Titan submersible imploded near the Titanic wreckage (1 Viewer)

[Alex...]

Titanic Tourist Submarine Goes Missing Off Newfoundland; Search And Rescue Mission Underway

A submersible that takes tourists on pricey deep-sea explorations of the Titanic has reportedly gone missing in the area of the wreck, which lies 400 miles off the coast of Newfoundland in 12,500 f…

deadline.com

 

[Tino]

That is probably not going to end well. Unfortunately.

 

[jayembee]

Banging heard in search for missing sub - US media

A tourist sub missing during a dive on the wreck of the Titanic has just over a day’s oxygen left.

www.bbc.com

 

[Malcolm R]

Sadly, it sounds like a tragic ending (from CNN):

Debris was "consistent with catastrophic loss of the pressure chamber," Coast Guard says​

The debris found on the sea floor was "consistent with the catastrophic loss of the pressure chamber," the Coast Guard said.

The remotely operated vehicle (ROV) found the tail cone of the Titan on the sea floor about 1,600 feet away from the bow of the Titanic and other debris nearby, according to Rear Adm. John Mauger, the First Coast Guard District commander.
The debris was analyzed by experts, he said, and the families of the passengers were notified.

“I can only imagine what this has been like for them and I hope that this discovery provides some solace during this difficult time," Mauger said.

 

[Chuck Mayer]

I feel terrible for the families, of course. The solace should be that they passed instantaneously (and without suffering) while attempting something amazing. Since this was announced, I've suspected this was the case (any other casualty [that kept the crew alive] would have resulted in communications or ease of location), as have my fellow former submarine buddies. As for the implosion, that happened on the way down. They passed within minutes of their last communication.

RIP.

 

[LeoA]

Far less terrifying than the alternative at least.

The navy investigation into the sinking of the USS Thresher, the first of two USN nuclear submarine losses during the 1960's, estimated that the implosion took 0.1 seconds. Far too quick for our brains to even register something's happening.

While the Thresher's crew sadly knew it was coming and had been fighting to save the boat as it continued an uncontrolled descent, the 5 people on this submersible likely never had a clue that there was even a problem since the catastrophic failure would've followed instantly.

It's not much solace for their friends and families, but at least they haven't been trapped for 90 some hours in terror, freezing temperatures, struggling for air, etc.

 

[Nelson Au]

I’m sure some members are aware of the Titan submersible that set off on a dive to the Titanic wreck last Sunday. One hour and 45 minutes into the dive, communication was lost and there’s been an all out search for the craft. It was reported today at the news conference that debris was spotted on the sea floor 1600 feet off the bow of the Titanic. It appears to have suffered a catastrophic failure. The nose of the vessel was found and some distance away the tail end was found that confirmed the wreckage is the Titan.

I just started this thread because it’s sad news and also it was a fascinating story. I had not realized the company that did this dive was using an experimental that was not certified for a dive that deep. And the tragic loss of the 5 people inside it. At noon today, I watched the live ABC new coverage of the press conference, afterwards, it was interesting that ABC got Bob Ballard and James Cameron on to comment. What was fascinating was Ballard us not opposed to people who want to see the wreck, but that they should leave the site under turned. Cameron‘s comments struck me in that he saw a similarity in both tragedies. The captain of the Titanic was warned of ice ahead, yet he maintained his speed. The people who do these dives to the Titanic with paying customers ignored warnings that the carbon fiber hull of the submersible showed signs of fatigue after a few dives. Cameron felt it was a flawed use of materials and not a proven material that can tolerate the repeated pressure of the cycles of the dive and coming back up to the surface.

5 aboard Titanic tourist submersible are dead after 'catastrophic implosion' — Los Angeles Times

The five passengers on a sub that vanished on a trip to explore the Titanic wreckage have died after a catastrophic implosion, U.S. Coast Guard says.

apple.news

 

[Reed Grele]

I just saw a Robert Ballard interview. He as much said that this has been the first catastrophic implosion since 1960 when deep sea submersibles were first designed. It is very sad that this had to happen, but hopefully some good will come out of it in that new regulations and specifications for deep sea submersibles like this one will be enacted. Evidently carbon fiber material is no match for titanium or steel. Condolences to the family members of those lost forever in the darkness of the deep sea.

 

[Museum Pieces]

Here's a really terrific interview with James Cameron about this.

 

[Edwin-S]

The Titanic still claiming victims 111 years later. RIP

I'm certain the lawsuits will be starting soon.

 

[Nelson Au]

Thanks Skylar, that’s the interview I saw earlier today.

The captain of the submersible is Stockton Rush who is also the founder of the Oceangate company, it turns out his wife is the great great granddaughter of the Straus family who died on the Titanic.

 

[Alex...]

 

[Dennis Nicholls]

The glass window was only certified for half the depth they were going down to the Titanic. It will be interesting to see if that was the failure or that of the carbon-fiber cylinder.

 

[questrider]

Here's the Ballard interview that preceded Cameron's:

 

[Jack P]

This is a tragedy. P.H. Nargeleot, one of the victims, has been diving the Titanic wreck since 1987 and had more experience going down there than anyone else. It's a monstrous loss and a sobering reminder that even though the wreck has been dived on safely for more than 35 years, there is always an element of risk and if this company did indeed cut corners in the design of their sub, that will have to be investigated and standards will need to be upgraded so that ANY future dive to a depth that great won't suffer the same fate as these five did.

I confess, I am not a great admirer of Robert Ballard. I respect the fact he found the ship, but from the beginning he has largely adopted a sanctimonious aura about the wreck in regard to artifact preservation that I as a historian have found appalling on all levels, and that included spreading some falsehoods about the expeditions P.H. Nargeleot was part of in 1987 and in the 90s that helped bring thousands of items back from the ocean floor so that future generations could see them with their own eyes (and thus be cured of any thought that they might want to take the risk of going down to the bottom of the sea themselves), like the "Big Piece" that was brought up in 1998. That Ballard still hasn't learned to accept reality on the point of artifact retrieval after all these decades is one of many things I find dislikable about the man because his concepts of historical preservation would cause important things to be lost forever in the name of a dubious sanctimony and he thinks it's somehow more improper to see salvaged and restored artifacts in a museum setting than doing the kind of dangerous tourist stunt to "just look" that cost these people their lives.

Since most of the important items from the debris field have been retrieved, and since Cameron's expeditions pretty much penetrated as far inside the wreck as we're capable of seeing, I admit the need to dive down there has reached a point of diminished return. But if dives are to continue then for the sake of the five who were lost, we should make sure something like that never happens again.

God's blessings to their families.

 

[Dave Moritz]

I'm certain the lawsuits will be starting soon.

Don't see any lawsuits coming from this tragedy as anyone who goes on that submersible must sign a waiver stating that because of the risk factor that they acknowledge there is a chance of death.

 

[LeoA]

I thought I recognized that name from earlier expeditions like when Discovery Channel aired their "Titanic Live" special 25 years ago when they weren't a reality tv channel. He was a fixture on several of those Discovery funded dives to the wreck. Very sad to see him and the others lose their life while diving to the Titanic.

I do however tend to agree with Ballard's hands off approach in regard to the wreck itself. Some silly things were done by some of these teams in the past like landing their submersibles on Titanic's fragile deckhouse in years gone by when the superstructure of Titanic's forward half was in much better shape, when deploying a ROV to explore her interior.

But there's a lot to what you said. When done properly, retrieving artifacts allows future generations to see them and learn the ship's story and maybe learn some more such as a little about the once thriving ocean liner trade that virtually went extinct with the rise of the jetliner.

And as much as we don't like it, Titanic herself is fast disappearing. She's not in an environment like some other famous wrecks like the USS Yorktown off Midway Island are, where they're in a virtual state of suspended animation.

I'm okay with it as long as the salvaged artifacts are properly cared for and don't become another Alvin Clark, USS Ticonderoga, USS Royal Savage, and so on where they'd of been safer at the bottom for future generations than having been raised.

What's really despicable are the situations wrecks like HMS Prince of Wales, HMS Repulse, USS Houston. HMAS Perth, HMS Exeter, HMS Electra, HMS Jupiter, HNLMS Java, HMS Encounter, HNLMS De Ruyter, HNLMS Kortenaer, HNLMS Java, IJN Kuma, and many others have faced. While a story for another thread, I now always worry when a new WWII discovery is announced, crossing my fingers that it's in deep water where it will remain safe and undisturbed both for preservation and because they're the resting place for men that are still remembered by friends and family.

 

[Walter Kittel]

I'm no lawyer, but if the plaintiffs can establish gross negligence by OceanGate Expeditions, then I believe the presence of waivers will not be a legal defense for the company conducting the tours.

Shame about the lives lost. Condolences to their families and friends.

- Walter.

 

[Edwin-S]

Don't see any lawsuits coming from this tragedy as anyone who goes on that submersible must sign a waiver stating that because of the risk factor that they acknowledge there is a chance of death.

Those waivers are meaningless with the information coming out about the problems and issues that this submersible was having. Experimental or not, the company has a fiduciary responsibility to ensure the safety of its customers. The people who died may have signed those waivers, but none of their family members did. You can bet that they are long g up lawyers for a suit after being made aware of the fundamental problems with Oceangate's tub.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

It is very sad that this had to happen, but hopefully some good will come out of it in that new regulations and specifications for deep sea submersibles like this one will be enacted.

From what I understand, regulations and specifications for deep sea submersibles to prevent tragedies like this already exist. But OceanGate opted not to adhere to them, operating the Titan as an "unclassed" vessel.

Here is what OceanGate put on its website about the matter:

"Most major marine operators require that chartered vessels are 'classed' by an independent group such as the American Bureau of Shipping (ABS), DNV/GL, Lloyd’s Register, or one of the many others. These groups have assembled very detailed standards for classing everything from oil tankers to auxiliary ship equipment like Remotely Operated Vehicles (ROVs). Many of these standards are based on industry practice or covered by regulations such as reserve buoyancy, the number of life rafts, the types of materials that can be used on a hull, etc.

"Classing assures ship owners, insurers, and regulators that vessels are designed, constructed and inspected to accepted standards. Classing may be effective at filtering out unsatisfactory designers and builders, but the established standards do little to weed out subpar vessel operators – because classing agencies only focus on validating the physical vessel. They do not ensure that operators adhere to proper operating procedures and decision-making processes – two areas that are much more important for mitigating risks at sea. The vast majority of marine (and aviation) accidents are a result of operator error, not mechanical failure. As a result, simply focusing on classing the vessel does not address the operational risks. Maintaining high-level operational safety requires constant, committed effort and a focused corporate culture – two things that OceanGate takes very seriously and that are not assessed during classification.

"When OceanGate was founded the goal was to pursue the highest reasonable level of innovation in the design and operation of manned submersibles. By definition, innovation is outside of an already accepted system. However, this does not mean that OceanGate does meet standards where they apply, but it does mean that innovation often falls outside of the existing industry paradigm.

"While classing agencies are willing to pursue the certification of new and innovative designs and ideas, they often have a multi-year approval cycle due to a lack of pre-existing standards, especially, for example, in the case of many of OceanGate’s innovations, such as carbon fiber pressure vessels and a real-time (RTM) hull health monitoring system. Bringing an outside entity up to speed on every innovation before it is put into real-world testing is anathema to rapid innovation. For example, Space X, Blue Origin and Virgin Galactic all rely on experienced inside experts to oversee the daily operations, testing, and validation versus bringing in outsiders who need to first be educated before being qualified to ‘validate’ any innovations."​

Don't see any lawsuits coming from this tragedy as anyone who goes on that submersible must sign a waiver stating that because of the risk factor that they acknowledge there is a chance of death.

While OceanGate will undoubtedly use those waivers as a defense, we're talking about the families of four billionaires here. They'll have the best lawyers available to find ways around those waivers.