Once Upon a Time in Hollywood (2019) (1 Viewer)

[TravisR]

Personally, I loved the Cliff vs. Bruce sequence in the picture. I thought it was fun and really well done but I mean, I also just saw it as fiction. I think almost any time real people are portrayed in a film people who knew the real people will have comments or complaints. I did not take that sequence as Tarantino trying to show us something "true" about Lee, I took it as just another one of Tarantino's fantasies.

Yeah, I understand how Lee's family, friends and even some fans would be unhappy but I don't think the scene's intent is to be a 100% accurate representation of Bruce Lee. It's in there to show that Cliff is a bad motherfucker (to pull from another QT movie) who can even take on a legendary tough guy.

 

[TonyD]

I still say it was an unreliable narrator sequence since it was all from the point of view of Cliff as a memory.

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

It's in there to show that Cliff is a bad motherfucker (to pull from another QT movie) who can even take on a legendary tough guy.

Yes, absolutely and this pays off in the film...

Spoiler: SPOILER

...when Cliff easily dispatches the Manson family slobs that have come to kill him and Rick even though at that point Cliff is high as a kite from smoking his acid dipped cigarette.

I still say it was an unreliable narrator sequence since it was all from the point of view of Cliff as a memory.

This is in part why I don't agree with Tony's unreliable narrator idea. The picture never sets up unreliable narrator stuff with how the story is told or the characters. I believe what we see in the scene with Bruce is shown to us so we know exactly what happened, exactly how much of a badass Cliff is, and also why the Kurt Russell character wants nothing to do with having Cliff on one of his sets. It's not just the rumors about Cliff's wife dying under suspicious circumstances, it is that Cliff makes trouble with his co-workers at times.

 

[TonyD]

I think it is because we cut to that scene while Cliff is on the roof. Then after the fight and arguing cuts back to cliff on the roof shaking his head and saying “fair enough”.
That’s him acknowledging the memory and agreeing that he went overboard. But still we’re seeing his point of view of a memory.
Memories tend to be unreliable and often unrealistic.

You could be right. This is just how I see it.

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

I think it is because we cut to that scene while Cliff is on the roof. Then after the fight and arguing cuts back to cliff on the roof shaking his head and saying “fair enough”.
That’s him acknowledging the memory and agreeing that he went overboard. But still we’re seeing his point of view of a memory.
Memories tend to be unreliable and often unrealistic.

You could be right. This is just how I see it.

Yes, but I think the other thing about it being Cliff recalling this is I think he would prefer to believe that the Russell character and probably others don't want him around because of his fight with Bruce Lee not because they think he killed his wife. Which seems to be a topic he would prefer not to think about.

 

[TravisR]

The idea of the unreliable narrator is up to each viewer but I took the scene as having shown how it 'really' happened. I don't think Cliff has any need or desire to build himself up or lie to himself about being a tough guy because he is actually a tough guy.

 

[Bryan^H]

Personally, I loved the Cliff vs. Bruce sequence in the picture. I thought it was fun and really well done but I mean, I also just saw it as fiction. I think almost any time real people are portrayed in a film people who knew the real people will have comments or complaints. I did not take that sequence as Tarantino trying to show us something "true" about Lee, I took it as just another one of Tarantino's fantasies.

And it is a huge tease that he doesn't let us see the end result of the best 2 out of 3 falls. In my opinion Bruce would have destroyed Cliff once he got going, I mean he got thrown hard enough into a car to dent steel, and he hops right back up, barely fazed-- and energized for the final round. That is pretty bad ass.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Finally saw this one tonight. There was a lot I liked, but I didn't love it.

The best performance in the movie for me was Dakota Fanning as Squeaky Fromme. It's the first adult performance I've seen from her that has really blown me away. The coiled intensity that she brings to the role gives every moment she's present a tense undercurrent.

I also thought Julia Butters was great as the kid from the Lancer family. Precocious, but not obnoxiously so. And not dragged into it by her parents -- really, truly passionate about her craft.

Turns out they were just three bumbling idiots. Which was fine, just surprising to me

That part is true to history. Tex Watson (played by Austin Butler) took Sadie Atkins (played by Mikey Madison), Linda Kasabian (played by Maya Hawke), and Patty Krenwinkel (played by Madisen Beaty) to murder the occupants of Terry Melcher's old house. From what I can recall, everything lines up with the historical record until Rick Dalton comes out screaming in his bathrobe waving around a blender full of frozen margarita. Because of Dalton's interventions, they never crossed paths with Steven Parent and things took a very different turn. It's correct though that the Kasabian was the one who didn't participate in the murders.

Just got out and I was very underwhelmed. I’m generally a fan of Tarantino but the pacing was dreadfully slow, and everything outside the DiCaprio-Pitt storyline fell flat for me. There were individual moments throughout which amused me but on the whole the film was less than the sum of its parts for me.

I liked it more than you did, but this is definitely at or near the bottom of the heap for me when it comes to QT's filmography. I appreciated the craft more than the story or most of the characters.

The film is obviously also a love letter to memories Tarantino has of Hollywood and sort of a fairy tale about what it could have been had certain events not played out as they did...maybe.

That's one of the problematic elements of the movie for me. He obviously idolizes the period of Hollywood history that Dalton represents, even while he's satirizing it. The message seems to be: If only there were two masculine white dudes there that night, everything would have turned out differently.

That was the real Sharon Tate they showed in "The Wrecking Crew" sequences which was nice as I was one of those young teenagers that watched that Matt Helms film in a movie theater back then.

I thought it was a ballsy move, because it invites direct comparisons between the real person and the portrayal. But it worked here,

Well, she is not a red herring. Her part serves an important purpose in how the story is told. Yes, you are correct that Tarantino assumes his audience knows who Tate is, who Charles Manson and his cult were, and what occurred in 1969. This is kind of interesting because if you don't know these things, and the young couple sitting next to me at the theater did not, this whole film will seem sort of just a long ramble. The dread and tension, the anticipation of what is coming, totally relies on you knowing who these people are and what happened.

The friend I saw it with had no knowledge of the Tate murders and only a passing knowledge of Charles Manson. Just like you said, he thought it was one long pointless ramble. Meanwhile every time Sharon Tate or a member of the Manson family showed up on screen, I tensed up.

I still say it was an unreliable narrator sequence since it was all from the point of view of Cliff as a memory.

Definitely, given that it begins with him standing on the roof fixing the antenna and ends on the roof fixing the antenna. Undoubtedly something did happen that cemented the bad blood with that stunt coordinator, but it may or may not have been what was shown.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Finally saw this one tonight. There was a lot I liked, but I didn't love it.

The best performance in the movie for me was Dakota Fanning as Squeaky Fromme. It's the first adult performance I've seen from her that has really blown me away. The coiled intensity that she brings to the role gives every moment she's present a tense undercurrent.

I also thought Julia Butters was great as the kid from the Lancer family. Precocious, but not obnoxiously so. And not dragged into it by her parents -- really, truly passionate about her craft.


That part is true to history. Tex Watson (played by Austin Butler) took Sadie Atkins (played by Mikey Madison), Linda Kasabian (played by Maya Hawke), and Patty Krenwinkel (played by Madisen Beaty) to murder the occupants of Terry Melcher's old house. From what I can recall, everything lines up with the historical record until Rick Dalton comes out screaming in his bathrobe waving around a blender full of frozen margarita. Because of Dalton's interventions, they never crossed paths with Steven Parent and things took a very different turn. It's correct though that the Kasabian was the one who didn't participate in the murders.


I liked it more than you did, but this is definitely at or near the bottom of the heap for me when it comes to QT's filmography. I appreciated the craft more than the story or most of the characters.


That's one of the problematic elements of the movie for me. He obviously idolizes the period of Hollywood history that Dalton represents, even while he's satirizing it. The message seems to be: If only there were two masculine white dudes there that night, everything would have turned out differently.


I thought it was a ballsy move, because it invites direct comparisons between the real person and the portrayal. But it worked here,


The friend I saw it with had no knowledge of the Tate murders and only a passing knowledge of Charles Manson. Just like you said, he thought it was one long pointless ramble. Meanwhile every time Sharon Tate or a member of the Manson family showed up on screen, I tensed up.


Definitely, given that it begins with him standing on the roof fixing the antenna and ends on the roof fixing the antenna. Undoubtedly something did happen that cemented the bad blood with that stunt coordinator, but it may or may not have been what was shown.

I think this is the type of movie that will grow on you after more than one viewing.

 

[AshJW]

I think this is the type of movie that will grow on you after more than one viewing.

I think so too.
That happened to me with Jackie Brown and Reservoir Dogs as well as Django Unchained.

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

The friend I saw it with had no knowledge of the Tate murders and only a passing knowledge of Charles Manson. Just like you said, he thought it was one long pointless ramble. Meanwhile every time Sharon Tate or a member of the Manson family showed up on screen, I tensed up.

This is the one thing that I think is an issue for the film. Not an issue for those of us that know the history but in 2019 I think a lot of people have no idea what happened in 1969 with the Manson family. I did not know the young couple sitting next to me in the theater but they were more than a little baffled by the film. They had no idea who Sharon Tate was, and really as an actress you would have to consider her obscure at this point due to her brief career, and had no clue about Manson or even that he was in the film. So, essentially the climax of the picture they just thought was comedy. There was zero impact on them in terms of what Tarantino was doing.

I chatted with them after the picture because I overheard their conversation and tried to explain who was who. It was pretty funny in some ways hearing what they thought was going on. They thought Tate was in the film because she was going to eventually hook up with Rick Dalton or Cliff Booth. There was no tension for them over who she really was and Tate's real life fate.

They did not even realize that Manson made an appearance in the film and seemed like they did not even recall the scene he was in. "Which person was he?"

So again, what was a tense moment for those of us who know who he was, for them was a zero.

They thought Squeaky Fromme was the leader of the people living on the Spahn ranch.

Spoiler: SPOILER

They thought she sent the three people to kill Cliff Booth and so never for a second thought they would be going to murder Tate.

After I had explained things for a few minutes they laughed and said "Wow, we got none of that! Now I want to go read about it and watch it again."

They basically thought the entire story had something to do with Rick and Cliff struggling in Hollywood but one of them would end up hooking up with Tate and through that their careers would take off and maybe Cliff would get revenge on Russell for trying to shut him out of working on his stuff.

That just creates one of those instances where people in the theater were watching totally different films.

I told them it is a totally different film if you know the history. However, I also found it sort of fascinating to talk to people that had a totally different take on the picture.

 

[Mark Booth]

I caught a matinee yesterday. Another winner from Tarantino. I didn't get into any discussions with anyone in the theater but it was mostly an older (retired) crowd and I think they all "got it". I laughed out loud repeatedly as the Tarantino's signature violence finally erupted on the screen. It was long in coming, yet, I enjoyed everything leading up to it as well. A good "buddy" film.

The Booth Bijou gives 'Once Upon a Time In Hollywood' 5 out of 5 stars. That's two 5 star films for me in 2 days (the other being 'The Art of Racing in the Rain'). Can't wait to share both of them in the Bijou Bijou Garage Theater.

Mark

 

[Mark Booth]

BTW, not only is the violent encounter the Manson Family had with Cliff & Rick a figment of Tarantino's imagination, the house that Rick Dalton (DiCaprio's character) owns next door to the Polanski house is a figment of Tarantino's imagination too. The real house where the murders took place was demolished in 1994. A new home was built on the property in 1996. The address was changed (at that time) from 10050 Cielo Drive to 10066 Cielo Drive. At no time was there a home immediately to the right of the Polanski gated entrance off of Cielo Drive (as pictured in the film). The Rick Dalton house doesn't exist today and never existed on Cielo Drive (in that locale relative to the Polanski house).

The real entrance to the private drive section of Cielo Drive (off of non-private Cielo Drive) is used in the film. Shots of cars driving up and down private Cielo Drive (onto non-private Cielo Drive) at this intersection are real. But once Tarantino takes us to the end of private Cielo Drive the scenes with the gated entrance (former Polanski home site) and Rick Dalton's home were either shot somewhere else or created with computer magic. I suspect Tarantino found a different location with a similar gated entry and house next door because I doubt the current residents of private Cielo Drive would be interested in having filming taking place that far up their street.

Mark

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

We still have 4 months to go and they are the months where "award" films will be released but looking over what has come out this year and what I've seen (which I admit has not been much)...well...this is the best film of the year so far and it's not even close. So, at the moment I expect this will get a Best Picture (and Best Director, Writing, Cinematography, etc) nomination.

And I'm not saying that from the position of a Tarantino fan boy...I like his work but see the flaws in it as well...but at the moment I think this stands head and shoulders above everything else released this year. I will say this is the first time in Tarantino's career that I have felt he has put out a potential "Best Picture" winner.

 

[TravisR]

We still have 4 months to go and they are the months where "award" films will be released but looking over what has come out this year and what I've seen (which I admit has not been much)...well...this is the best film of the year so far and it's not even close.

I wholeheartedly agree. Us, Toy Story 4 and Midsommar were also very good too.

 

[MartinP.]

[...]...the house that Rick Dalton (DiCaprio's character) owns next door to the Polanski house is a figment of Tarantino's imagination too.[...] Etc.

I don't know if your post reads as a criticism or just an FYI... It is a fairytale after all "Once Upon a Time..."

 

[ScottJH]

Saw it for a 4th time today. It was the final day @ my "good" Imax theater. My favorite movie so far this year and look forward to the UHD Blu-ray.

 

[Mark Booth]

I don't know if your post reads as a criticism or just an FYI... It is a fairytale after all "Once Upon a Time..."

It was an observation, not criticism.

Seeing the film caused me to spend some time on my computer to read about the original murders and compare what I saw in the film to reality, including Google maps satellite images of the address. I quickly noticed that there was no house in the location of Rick Dalton's house as depicted in the film.

Mark

 

[Bryan^H]

I think this is the type of movie that will grow on you after more than one viewing.

Boy do I agree with this. I saw the film 5 times in the theater. Although I really liked it a lot the first time, each additional time I focused on different scenes/dialogue. Loved it more each time I watched it.

I can say without hesitation this is one of my all time favorite films. It checks every box of my likes, and what I feel makes great cinema. From stellar performances from all involved, to a unique, and different type of film in an over formulaic Hollywood currently. And the fairy tale/fantasy aspect with an oddball crowd pleasing ending in which history is changed for the better. Each viewing I left smiling.
It is near perfection to me.

 

[Bryan^H]

And by the way Tarantino's IMDB page of Rick Dalton shows that he never had any work in film after 1971. So that fairy tale ending of maybe he meets Tate, and Polanski hires him to star in his movies....sorry.

So either Rick Dalton dies, or he finds another line of work for the rest of his life!

Actor (35 credits)
1971 Operazione Dyn-o-mite!
Jason
1970 Hell Boats
Lt. Comdr. Jeffords, R.N.V.R
1970 Red Blood, Red Skin
Romeo Douglas
1970 Nebraska Jim
Nebraska Jim
1969 Kill Me Quick, Ringo Said the Gringo
(Uccidimi Subito Ringo, Disse Il Gringo)
Ringo
1969 Lancer (TV Series)
Caleb DeCoteau
- Pilot (1969) ... Caleb DeCoteau
1969 The F.B.I (TV Series)
Michael Murtaugh
- All the Streets Are Silent (1969) ... Michael Murtaugh
1968 Land of the Giants (TV Series)
Dr. David Hellstrom
- Capture (1968) ... Dr. David Hellstrom
1968 Bingo Martin (TV Series)
Rocky Ryan
- Heck to Pay (1968) ... Rocky Ryan
1967 The Green Hornet (TV Series)
Thompson Shaw
- The Hornet Hunter (1967) ... Thompson Shaw
1967 Tarzan (TV Series)
Brick Bedford
- Jewel of the Jungle (1967) ... Brick Bedford
1967 Salty, The Talking Sea Otter
Jeb Marvin
1966 Jigsaw Jane
Todd Gilcrest
1966 Fourteen Fists of McCluskey
Sgt. Mike Lewis
1965 Tanner (TV Movie)
Joe Tanner
1964 Hellfire, Texas
Maj. Travis Jackson
1963 Big Game
Randy Wilson
1961 Comanche Uprising
Lt. Warwick Winston
1959-1963 Bounty Law (TV Series)
Jake Cahill
- Incident in Inez (1959) ... Jake Cahill
- Incident in Beaver Falls (1959) ... Jake Cahill
- Incident at Henry Minks Homested (1959) ... Jake Cahill
- Incident on a stage bound for Tuscon (1959) ... Jake Cahill
- Incident in Janicetown (1959) ... Jake Cahill
- Incident in Perrytown Pt.1 (1959) ... Jake Cahill
- Incident in Perrytown Pt.2 (1959) ... Jake Cahill
48 episodes
1959 Restless Gun (TV Series)
Jake Cahill
- Bounty Killer (1959) ... Jake Cahill
1959 Battle Of The Coral Sea
Reoman Halliday
1959 Riverboat (TV Series)
Will Henry
- No Love Lost (1959) ... Will Henry
1958 Bachelor Father (TV Series)
Kelly’s Boyfriend
- Girls Will Be Girls (1958) ... Kelly’s Boyfriend
1958 Young And Wild
Richard Edward “Rick” Braden
1958 Tales Of Wells Fargo (TV Series)
Butch Cassidy
- The Hole in the Wall Gang (1958) ... Butch Cassidy
1958 Drag Race, No Stop
Race Wheeler
1958 Man With A Camera (TV Series)
Joey Savoyen
- Second Avenue Assassin (1958) ... Joey Savoyen
1958 Darby’s Rangers
Sgt. / SSgt. / Sfc. Hank Bishop
1957 Lux Video Theatre (TV Series)
Jessie James
- Death at Northfield (1957) ... Jessie James
1957 M Squad (TV Series)
Buzz
- So Long Miss Mulligan (1957) ... Buzz
1957 Tombstone Territory (TV Series)
The Salt Flat Kid
- Wyatt Earp Tells No Tales (1957) ... The Salt Flat Kid
1956 A Strange Adventure
Harold Norton
1956 Jubal
Woody
1956 Away All Boats
Private Pickford (uncredited)
1956 These Wilder Years