General Discussion SONY removing 1,000+ seasons of purchased Discovery content from Playstation video libraries. (1 Viewer)

[DaveF]

Prior cases of streaming / downloadable content being removed from services have to me been inconsequential. They looked liked weird one-offs or flukes or perhaps user error. With this Sony situation, I was looking for similar reasons to dismiss it out of hand. But from the very limited reporting, I can't find it. This looks substantial. A major company has unilaterally deleted large amounts of material it sold to customers. I'm really surprised.

I expect will be a class-action lawsuit. Which will take years to play out.

All that, I still have no concern about my movies from MoviesAnywhere or Apple being deleted and made inaccessible to me. I buy some discs (less than ten annually). I redeem their digital codes. I expect to stop buying discs and go solely digital at some point in the next couple years. But mainly I watch streaming subscription services.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

A major company has unilaterally deleted large amounts of material it sold to customers. I'm really surprised.

I expect will be a class-action lawsuit. Which will take years to play out.

I can’t imagine a lawsuit succeeding because the fine print states that you are purchasing a revocable digital license to access content. The fine print should cover the action. Consumers might not be pleased but it is what it is.

It also appears to be the kind of content that has limited appeal, sold in small volumes, and mostly wasn’t available on physical media, so I don’t think a “disc vs digital” discussion in this particular case yields much insight; you can’t buy a disc that doesn’t exist so opinions that discs are better wind up being irrelevant to this specific situation.

I do have to wonder just how many people are rewatching low budget Discovery reality TV content purchased years ago. I could be wrong, of course, but it doesn’t seem like it’s going to affect a huge number of people relative to the total size of the entire streaming ecosystem.

Subscription streaming is a $30 billion a year business; digital purchases are a $2 billion a year business. Buying digital copies is almost as niche as buying discs ($1.5 billion a year).

 

[Worth]

There are no slam dunks because yesterday I threw away my Basic Instinct Blu-ray because it wouldn’t play on any of my players.

It's time to start collecting film prints.

 

[TravisR]

I can’t imagine a lawsuit succeeding because the fine print states that you are purchasing a revocable digital license to access content. The fine print should cover the action. Consumers might not be pleased but it is what it is.

Agreed that it is what it is but I also think it's an indefensibly scummy move on Sony's part. Whatever disclaimers their lawyers had them put on and whether it affects one person or a billion, no one buys something and expects the company that sold it to you to say "Nevermind, you don't have it anymore" a few years down the line.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Agreed that it is what it is but I also think it's an indefensibly scummy move on Sony's part. Whatever disclaimers their lawyers had them put on and whether it affects one person or a billion, no one buys something and expects the company that sold it to you to say "Nevermind, you don't have it anymore" a few years down the line.

Do we know for sure that it’s entirely Sony’s fault? Any possibility that Discovery would not continue making the license for the content available? I’m not sure how to assign blame to which side but I wholeheartedly agree it’s not good for the consumer.

There are too many digital platforms in my opinion. As an example, and not to ignite a disc vs digital thing, but discs and their players are standardized - a DVD is a DVD which plays in DVD players. Whether it’s a disc made by Warner or Paramount, or a player made by Sony or Panasonic, or either sold by Amazon or Walmart, it had to meet the same specifications. There’s no equivalent in digital so consumers wishing to purchase rather than subscribe have to navigate a choose your own adventure labyrinth of storefronts and vendors instead of there being one main storefront and app that’s universally accessible on all platforms. It’s sold to us as consumer choice as a benefit but it’s not - it’s an unwieldy system where content providers have to provide multiple copies of the same thing to a variety of vendors under a variety of agreements instead of just delivering one product that was platform agnostic that all users had equal access to.

I think a lot of digital customers who are regular purchasers have figured out that something like Vudu and iTunes, which work on multiple kinds of hardware, are better than things like the PlayStation store that only works on a PlayStation, but it’s counterproductive to a healthy industry that these poor options even exist.

 

[TravisR]

Do we know for sure that it’s entirely Sony’s fault? Any possibility that Discovery would not continue making the license for the content available? I’m not sure how to assign blame to which side but I wholeheartedly agree it’s not good for the consumer.

Fair point. Whether it's Sony or if it's Discovery, whoever made the decision that took the shows away from people who bought them is the bad guy.

 

[Jesse Skeen]

With some of the shows that have been available for purchase, I’ve wondered how many people actually bought them and how practical it’ll be to keep them online for eternity. Vudu used to have tons of free episodes of “disposable” shows, I got all of them when they were out and periodically check to make sure they’re still viewable.

And yes, there’s been plenty of fine print telling you that these can be taken offline at any time for any reason, which is why I’ve never fully trusted this model to begin with. In this case the least they should do is refund all purchases even if they aren’t legally obligated to.

 

[Carl David]

Prior cases of streaming / downloadable content being removed from services have to me been inconsequential. They looked liked weird one-offs or flukes or perhaps user error. With this Sony situation, I was looking for similar reasons to dismiss it out of hand. But from the very limited reporting, I can't find it. This looks substantial. A major company has unilaterally deleted large amounts of material it sold to customers. I'm really surprised.

I expect will be a class-action lawsuit. Which will take years to play out.

All that, I still have no concern about my movies from MoviesAnywhere or Apple being deleted and made inaccessible to me. I buy some discs (less than ten annually). I redeem their digital codes. I expect to stop buying discs and go solely digital at some point in the next couple years. But mainly I watch streaming subscription services.

Expect more of it.

The streaming industry should start to show cracks of a breaking infrastructure.

All the major studios who own the rights to most major movies have licensed them out previously to other streaming companies on the hope/assumption the market will get very big and that consumers will become reliant on it for their media content and therefore pay a premium eventually for doing so.

I have not been privy to or seen any licensing agreements between the studios such as Paramount & Warner Bros. and the platforms such as Amazon & Apple etc.

However, I am almost certain there will be clauses in there that states the studios can pull out of any agreement at any time thus leaving the streaming platforms with a sudden loss of content to provide their customers at a future date should the studios exercise that power.

As an absolute minimum those agreements will have clauses giving the studios power to "pull the plug" so to speak after a certain period such as 3 or 5 years etc.

I am certain of this because this is what any sensible average businessman would do. There is no way the studios are going to give the streaming companies too much control on what movies they can sell for an indefinite period especially when they know that at some point they can do so themselves.

Not unless the platforms pay big big money for doing so.

We know that has not happened yet because of the cheap pricing streaming has so far shown us.

My view on the streaming industry has always been the studios will do it themselves eventually should the business model be profitable enough.

Amazon & Apple are just guinea pigs as far as I am concerned.

In relation to a class-action lawsuit the consumers will not win.

Sony PlayStation terms and conditions will have some small-print (like all companies offering digital downloaded movies) inserted somewhere in its 100 pages that they reserve the right to remove any services at any future date subject to any changes etc.

There will also be wording to the effect that any movie downloads:

"are not in any way owned by the customer and we reserve the right to prevent access to any downloaded movie content should Sony deem it necessary" etc.

To think otherwise is just stupid and naive.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Expect more of it.

The streaming industry should start to show cracks of a breaking infrastructure.

All the major studios who own the rights to most major movies have licensed them out previously to other streaming companies on the hope/assumption the market will get very big and that consumers will become reliant on it for their media content and therefore pay a premium eventually for doing so.

I have not been privy to or seen any licensing agreements between the studios such as Paramount & Warner Bros. and the platforms such as Amazon & Apple etc.

However, I am almost certain there will be clauses in there that states the studios can pull out of any agreement at any time thus leaving the streaming platforms with a sudden loss of content to provide their customers at a future date should the studios exercise that power.

As an absolute minimum those agreements will have clauses giving the studios power to "pull the plug" so to speak after a certain period such as 3 or 5 years etc.

I am certain of this because this is what any sensible average businessman would do. There is no way the studios are going to give the streaming companies too much control on what movies they can sell for an indefinite period especially when they know that at some point they can do so themselves.

Not unless the platforms pay big big money for doing so.

We know that has not happened yet because of the cheap pricing streaming has so far shown us.

My view on the streaming industry has always been the studios will do it themselves eventually should the business model be profitable enough.

Amazon & Apple are just guinea pigs as far as I am concerned.

In relation to a class-action lawsuit the consumers will not win.

Sony PlayStation terms and conditions will have some small-print (like all companies offering digital downloaded movies) inserted somewhere in its 100 pages that they reserve the right to remove any services at any future date subject to any changes etc.

There will also be wording to the effect that any movie downloads:

"are not in any way owned by the customer and we reserve the right to prevent access to any downloaded movie content should Sony deem it necessary" etc.

To think otherwise is just stupid and naive.

Actually, technically/legally speaking, that applies to physical media too -- just that it's much harder for the studios to try pulling the plug on your discs is all...

Also, it sounds almost like you're one of the usual folks who don't differentiate (enough) between digital purchases/rentals and subscription streaming in how you're thinking/talking about all this... not that you're necessarily wrong (at least) in the birdseye view of all this...

_Man_

 

[Dave Moritz]

While my focus is on physical media with discs still offering a slightly superior product despite the general public supporting streaming. I do have a number of streaming subscriptions and I have a number of movie titles I have purchased digitally. The last 4 -5 months or so I have only been buying physical media and the only digital content has been via digital codes. Considering that what happened with Sony could happen with another streaming service it is concerning. There are movies I would buy via digital but this may make me reconsider doing so even if the risk is slim. I know that streaming for me looks good for me as I have a very good internet connection but many in rural areas are not so lucky. IMHO streaming/digital looks good and sounds good but for the time being again IMHO disc still offers more than digital. We all take some for of risk buying content even on disc as there is that risk a disc might stop playing. So yes there is a risk ether way with disc or digital. That being said fine print or not it is sad that those who paid money for content could not be allowed to keep the ability to watch that content with the content being discontinued. It is what it is but this is the world we live in where we have to accept the possibility our digital content online can be taken over content licensing issues. I know of one source that can deliver bit for bit digitally to the disc which is Kaleidescape. Moving forward each person must decide for themselves if they want to continue to make digital purchases or not. While my purchases will be a fraction of what they have been in the past I most likely will still pick up a title here and there on sale.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

I'm coming to the conclusion that what's best is to have *both* physical media *and* digital ownership if/whenever possible (at least for what matters enough to me) -- and if one's up-to-the-task, probably also rip one's discs for local streaming/archive/backup if you really want to safeguard your ownership/collection as much as possible, heh. I suppose some might also buy multiple copies of discs, particularly for the most cherished parts of their collection.

One thing. I get the feeling 4K discs are gonna be less reliable/durable than BDs, so... all the more reason for contingency plan(s) for those... though a good BD (or maybe 4K digital) may often serve plenty well enough for that.

I haven't (meaningfully) done the ripping part myself (though I do have a handful accidentally duplicated discs on top of the usual upgrade redips) -- doing it for music CDs was one thing, but for HQ video discs is a whole other thing I don't really wanna tackle...

And with over 3K discs in my collection (and limited storage space here in NYC), hard to justify keeping backup copy discs (though I may do just that in some cases w/ the old BDs, if not also already included w/ the 4K disc release)...

_Man_

 

[Sam Posten]

A very interesting, if legally tenuous, point:

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

A major company has unilaterally deleted large amounts of material it sold to customers. I'm really surprised.

I expect will be a class-action lawsuit. Which will take years to play out.

It's worth noting that Sony previously pulled the same bait and switch with "purchased" StudioCanal content. They evidently incurred no legal repercussions that would have dissuaded them from doing it again.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

It's worth noting that Sony previously pulled the same bait and switch with "purchased" StudioCanal content. They evidently incurred no legal repercussions that would have dissuaded them from doing it again.

That no doubt emboldened them... as will this some more (probably both for them and other studios, et al) if not met w/ any significant pushback/backlash...

_Man_

 

[DaveF]

Not being removed.

Discovery shows you’ve bought on PlayStation actually won’t be taken away

You can keep watching those MythBusters episodes you bought.

www.theverge.com

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Not being removed.

Discovery shows you’ve bought on PlayStation actually won’t be taken away

You can keep watching those MythBusters episodes you bought.

www.theverge.com

I don’t even know what words to use for the article’s conclusion that people should buy discs over digital, when the show they use as an example wasn’t fully released on disc and the sporadic releases that were made on physical media went out of print ages ago and aren’t readily available. You can’t buy a product that doesn’t exist. It’s disingenuous clickbait provocation.

If anything, I think this whole situation speaks more to the idea that it matters where one makes digital purchases. The PlayStation store is a restrictive walled garden that doesn’t allow purchases to be played on a variety of devices, with a limited consumer base, and relatively unimportant to the company’s business plan. Better, in my opinion, to make purchases from a storefront like Apple/iTunes or Vudu that work on a variety of devices, and whose parent companies are more invested in maintaining digital storefronts. I don’t think this situation reflects poorly on the overall concept of streaming or digital purchases; I think it reflects poorly on the PlayStation Store as the place to make those purchases.

 

[JohnRice]

I don’t even know what words to use for the article’s conclusion that people should buy discs over digital, when the show they use as an example wasn’t fully released on disc and the sporadic releases that were made on physical media went out of print ages ago and aren’t readily available. You can’t buy a product that doesn’t exist. It’s disingenuous clickbait provocation.

If anything, I think this whole situation speaks more to the idea that it matters where one makes digital purchases. The PlayStation store is a restrictive walled garden that doesn’t allow purchases to be played on a variety of devices, with a limited consumer base, and relatively unimportant to the company’s business plan. Better, in my opinion, to make purchases from a storefront like Apple/iTunes or Vudu that work on a variety of devices, and whose parent companies are more invested in maintaining digital storefronts. I don’t think this situation reflects poorly on the overall concept of streaming or digital purchases; I think it reflects poorly on the PlayStation Store as the place to make those purchases.

Yep. Buy your digital content from the major sellers, like Apple, and try to only buy stuff that is part of Movies Anywhere.

 

[Scott Merryfield]

Yep. Buy your digital content from the major sellers, like Apple, and try to only buy stuff that is part of Movies Anywhere.

Definitely agree with the first point. Unfortunately, though, there is so much material that is not part of Movies Anywhere (Paramount, Lionsgate, Arrow, most TV shows, etc) that the 2nd point is difficult to follow.

 

[JohnRice]

Definitely agree with the first point. Unfortunately, though, there is so much material that is not part of Movies Anywhere (Paramount, Lionsgate, Arrow, most TV shows, etc) that the 2nd point is difficult to follow.

Yeah, I don't actually worry about MA titles myself. It's just a bonus.

 

[PMF]

Only when the lights go out during a storm does one realize how lucky we still are to have books to read, by the light of a candle.