Why I haven't taken the plunge -yet. My take on all this. (1 Viewer)

[RAF]

Ouch! Thanks for that information. I just assumed that this would be the case! Related question: Does anyone know if the next generation HD-DVD players will include 480i over Digital out? I was told that the Blu-ray players will have this capability - which is important to me for legacy material. Otherwise the Oppo 970H is back in the picture, I guess.

Finally, let me reiterate that I'm an HD supporter all the way (if that isn't clear by now.) I've received a couple of e-mails asking why I'm against HD discs.



The fact that I didn't rush out the first day (like I usually do) doesn't mean that I don't support the medium. I certainly do, but I also don't feel an urgency here. "Not taking the plunge - yet" doesn't mean non-support for the technology. If anything is slowing down progress it's the ridiculous action on the part of the people involved with development to insist that two different formats come to market once again. The consumer suffers (like with Beta/VHS and SACD/DVD-A) since the average person doesn't know which way to turn. I'm certainly not an average person since I ended up with both Beta and VHS (still have a working machine for both formats!) and also separate SACD and DVD-A players (although the newer units play both formats.) As I said before - I'll have a HD-DVD and a Blu-ray unit side by side in my system. I've already reserved rack space for them. I just haven't decided yet which will be the first format I buy.

 

[Edwin-S]

This has nothing to do with HD video. I was looking at the construction photos of your HT room. I noticed that you had a window installed behind your screen. The window is below your deck, so it doesn't seem to have a lot of functional use. I'm curious as to why you installed a window, when it is covered by a blackout curtain. It seems like the window would introduce lighting problems into your HT, as well as providing a convenient entry point for theives. Do you use the room as a reading room as well as a HT? I'm just curious what your reasoning was for installing the window.

 

[RAF]

Good question and an easy one to answer, Edwin, before moving on with the topic at hand. Where I live the building code requires that all living spaces have a minimum number of square feet of windows for any given room. Only storerooms, closets, interior bathrooms and, I believe, garages are exempt from this requirement. My original intention was not to have a window at all, but my contractor explained the rule to me (I don't have the exact details of the ordinance in front of me but you get the idea.) The only wall that was available for the required windows happened to be right behind the screen. The other walls were either interior or completely under ground because of the grading of my property. As it is, you probably notice that the windows are almost at ground level and, as you correctly stated, under the deck. This has been absolutely no problem at all for a number of reasons. In the first place, there is never direct sunlight (thanks to the deck) and the windows are triple-insulated so sound and heat/cold are not an issue. I had always planned on the thick velvet curtain backdrop for the front of my HT and having these custom made drapes lined with blackout material was not a big deal at all. The result has exceeded my expectations. Not only is there absolutely no issue with light (in a darkened room on a sunny day you can see no light at all) but I got a couple of bonuses. The thick drape material has turned out to be excellent acoustically since it eliminates most if not all reverberations. Also, the fact that I can open the drapes and then open the window does give me an opportunity to air out the room if I desire. This second item really doesn't come into play very often since the room is HAC climate controlled.

I hope this explains why my window-less HT has windows. The Man made me do it.



We now return you to your friendly format wars....

 

[Rachael B]

Robert, kick yourself in the butt and buy an HD-A1, pronto, si? I don't see any reason to wait for a player that outputs 1080p. I don't think it matters where the progressiveness gets done. The only things my player is really slow about is unloading or loading a disc or changing the output resolution...not a factor in watching a film.

 

[GlennH]

Are there any issues with lack of bass management in the player? Early DVD-Audio capable DVD players like my Panny RP-91 couldn't do this, so unless you bought the ICBM from Outlaw Audio you couldn't get proper bass from the 6 analog outs. I would assume this is not an issue with the HD DVD player?

 

[Mike Williams]

I personally don't see any reason to buy a player that is already crippled compared to those that are coming right behind the current lot. I, too, am waiting, not necessarily for the format wars to be over, but at least for players that do what the medium is capable of doing.

 

[Steve Schaffer]

The HD-A1 does have bass management for it's 5.1 analog outputs. All speakers can be selected as Large or Small and you can tell it whether or not you have a subwoofer. Crossover can be set to 80, 100, or 120hz. It's a bit tricky at first as you get no test tones unless you select auto-test tone, and the sub tone is just plain wrong (way too weak). I've been able to get everything right using AVIA and the ratshack meter but it's a bit time consuming going back and forth into the setup menu.

The DVD+ 5.1 as decoded by the player and sent out of the analog outs is the best sound I've heard from my system (Harmon Kardon AVR-635 and midline Energy speakers with HSU STF-2 sub). So smooth and full and detailed.

 

[RAF]

Rachel,

Great to hear from you. We go way back to the days of $120 Criterion Boxes with Haber's commentary, right? How have you been, girl?



On the matter of jumping into a first gen HD-DVD player - believe me, even though I've stressed the desire to get a player with 1080p output that's not the major reason for my decision to wait a month or so. Heck, even with my beautiful 1080p capable HP 58" DLP set I'm still going to watch my Runco CL-710 for the big movie experience since it is an HD display, just not 1080p. 720/1080i source material (especially the uncompressed versions that will be available in these players) is a step up from the HD now coming over most TV sources. And the fact that I am using modern external processing even to the projector via my DVDO iScan VP-30 to feed a better 720p signal to the Runco (rather than relying on 5 year old internal scaling/deinterlacing technology in the projector) makes my current FP much more palatable. It's all the other things that I would like to see improved at the moment. Title selection, load time issues, etc. I don't want to return to the days of my Pioneer LV-8000 ½ minute or more spin ups!



If the Toshiba had 480i over HDMI (something I want to squeeze the best performance out of the thousands of SD DVDs I own) most of those other issues would pale by comparison and there would be a unit on the shelf already. And I would stop waiting for the forthcoming

 

[Rachael B]

Hola Robert! I'm stille rotten to the core, malo maximoso! Indeed, I go way back with LD. I stille remember the day in 1986 when I got my LD-838D and Clan Of The Cave Bear and The Rutles to play on it like it was yesterday. Wasn't it? Getting the Toshiba seems alot like that day to me. Well. I did warm up and stretch out with D-Theater.

Do you have to get up in the morning and hold your breath and hyperventilate and beg yourself not to buy a Toshiba? I know I would! It sounds like you're afraid to buy a Toshiba because that might push ya towards coveting a shiny new projector too. I've yet to own a FP. I ran cables for one through the ceiling when I built my house a few years back.

I don't care if my HD-A1 is bettered soon. I anticipate it'll be on my second system then and I'll double down. Or, maybe I'll have Blu-way too??? I haven't much strength to fight the temptation of HD products! Only the component video/HDMI flap gave me any pause. In some ways I'm a bigger audio-vidiot than you!

I think you're punishing yourself by not giving in to your bad self's desire to toshiba-size. Recuredos, de la, la, la, la, Gata loca!

P.S. ...an industrial 8000 takes 30 seconds, wow! I've had about 25 players, no industrial models though, and none were that slow! 60 second HD is a small price to pay, uno momento!

 

[JediFonger]

good post =).

well, for one thing, thank goodness i never started large VHS/DVD collections. another is that i'll be waiting for a good coupla years for cheaper players. i'm not THAT desperate for 1080p content. i know the goods flow downriver, all in good time... all in good time.

when 1080p comes out for the titles of the DVDs i already own like star wars, LOTR, matrix, indy, back to the future or oldies like chaplin collection, FW Murnau, Kurosawa, THEN i'll force myself to buy a player. otherwise, count me out of this =).

 

[Mark Zimmer]

Rachael, you slay me.

 

[Rachael B]

You're an easy audience Mark! If I start doing stand up again, will you and 100 of your favourtute clones come and clap?

 

[Mark Zimmer]

Absolutely.

 

[Dave Moritz]

I have been waiting for HD like many of use have been for awhile now. And at the begining I admit that I was very pro Blu-ray and even said I would not even entertain the idea of HD-DVD in my HT. While that was decision was premature at the time and after seeing HD-DVD for myself. I was impressed with what I saw especially after seeing how good Apollo 13 looked. I decided that maybe I would change my mind and actually buy a HD-DVD player and that maybe it would not be so teriable if HD-DVD won. The more I hear about problems with Toshiba's HD-DVD player the more I want to stay away from it. And as far as I know I have not heard about when Toshiba is going to fix these prolbems! I also have not heard anything about when 2nd generation HD-DVD player might be available?

Toshiba was hell bent on getting to market before Sony did and they paid the price for it. They ended up offering a player that was not ready and is riddled with flaws. This is not going to help HD-DVD gain acceptance and become the HD format that wins this format war. I recenly came to the conclusion that I would rather stick to my first plan. Which was to back Blu-ray and buy a player as soon as I can. As long as there are no masive problems like HD-DVD seems to have with its player. Sony's Blu-ray format should be able to avoid the same problems Toshiba has had by rushing product to market.

I however would like to see New Line Cinima join the Blu-ray supporters and offer there movies on Blu-ray, like LOTR trilogy. The main movies I really want to see in Blu-ray HD is LOTR, Star Wars, Matrix, Gladiator, X Men, Battlestar Galactica (New Series), Stargate, 007 movies, Indiana Jones and Star Trek just to mention a few. While some would say that there are not enough 1080p sets out there. And because of that 1080i is more than good enough. I saw that we will have plently of 1080p sets available here in the near future. And that there will be people that where ready to settle for 1080i, say I wish I had waited for that new 1080p set instead. And just watched the 1080p source on what I had and upgraded once 1080p was widely available. I realize that there is a big difference between compressed 1080i and uncompressed 1080i. I am not saying that 1080i can not look great and does not look great. Personally I would rather wait for 1080p that will offer a better picture than 1080i. Many people that have 100" screens and larger should really benafit from 1080p.

If HD-DVD wins the war and Blu-ray disapears, I would only hope that Toshiba works out every bug and makes HD-DVD as good as they claim it is. IMHO the problem with there players is a wake up call for Toshiba. If they dont fix them then I can see Sony's Blu-ray walking all over HD-DVD. And this is only going to happen if enough people adoubt HD and go out and buy HD movies on disc. This can allways go the way of DVD-A or SACD if both of these companies do not convice enough people of how much of an advantage HD gives the consumer at home. Another concern is on the audio side with Dolby's new digital formats. I would hope that they are alot better than Dolby Digital is. But as long as movies are being offered in DTS-HD and that format sounds great. Dolby then again becomes a mater of not mattering IMHO. Or should I have said Dolby just becomes secondary again? Dolby has been involved with many great products over the years and has affected the industry in a possitive way as well. So I know and accnowledge Dolby Labs for everything they have accomplished over the years. IMHO with the HD revolution on the horizon DTS comes into this new format with a better product. This is not to say that Dolby can not step up and offer something just as good or even offer something better. Koodos to Dolby if there new Dolby Digital Plus out performs DTS. Only time will tell once HD-DVD and Blu-ray HD disc's come out with both formats. So that that part can be not only decided by the consumer and also by compairing the two audio formats in the real world not just on paper.

I dont feel that a format war that last 12 -24 months will help ether HD format. IMHO most of your average consumers that are not really pasionate about HT. Will ether not spend the money on another exspensive format and any confusion will only translate into people staying away from ether format. HD offers the best picture quality ever offered but if people don't see the value in having that kind of quality in there homes nether format will survive!

 

[JediFonger]

i believe it's possible to go the way of DVD-Audio and SACD with one exception, studios will have a huge library of films released to HD-DVD and BR, but it'll become like LD =).

 

[Stan Rozenfeld]

Prices are certainly not like LD.

 

[Levesque]

With 1080i inverse telecine (Gennum VXP, Realta HQV), 1080i is easily put back in 1080p.

That's what I'm doing right now with a Sony Ruby and Gennum scaler. And since I was able to try a Blu-Ray pre-production player in 1080p, I was able to compare both "resolutions" and I wasn't able to see any differences between my HD-A1 player at 1080i converted to 1080p by my Gennum scaler and the "true" 1080p Blu-Ray player.

I think people are really confused about that part. There is no difference between those 2 when paired with good video processing. And that's on a 110" dia screen.

 

[JediFonger]

i thought LD's hovered from 30-40. ain't BR gonna be like that?

 

[TravisR]

The cheapest single disc LDs were between $30 and $40. If the movie was on two discs, you were probably paying about $60. And if it was Criterion, you were paying $100 to $125.

 

[Rachael B]

In the 80's I paid $20-$35 for most of my LD's. Later, it seemed that when LD didn't move mass market, most prices crept up to the $30-$40 you state. Also, 2 discs didn't automatically mean $60. It usually meant $40 by the 90's. Criterion CLV releases typically were either $40 or $50. The really high prices typically were for CAV sets that required more discs. There were expensive exceptions though. I really don't remember many Criterion sets over $100. I think all the DTS LD's were $50 without exception, without regard to 1 or 2 LD's in the package.

Myself, I got 20% off list prices from Ken Crane's, which later became DVD Planet. That's where most of my new LD's were bought.