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Proposed digital copy protection legislation (MANY USEFUL LINKS) (1 Viewer)

Ryan Wright

Screenwriter
Joined
Jul 30, 2000
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1,875
This is a scary bill.
It would mandate the use of DRM (digital rights management) in all computer systems. What does this mean to you? Plenty.
- Microsoft has pioneered DRM research. Their DRM software may very well become industry standard, since they can deploy it (or may already have) on millions of PCs worldwide. This effectively extends their monopoly many times over.
- Linux and other alternative operating systems will GO AWAY FOR GOOD. Don't believe me? Wait until your system BIOS refuses to boot the PC unless it detects an operating system with the appropriate DRM software. And what will that appropriate software be? Microsoft's. And how much will they try to charge Linux users to license it? $Millions. They don't want Linux around. Linux is the only real threat to their server market, so they can just refuse to license their DRM technology or charge huge fees if forced to do so.
- Allow you to keep your fair use rights? Yeah, right! Copy protected CDs on store shelves now prevent you from making a fair use copy. You can't turn them into MP3s, heck, you can't even listen to them on your computer. Attempting to get around this protection is a violation of the DMCA and can land you in big trouble. With fair use rights already being stripped away, do you really think they will be preserved in this new bill?
This bill is a major problem and there is a very real threat of it passing. I urge you to write your congressmen and tell them you oppose this bill.
Preston Padden, head of government relations for Disney: "There is no right to fair use. Fair use is a defense against infringement."
Source: http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,49201,00.html
For those that don't know what fair use laws are: Fair use allows you to make a copy of a recording for your own personal use. When you copy a CD to a tape to listen to in the car, that's fair use. When you copy a CD to another CD to take somewhere so you don't damage your real CD, that's fair use. When you transfer the contents of a CD to an MP3 player, that's fair use. The RIAA would like to take fair use away from you. They don't believe consumers have a right to fair use despite it being law. Copy protected CDs combined with the DMCA have already taken fair use away from you: Sure, you still have the RIGHT to copy the CD, but the label has put copy protection on it that prevents you from doing this. Oh, and if you get around that protection, you can go to jail under the DMCA. But hey, you still have the RIGHT to copy it, don't you? :angry:
The ultimate goal of the media companies (RIAA, and eventually the MPAA) is a pay per use scheme. They don't want you to own any content, they want you to pay every time you watch a movie, or hear a song. We all know that they tried this with DivX and it failed horribly, but now they (the RIAA in particular) are using legislation to accomplish the same goal.
Case in point: These new RIAA sponsered music download services. You know, legal Napsters. They're online now, but they only let you burn a small portion of the songs you download to CD. What's worse, you can't copy your songs to another computer nor to an MP3 player - they won't work. Oh, and of course you pay good money for these features. But wait, it gets even worse: If you cancel your service or otherwise quit paying them their monthly fees, every song you've ever downloaded from them expires immediately and you are unable to access it. Isn't that lovely? You pay to download the music and then you continue paying for the rest of your life if you want to continue to hear it! OH, and RealOne's service only lets you listen to 200 tracks at a time. Doesn't matter if you've been subscribed for years and have downloaded (and paid for) thousands of tracks, you're only allowed to keep 200 on your hard drive at any given time.
Source: http://www.shift.com/web/feature/feature014a.asp
Now they're shutting Internet radio down. New CARP recommendations are mandating many thousands of dollars in fees for broadcasting songs over the Internet. This is no different than radio, yet sites that stream music over the net are going to have fees levied on them that are many times higher than what radio stations pay. Worse, these fees are RETROACTIVE back to 1998 when the DMCA was passed. Somafm.com a station that I listen to, has calculated their ~$1000 per year broadcasting fees will be increasing to about $1000 PER DAY. And, oh, that part about being retroactive? They could find themselves owing hundreds of thousands of dollars. This, a site run by a couple of people that barely scrapes by, makes no profit whatsoever, and relies on donations to stay online. Essentially, Internet Radio is going to cease to exist once this fees go into effect.
Source: http://salon.com/tech/feature/2002/0...dio/index.html
This is where it's heading, folks. Down the long road to nastiness. They can't talk consumers into paying for this garbage so instead they're forcing them to through the use & abuse of our legal system. The only thing that's going to stop it now is a country-wide revolt by the people... I'm doing my part: I quit buying CDs when they forced Napster to shutdown and now only listen to the radio (both broadcast and streaming over the Internet) or unsigned artists. I still buy DVDs, unfortunately, I'm weak in that area... :)
Sorry for the long rant. I'm overjoyed to be able to post this message on the HTF. I've wanted to do so for a long time now. While politics are disallowed these are huge issues that are affecting all of us, and I applaud the moderators and owners of the HTF for allowing this discussion to continue...
 

MickeS

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2000
Messages
5,058
Ryan, thanks for the links and the information.

The scariest part for me is the willingness of some members of congress to legislate in favor of RIAA and MPAA. Basically, they are for a free market, but if people aren't willing to pay for something, they want to legislate that people MUST pay.

The proposed laws that mandate that all electronics manufacturers MUST put copy-protection technology in their equipment is also completely insane. What manufacturers decided to incorporate in their products should be up to them, as long as the equipment they make is safe to use. If they want to strike private deals with MPAA and RIAA, fine. But to LEGISLATE around this is just absurd.

Jack Valenti on NPR yesterday defended the efforts to stop piracy, and said that "everything a consumer can legally do today, the'll be able to do in the future". Fine, that's all I ask. However, already we've seen that is not the case. Some CD's can't be played on a CD-ROM drive, even though that's completely legal. The region-encoding of DVD's prevent me from playing region 2 movies on my DVD-player, even though that would be perfectly legal.

He also completely left out that I most likely will have to PAY for doing these legal activities, even though I've already paid for the movie or CD once. If I want to copy it to my MP3 player, I'll probably have to pay for it again.

I have already written to my representatives about this, but that was a while ago. Maybe I should do it again.

/Mike
 

Kevin P

Screenwriter
Joined
Jan 18, 1999
Messages
1,439
Re: the protected CD crashing computers, this isn't really Sony's fault, it's the writer of the OS driver/CD drive firmware not properly handling error conditions. If a CD (protected or not) makes Windows crash when it's inserted, then MS should issue an update to prevent this from happening. If it crashes a Mac, then Apple should issue a patch to prevent this. If the crash was a result of the CD being formatted incorrectly, then the CD should be repressed correctly as well. But the operating system should be able to deal with and recover from errors such as this without crashing.
Of course, if Sony designed the protection scheme specifically to crash computers, then they should be held responsible. The in-duh-vidual(s) in charge of the contrived scheme should be locked in a room and be forced to listen to a low-bitrate MP3 of Celine Dion 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, through a pair of Bose speakers wired out of phase! :)
As for this boneheaded legislation, if it passes, I'll have to find another line of work, since I'll refuse to purchase a computer or any other device that is crippled as a result. I'll never buy another CD again either.
KJP
 

Michael Reuben

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Michael Reuben
This makes just makes you wonder how many more of our freedoms are they going to try to steal from us.
You were doing fine up until that line. Please make every effort to stick to the immediate topic. To date, the participants have done a superb job of staying on track, and the result has been an informative and valuable thread. Let's keep it that way.

M.
 

Jeff Braddock

Second Unit
Joined
Jan 26, 2002
Messages
306
My apologies. Sometimes I just get carried away. I will make every attempt to refrain from like comments in the future. Again, sorry.
 

Steve Owen

Second Unit
Joined
Jan 7, 1999
Messages
416
This article is MUST READING for anyone wanting to come up to speed on these issues...
Link Removed
It's a very good overview. It covers digital television, copy protected CDs, general copyright issues, and goes into some background on where we've been and where we seem to be heading.
This is much more than just a bad piece of legislation. It's about the media companies making their first attempt at complete control of all media that they produce. Don't think "this will never pass, so we don't have to worry about it".
-Steve
 

Thomas Newton

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Thomas Newton
This is much more than just a bad piece of legislation. It's about the media companies making their first attempt at complete control of all media that they produce. Don't think "this will never pass, so we don't have to worry about it".
It's even worse than that. In written testimony to Congress as part of the SSSCA hearings, Intel Vice President Leslie Vasdasz indicated that "members of the content community" had asked for "playback controls" that could "give Hollywood control over playback of all digital content" on our computer systems.
The logical consequence of a demand for perfect prevention of infringement will be a system in which all content, including your own, must be approved by some copy prevention system. For, as the Intel vice president observed, it is one thing to create a DRM system to protect new marked content -- quite another to distinguish legacy content from home-grown content or to plug the so-called "analog hole."
Imagine living in a world where you must ask Hollywood for permission to distribute your own digital photos or home videos to your family and friends. Imagine living in a world where an independent filmmaker cannot sell their own work to the public without Hollywood's approval -- approval that comes with a very steep fee, if it is available at any price.
That is the sort of world that is the logical consequence of the CBDTPA and the demands for perfect prevention of infringement via policeware. More to the point, Mr. Vasdasz's testimony indicates that there is an excellent chance that one or more companies in the entertainment industry have already tried to obtain this kind of control over the public, behind closed doors.
I close by noting that word-processed letters to Congress fall into the category of all digital content just as surely as they fall into the category of Free Speech.
 

Shayne Judge

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
May 8, 2000
Messages
137
To me, the most frustrating aspect of this proposed legislation is that it will penalize the law abiding citizens, and not those for whom it is intended. In my opinion, those that pirate the material will simply find a way around the laws, and Joe Innocent Pack will get run over.

Ryan Wright: WOW! Thanks for the information on SomaFM. A great site, indeed.
 

Thomas Newton

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Preston Padden, head of government relations for Disney: "There is no right to fair use. Fair use is a defense against infringement."

This statement is rather puzzling. Let's work our way through things.

1. Under the Constitution, in the absence of copyright and patent laws, the public has a natural right to use, copy, and distribute all published works -- even for commercial gain.

2. Copyright is a temporary restriction on the public's rights to do these things.

3. Fair Use is a limitation on copyright. The copyright laws state explicitly that (a) Fair Use is a limitation on the rights granted to the copyright owner, and that (b) Fair Use is not infringement. So Fair Use can be a defense against a charge of infringement.

The claim that "there are no Government-granted Fair Use rights" might be technically correct, but it's missing a key component: the fact that Fair Use protects natural rights that are important to the public against being accidentally swept up in a broad-based copyright grant.
 

Christian Behrens

Supporting Actor
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Everyone,
Just to reiterate was has been mentioned at the beginning of this thread, you can make a difference by going to DigitalConsumer.org and have them send faxes in your name to Washington and Congress to stop the Hollings Bill and tell them that you disapprove of the entertainment industry taking "fair use" rights away from the consumer.
Let's make ourselves heard; surely this is more important than any indiviual DVD title you'd like to see.
-Christian
 

Mark Larson

Supporting Actor
Joined
Mar 3, 2002
Messages
537
What i am afraid of is also that those of us sticking to our guns may be viewed as stupid luddites. While it is them who may be blinded by short-term gains (DivX might have been a good example if it had succeeded).
We have to make sure we don't get the stigma attached to Tuxers and other geeks today - tell anyone you are ripping a CD (no explanation), and the immediate reaction is one of shock and horror.
We have to get around this - if we lose respect of the majority (baa baa?) we can never win this battle against the companies controlling content and distribution.
What is the reaction of people you tell this to? I've had that - "weird tree-hugger", "paranoid guy - the companies aren't going to take over everything"... :angry:
 

Ryan Wright

Screenwriter
Joined
Jul 30, 2000
Messages
1,875
To me, the most frustrating aspect of this proposed legislation is that it will penalize the law abiding citizens, and not those for whom it is intended. In my opinion, those that pirate the material will simply find a way around the laws, and Joe Innocent Pack will get run over.
No:
"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws." - Ayn Rand
The recording industry might as well be the US Government. The fact that this bill could even be introduced is insanity, and if it passes, the powers that be will have no problem arresting you or me for violating their laws. And most of us will be in violation of this bill whether we intend to be or not.
I'm going to go on and on here in just a second about the DMCA, which is what started this all. I believe this information is important for others to know. Moderators, if you disagree, I ask you to please simply remove this individual post rather than killing the whole thread. This is a very important thread.
Did you know that 2600 magazine has been prohibited by court order from linking to the DeCSS software under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act? DISTRIBUTING the software is illegal, but they weren't doing that, they merely linked to it. People are allowed to publish bomb making details on their web sites, but if they so much as tell others where to find a piece of software that Hollywood doesn't like, they are nailed by our courts.
Likewise, Copyleft is being sued for violations under the DMCA for selling T-Shirts with the DeCSS source code (all 5 lines of text) printed on them. So, now we're telling people what they can and can't print on their T-Shirts.
Smells like freedom of speech violations if you ask me.
For those of you new to this game, CSS is the encryption method used on DVDs. It essentially prevents you from copying the DVD. DeCSS decrypts the DVD and allows you to copy it to your hard drive.
So, right now this only sounds like something a big bad pirate would do, but stick with me here: My laptop has an external DVD drive that is bulky and sucks a lot of power. It also has a 40GB hard drive. I could copy 5 to 10 DVDs onto that drive and watch them while on an airplane. That would allow me to leave the external DVD drive at home and would also significantly increase my battery life. I already do this with CDs (I turn them into MP3s), and I have the capability to do it with DVDs.
Legally, this is OK. It's considered fair use.
Morally, it's also OK. I'm not giving the DVDs away, I'm simply putting them onto a hard drive where they are more convenient for me to watch while on the road. It's no different than putting a CD on an MP3 player for convenience while working out. Who could think that this is somehow wrong?
Yet if I'm caught with the DeCSS algorithm - either on my hard drive, on a floppy disk, or simply printed on my T-Shirt - I will not pass go, I will not collect $200, I will, in fact, go directly to jail. JAIL. For simply trying to watch a DVD that I paid for fair and square.
Everyone here knows how MP3s have caught on. I bet there are a lot of us (myself included) who have turned all of their CDs into MP3s. What used to take up one whole wall of my home and require significant effort to enjoy now fits on a 2x4 inch hard drive, all available at the click of a mouse. My DVD collection is growing in size and I would eventually like to do the same to them - put them all on a hard drive. For $5000 I can build a 2TB server right now that will hold about 400 DVDs in a space the size of a small microwave (I've already built six of these machines for work, though we don't put DVDs on them). In three years that price will be $500 and that space will be only a few square inches. Can anyone tell me why I should be legally (under threat of years in prison) be prevented from doing that?!
I understand that the industry is merely trying to protect their profits. I'm sympathetic to the losses they incur due to piracy. However, I would submit that turning their honest customers - you & I - into criminals is not the way to solve the problem.
There. I'm done. Time to go to bed. :) Hope I have given you all some more insight into how these various laws are affecting real people...
 

Thomas Newton

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Thomas Newton
A little more information about CSS:

1. A commercial counterfeiter does not need to break CSS in order to run off a million working copies of any Hollywood DVD they please. The counterfeit plant can just bit-copy the whole DVD in scrambled form.

2. A standalone player or a computer must unscramble CSS just to play a store-bought, non-counterfeit DVD.
 

MickeS

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2000
Messages
5,058
I just read an article in a Swedish computer magazine about the Key2Audio "copy protection", that prevents a music CD from being played in a computer (and in many DVD-players too). Turns out that you can just rip the CD with for example http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/ and burn it to a CD-R, and it'll play just fine... so once again, the music industry is shooting itself in the foot.
 

Chuck Mayer

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I appreciate the wealth of information in this thread. I have visited digitalconsumer and will soon read the articles. Let's keep this thread where it can do the most good in educating the consumers.

Thanks,

Chuck
 

Ryan Wright

Screenwriter
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Jul 30, 2000
Messages
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Turns out that you can just rip the CD
Or just plug the digital out on a regular CD player into the digital input on a decent sound card. Voila, instant copy and nearly perfect. Post it on Kazaa/Gnutella/etc and everyone can have it.

Who does this inconvenience? Certainly not the people who are downloading the file. It makes no difference to them and very little difference to the people who actually post the CD on the P2P services. It only hurts regular consumers because we can't listen to the CD on our computers or MP3 players now without becoming criminals.
 

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