through component output. Then again, it's the price you pay for being an early adopter I suppose. I just hope if I need a new set due to connections by the time HD-DVD is a reality that they are a LOT cheaper. Mine was half what it cost originally, but I'd like to see them had for less than half of that. Not sure that will happen though, at least not with tube sets. (Their numbers are dwindling anyway) In 5 + years time I've seen an RCA 35" tube 4:3 model drop from $849 to $749 at Wal-Mart. Of course, now they call it a 36".
There's always the hope that Front Projection will get affordable and Plasmas will get cheaper with higher quality.