S&V tests the Marantz SR7200 (1 Viewer)

[Charles J P]

Well, I guess all I can say, is I honestly invite anyone in here to come to my apartment and listen to my SR-6200. I listened to Yamaha, Denon, Pioneer Elite, and Onkyo in the same price range, and there was no comparison at all as far as music quality and home theater punch, dynamics, and clarity. All these attacks on this board on people who ask for, and give advice on speaker recommendations by people who say "listen for yourself" but are willing to come to this thread and say that the numbers are what matters. If that was how it worked, we would all own floorstanding KLH speakers because hey, then we wouldn't need subs since they go down to 20Hz. I am really pretty disgusted with the hypocrisy shown here. So I leave many of you with an echoing of your own words... Go listen for yourself!
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[Lewis Besze]

quote: That level is the PEAKS...not the overall nominal levels.[/quote]
Gee, did anyone thought it was continious?
Raise your hand!
Charles JP,
Read the review!
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"You Hungarians always disagree"
[Edited last by Lewis Besze on October 13, 2001 at 03:21 PM]

 

[Bhagi Katbamna]

That level is the PEAKS...not the overall nominal levels. Who the hell would stay in a place that had 105db sound playing?

I recently bought a Cinepro Amplifier and I thought the same way before because my receiver and other amplifiers made it painful to listen to movies at Ref. level. I was watching Driven and decided to try raising the volume. With the Cinepro amplifier, it sounded clean at Reference level and for the first time, I actually was able to listen to a movie at referene level for more than 5 seconds. I left it at that level for about 10-15 minutes. That is what I meant about horsepower.

 

[Mike Knapp]

Lewis,
I offered it just for clarification purposes...better to clarify than assume, dont you think?
Mike

 

[Lewis Besze]

Mike,
You're right!
It's better be sure.
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"You Hungarians always disagree"

 

[Shane Martin]

As with any negative news towards a particular brand there are going to be brand-lovers(lack of a better term) who support their brand and will deny any negative news. I'm not surprised by both responses from either side of the fence.
As far as the report goes, I'm surprised as all get out that the reciever tested this bad but I agree with Knapp that you probably won't hear what 100 watts is because even at full blown ears busting out levels, 20 watts or so its the loudest most of us can take. Thats 20 honest watts of power, however Bhagi has a good and valid point.

 

[Charles J P]

Well Shane, I dont know if your comment was aimed at me, but I would like to point out that I have never owned Marantz in the past, only own the one piece now (SR-6200) and did my research that involved actually listening to products before buying rather than looking to others for what to buy. I am trying not to be defensive, but I really am upset because it is really is a great product.
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[Shane Martin]

No Charles. It was a vague comment on these type of threads(no sarcasm honestly). These happen all the time.
I'm glad you enjoy your Marantz. I wanted one as well but they refuse to offer anything below a 100hz crossover which is too high especially for someone like me with Larger main speakers. Marantz's sound is quite nice IMHO. It's probably the best of the bunch(under $1300 range) for stereo music.

 

[Charles J P]

I wanted one as well but they refuse to offer anything below a 100hz crossover which is too high especially for someone like me with Larger main speakers.

Interesting that you say that, because another thing I noticed about the S&V article was that they list the subwoofer (LFE) output specs as identical to those on the Onkyo 696 "24dB/octave rolloff above -3dB point of 80Hz" I believe the Onkyo has an 80Hz crossover, so someone is not being clear on the specs. If the Marantz is indeed 100Hz, but the crossover implementation somhow makes it behave like the average 80Hz receiver crossover, then that would at least explain why I have absolutly no problems/issues with blending my large (Paradigm Monitor 7) speaker with my sub (SVS 16-46CS)
With this bit of potential misinformation, I really am beginning to debate whether or not S&V even took the time to test anything on the unit besides how many watts it put out. And, until we hear from Marantz and/or S&V it will still be up for debate about whether they got a defective unit.
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[Shane Martin]

It's also possible that Marantz changed their Crossover specs for this new model year to 80 from 100. I was basing my opinion on previous models. FWIW 80 is still unacceptable to me

 

[Mike Knapp]

If it is THX approved it will have a 80hz crossover...no matter the year it was produced.
Mike

 

[Charles J P]

By the way Shane, I want you to know that I am not attacking you. You just posted some information that prompted a response.
I am curious however, as to what crossover point you do approve of, and what mains you are using. The generally accepted rule of thumb is that your speakers should be flat down to one octave below the crossover point. So if you choose a 50Hz crossover for example, you would effectively be stating that you are confident your mains can produce 25Hz with the same authority as 100Hz. Of course, as I have been harping in this thread, let your ears by your guide. I am just curious.
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[Shane Martin]

My current mains are solid down to 22hz. I have a flexible crossover so I tested with my ears the different points I could pick(40-120 in 10hz increments). 60hz seems right my system and its current state.
Now the major benefit of a flexible crossover to me is if I change speakers I have the option to change the crossover point to fit my next speakers unlike if I owned a fixed crossover. I like options.
Current mains are Cerwin Vega vs120's(4ohm 104 db efficient at 1 watt 1 tweeter, 5 1/4 mid, 12" woof). While I admit these aren't the best speakers they sound better with the lower crossover. If I owned bookshelves then 80 would be just fine but I prefer a floorstanding speaker for stereo music. As soon as I find a speaker I like then I'll replace my mains ASAP. It's a matter of time. If it matters I'm leaning towards Linn.

Of course, as I have been harping in this thread, let your ears by your guide

Yes but #'s help show the limits of a particular item, the problem is that people take this too literally and that's where discussions arrive.

 

[Lewis Besze]

Charles,
Nobody said that the current models have a 100hz crossover points,[previous models had indeed]as you ponted out the in the lab section put out the actual measurment,which is far more accurate then the brochure or even the owner manual figures,that the manufacturers use to put out.
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[Tom Vodhanel]

I think the *20w is all you ever need* POV is misguided.
1)if that's the case...and this receiver can only hit it's measured output....then it's Marantz's responsibility to rate the receiver accuratley AND give a detailed summary on why they feel 20-30w is more than enough for any HT.
don't have your product put out a fraction of it's rated performance...and then say...*oh well, you don't really need it anyway*.(I know marantz isn't saying that...but that's the arguement by some of the pro-marantz camp).
2)would 20w really be more than enough for a full range speaker? Sure...if you're using extreme sensivity horns,have a small room,and/or never listen at more than moderate levels.
Many of todays speakers are in the mid/upper 80s sensitivity wise. if you're at say 86dB/1w/1m....20w would give you 99dB peaks....at one meter.However,the typical front speaker distance is more like 3-4m...so you'll lose a solid 6-12dB of *sensitivity*.
Best case would have you peaking out a full 6dB below reference.(in a very tiny room)...in the *typical* room...figure 12dB(or more)under reference.
The situation would be at it's worse if you wanted to experiment with speakers set to large of course.(from 80hz and up...20-30w might be ok).
TV

 

[Mike Knapp]

I think the *20w is all you ever need* POV is misguided.

I wonder who said that? I know I sure didnt.
Mike

 

[Tom Vodhanel]

Mike,you don't think comments like this...
"""As to the "watts" thing. Any of you ever hook a watt meter to your rig? I did this years ago. I had a receiver (not a Marantz) that put out 75 watts per channel. I hooked the meter to it and cranked it up so loud I couldnt stand to be in the same room with it....it was giving me 20 watts. Yes, 20 watts was all I was using. Its not about how many, its about how good they are."""
Will be interpretted as meaning you don't need more than 20w?
TV

 

[Kevin. W]

How do you measure the wattage output of a receiver/amp?
Kevin

 

[Mike Knapp]

Tom,
I sure hope not.
I stated an observation I made many years ago (probably 15 or more). That observation was that 20 watts blew me out the door. I was shocked to see how loud 20 watts could make a full range speaker play.
Ever since then I have paid little attention to the speced wattage of amps. I have heard 2 watt amps that sound like heaven and 500 watt amps sound so shrill they would pierce my ears. No, there is more to good sound than watts.
All of you so concerned with the wattage should be MORE concerned with the poor THD reported and the high noise floor. Those two issues would make or break the deal for me...not the wattage.
That said, if Marantz advertises a given wattage, the unit needs to produce that wattage. I would never say otherwise.
Mike
[Edited last by Mike Knapp on October 13, 2001 at 09:39 PM]

 

[Charles J P]

Actually Lewis, Shane said
quote: I wanted one as well but they refuse to offer anything below a 100hz crossover[/quote]
I took "I wanted one" to mean he looked at the new models and "they refuse" [present tense] "to offer" [not offered] "anything below a 100hz crossover" below 100 as apposed to equal to or higher than 100. To me this sounds like Shane was, at some point under the impression that the current models were still at 100Hz. Like I said, I'm not bashing Shane, but that is what he said earlier today.
and
quote: you ponted out the in the lab section put out the actual measurment,which is far more accurate then the brochure or even the owner manual figures,that the manufacturers use to put out.[/quote]
Its only far more accurate than what the manufacturer says if S&V didnt toast the unit or get a bad one to start with.

That said, if Marantz advertises a given wattage, the unit needs to produce that wattage. I would never say otherwise.

I was going through my S&V stack today and I noticed that not a single reciever they reviewed in 2001 has hit its advertised wattage. I think this thread is getting a little rediculous. I admit that I am a little touchy about the issue because I own the 6200, but that is also my point. I OWN one of the new Marantz's and have experianced none of these problems. Of course I suppose theres a small chance the 6200 and 7200 share no common parts, but I doubt it.
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[Edited last by Charles J P on October 13, 2001 at 10:06 PM]