"The Alamo"s Status? (2 Viewers)

[Angelo Colombus]

AMC did a broadcast early this year which was the first time I saw the movie in HD and that looked good and I did see a few minutes of the MGM HD & HDNet showings and the MGM looked a little less sharp. With all the showings lately I hope that could spark the drive to save the movie.

 

[OliverK]

AMC did a broadcast early this year which was the first time I saw the movie in HD and that looked good and I did see a few minutes of the MGM HD & HDNet showings and the MGM looked a little less sharp.

Very good, so AMC may be another option. MGM HD is very low bitrate and therefore filtered more than the HDnet version that by itself is not as good as it could have been some time ago as HDnet reduced the bitrate by about 25%. Unfortunately both MGM HD and HDnet still stick to MPEG 2 via most providers, H264 or even H265 would yield much better results at the same bitrate.

With all the showings lately I hope that could spark the drive to save the movie.

It seems that Mr. Barber and his team did their best not to let this happen so I am not sure that this will be the effect of the screenings, it feels more like "this is all you will get, take it or leave it".

 

[RolandL]

Very good, so AMC may be another option. MGM HD is very low bitrate and therefore filtered more than the HDnet version that by itself is not as good as it could have been some time ago as HDnet reduced the bitrate by about 25%. Unfortunately both MGM HD and HDnet still stick to MPEG 2 via most providers, H264 or even H265 would yield much better results at the same bitrate.

It seems that Mr. Barber and his team did their best not to let this happen so I am not sure that this will be the effect of the screenings, it feels more like "this is all you will get, take it or leave it".

AMC does have a lot of commercials so I never watch a movie on that channel.

What we get for The Alamo, Greatest Story Ever Told and Hawaii from MGM is not going to get any better.

 

[Tom St Jones]

Yeah, I don't quite get RAH's criticism. Perhaps, more are enlightened that this longer version of the film isn't available in HD. I, for one, couldn't remember from my last TCM viewing and now it's confirmed. I'm hopeful, fans of this film will speak out further about this issue.

Though Mr. Harris might have meant it as sarcasm (one can't always tell, just sayin) but I thought RAH was just venting a bit, if somewhat more bitterly than usual. If so, it's understandable. To a world-class preservationist as Mr. Harris, one with a great love for classic film, this film could well be "the one that got away" - the big one he was oh so close to finally getting to do, but alas, was kept from saving her by forces beyond his control... As for TCM, they may not be helping things by showing the extended "Alamo" as is, but it's not like they have access to a fully-restored version.
Sure would be nice if MGM's recent press would inspire TimeWarner, Turner or someone to put in a bid to buy out The Lion. Seems like anything would be an improvement vs. the current situation.

 

[TonyD]

I put this on from my dvr just to see what I had and when I saw no intro from Ben or Robert I knew it was going to be trouble.
Also the Dtv guide only listed this as LB without the HD logo in the info guide.

Was a disspointment to see how ugly this looked but at least I have this 3:23 long version to look at if I want.

As for this longer version is there anything added in that I should keep an eye on or be aware of?

 

[davidmatychuk]

I put this on from my dvr just to see what I had and when I saw no intro from Ben or Robert I knew it was going to be trouble.
Also the Dtv guide only listed this as LB without the HD logo in the info guide.

Was a disspointment to see how ugly this looked but at least I have this 3:23 long version to look at if I want.

As for this longer version is there anything added in that I should keep an eye on or be aware of?

Here's the Chapter list from the laserdisc version, with changes in boldface.

 

[OliverK]

AMC does have a lot of commercials so I never watch a movie on that channel.

What we get for The Alamo, Greatest Story Ever Told and Hawaii from MGM is not going to get any better.

Only an option then if one was able to record and skip commercals.

Actually I think that if released on Blu-ray The Alamo would look a lot better than TGSET and also better than Hawaii - not that this was much of an accomplishment...

 

[usrunnr]

This is slightly off-topic, but I wanted to comment on "The Alamo" music score by Dimiti Tiomkin, which I think is one of the finest film scores ever written. I have the Columbia/Legacy CD with 23 tracks, some of which are taken directly from the film soundtrack with dialogue. It brings back many fond young memories of this film. About the time the film came out, I happened to attend a concert by Mahalia Jackson, the incomparable gospel and jazz singer. At one point during the concert Miss Jackson stopped to comment on the film and its beautiful music, especially "The Green Leaves of Summer" which she then proceeded to sing in such an emotional and evocative way that I have never forgotten it.

 

[Darby67]

Here's the Chapter list from the laserdisc version, with changes in boldface.

View attachment 32624

David:

Thank you so much for posting the chapter list from the laserdisc with the changes in boldface; it is a very useful resource.

 

[70 Millman]

This is slightly off-topic, but I wanted to comment on "The Alamo" music score by Dimiti Tiomkin, which I think is one of the finest film scores ever written. I have the Columbia/Legacy CD with 23 tracks, some of which are taken directly from the film soundtrack with dialogue. It brings back many fond young memories of this film. About the time the film came out, I happened to attend a concert by Mahalia Jackson, the incomparable gospel and jazz singer. At one point during the concert Miss Jackson stopped to comment on the film and its beautiful music, especially "The Green Leaves of Summer" which she then proceeded to sing in such an emotional and evocative way that I have never forgotten it.

I heartily agree. As an orchestral composer myself I too hold Dimitri Tiomkin's score score for "The Alamo" as one of the finest ever. It is one reason why I am so in love with this film. It makes everything work and one reason I want a Bluray of this film is to have the sound be DTS MA. There is a good re-recording of the score by Nic Raine and the Prague Symphony Orchestra from Tadlow that matches most of the tempos and incidental flourishes of the original. In the cut version of the film there are some great musical cues missing, such as when a patrol gets chased by a squadron of lancers. Excellent action scene too that, like all in this film.

 

[Matt Hough]

"The Green Leaves of Summer" would certainly have been my pick for the best Song Oscar in 1960 rather than the eventual winner "Never on Sunday."

 

[Tom St Jones]

"The Green Leaves of Summer" would certainly have been my pick for the best Song Oscar in 1960 rather than the eventual winner "Never on Sunday."

Greatness is often not recognised in its time.
"Never on Sunday" is fine (esp. Herb Alpert's version), but "Green Leaves of Summer".probably should have taken the statuette.. While I believe being nominated says you deserved the award (regardless if you win or not), winning is obviously REAL recognition, a permanent spot in history.

 

[Stephen_J_H]

Just pulled up the TCM airing on my DVR, and it's a faded, smeary mess. The audio track is also run through old school TV dynamic range control, meaning an abundance of hiss in quieter passages.

 

[OliverK]

I heartily agree. As an orchestral composer myself I too hold Dimitri Tiomkin's score score for "The Alamo" as one of the finest ever. It is one reason why I am so in love with this film. It makes everything work and one reason I want a Bluray of this film is to have the sound be DTS MA. There is a good re-recording of the score by Nic Raine and the Prague Symphony Orchestra from Tadlow that matches most of the tempos and incidental flourishes of the original. In the cut version of the film there are some great musical cues missing, such as when a patrol gets chased by a squadron of lancers. Excellent action scene too that, like all in this film.

This for me is maybe his most memorable film score and he should have gotten an oscar for it.
I say that as somebody who is not a fan of all of his scores, indeed I find his score for Fall of the Roman Empire shrill and repetitive overall although it has its moments.

What I feel is getting a bit of a short thrift and this is related directly to the way we can enjoy The Alamo is the cinematography. This must be the best looking movie with John Wayne and it certainly is also one of the best looking Todd-AO movies, it looks magnificent. Now if we had a Blu-ray or UHD Blu-ray that would show us the cinematography in all its glory...

 

[Paul Rossen]

This for me is maybe his most memorable film score and he should have gotten an oscar for it.
I say that as somebody who is not a fan of all of his scores, indeed I find his score for Fall of the Roman Empire shrill and repetitive overall although it has its moments.

What I feel is getting a bit of a short thrift and this is related directly to the way we can enjoy The Alamo is the cinematography. This must be the best looking movie with John Wayne and it certainly is also one of the best looking Todd-AO movies, it looks magnificent. Now if we had a Blu-ray or UHD Blu-ray that would show us the cinematography in all its glory...

Tiomkin's The Alamo is a really good score and my favorite from his long and storied career.

That said I believe that Alex North's Spartacus should have been the pick of a really good year in film music.

Exodus...winner
The Magnificent Seven
Pyscho...not even nominated

Agree on Fall of the Roman Empire. Perhaps my most disappioning score of all time.

 

[mjgardenia]

"The Green Leaves of Summer" would certainly have been my pick for the best Song Oscar in 1960 rather than the eventual winner "Never on Sunday."

Hi Matt,

So many beautiful movie themes that year but GLOS certainly is one that is forgotten. The Brothers Four did a beautiful rendition of it and I was able to find it on karaoke to record with my less than stellar singing voice myself.

 

[mjgardenia]

Just pulled up the TCM airing on my DVR, and it's a faded, smeary mess. The audio track is also run through old school TV dynamic range control, meaning an abundance of hiss in quieter passages.

Waited for years for this to reappear on TCM. A terrible pan and scan was on a premium movie station a while back. The print was acceptable and I transferred it onto dvd-r. I can imagine what a restoration would look like but until that becomes a project or even just remastered for Blu ray, this will do. The audio was quite spacious.

 

[Robert Harris]

"The Green Leaves of Summer" would certainly have been my pick for the best Song Oscar in 1960 rather than the eventual winner "Never on Sunday."

I'm told that Mr. Hairston, who spent much of his life saving Negro spirituals, also did a recording of Green Leaves.

Unfortunately, if it survives, it's probably in an MGM vault with full blown vinegar syndrome.

I'm speaking of the actor who played Mr. Widmark's slave.

 

[davidmatychuk]

"The Green Leaves of Summer" would certainly have been my pick for the best Song Oscar in 1960 rather than the eventual winner "Never on Sunday."

"The Green Leaves Of Summer" is so evocative and memorable, and it was such an instant classic, that I don't doubt that some Oscar voters thought it was just some old song adapted for the film. Also, considering that Quentin Tarantino thought enough of the song to use it in "Inglorious Basterds", perhaps he might like to weigh in passionately on the whole "Alamo" restoration issue. Maybe his friend Harvey Weinstein might have a loud, angry opinion on the matter too. That I'd like to see.

 

[Mikew21]

The alamo situation seems to be going on and on. Hasn't anyone got the sense to see(Mgm) that a re release would be hugely popular and that a lot of people would buy it?.