*** Official TROY Discussion Thread (1 Viewer)

[Bill J]

I finally got around to seeing this today and I didn't really care for it.

Did anyone else think that Horner's score is very similar to the one in Master and Commander (which he did not compose)?

 

[Ray H]

Didn't really think of M&C, but something like Gladiator definitely comes to mind.

 

[MikeKaz]

Is it me, or did they really take the cheap way out with the whole Achilles invincibility thing. The way they have him in the film, he could have just been any regular guy who happened to be a good fighter and got lucky because he never got hit. And when he finally is killed, you still can't be certain that the arrows to the chest only hurt him because he had been hit in the heel since that was the first time he had ever been struck by anything in the movie. Maybe the arrows hurt him solely because his heel had been hit, maybe they would have hurt him regardless. That seems so cheap to me. Are they really that worried about bringing a level of realism and believability to this movie to make Hollywood happy. Did they really need to try to make the Illiad into some sort of historical war documentary.

 

[ChrisMatson]

Yes. The entire movie downplays the role of the gods.

 

[Holadem]

Pretty much, that was their take. Don't fault the film because of your expectations.

--
H

 

[MikeKaz]

Alright, I will not fault the film because of my myth based expectations, I will fault the film for being mediocre.

 

[Seth Paxton]

I gotta agree with that, although I think I will fault the filmmakers for apparently totally missing the tone and mood of the source material as well.

I couldn't get over how flat Peterson managed to make this story. There were several moments of explicit direction that were sophmoric first of all, camera movement choices that bordered on Lifetime movie efforts. Add to it the awkward pacing and the simplistic effort to put false motivations onto characters so that the story could be squeezed into a standard protagonist/antagonist mold and you just have to pray for good action. But when you can turn and see war done 10 times better in recent films like LOTR or Saving Private Ryan, then you wonder "what's left".

Not a whole lot, except perhaps some solid efforts from Bana, Bean and O'Toole. Pitt let me down, but not as much as Cox who seemed stuck having to ham it up as the cartoon villain for the film. A lot of solid talent was put to misuse or wasted in this film.

Source material this good should be saved for Oscar efforts, not summer fluff. I wasn't a big fan of Gladiator, but it dwarfed this film.

This isn't to say it was awful or even bad; more like painfully plain.

 

[Mike Broadman]

My biggest problem with the film is that the basic premise is deeply flawed: let's take a myth, remove the mythology, but keep it "mythic" in style.

All the events are explained without divine intervention. Ok, fine. But then they have the characters stomping around and talking as if they're in a mythological setting. So it's "realistic," yet the characters rarely behave like humans. Then, on top of that, they try to make them human in a couple of moments, like Achilles with his girlfriend, and it's just all so awkward and ridiculous. Achilles is a savage warmongering brute but he's still sensitive and has honor. Typical Hollywood.

The bad-ass warrior who's still "sensitive" already exists in Hector. They could have left Achilles as a near-beast of a fighter, but no, you can't do that when it's Brad Pitt.

Maybe a few too many shots showing off Pitt's new body? I understand they worked hard for it, but come on. Ok, maybe I'm speaking out of jealousy- I would kill for a physique like that.

It's a shame we didn't get more of Ajax. He was the most fun fighter to watch.

The best and worst moments for me were durng the Hector/Achilles battle. The choreography was a bit obvious but still nice, and I credit Pitt (and/or his double) a lot for executing some real nifty maneuvers. I like how they made Achilles a technician- very controlled, sophisticated movements, a real student of the art of battle. As most of you, I didn't like the soundtrack, and the most offensive moments was right after Achilles impaled Hector, the soundtrack lady right away belts out one of her annoying yelps, ruining the only potentially poignant moment of the film.

This may be silly, but it kind of bothered me how Achilles calls him out. They archers should have just cut him down. Yeah, I know, honor schmonor. If I were Priam, I would have declared that Achilles' sacrilege of Apollo's temple makes him unworthy of honor, so he could just be killed to save his son and possibly the kingdom. In fact, Priam was a rather stupid king in this movie, which made me laugh when Pitt called him a better king than Agamemnon. Sure, Priam has honor and stuff, but every decision he made was wrong. What a schmuck.

 

[Holadem]

I see what you're saying, but was the conversation with Priam not in the source material? That shows some sensitivity...

I do agree with your last couple of paragraphs, for personal reasons. I have a had a huge problem with the whole "noble war" and honor crap since I read War and Peace some years ago.

--
H

 

[Mike Broadman]

I haven't read it since high school, but I think Priam convinced Achilles' to give up his body using the language of honor and war, ie, "If you're such great warrior, you should respect the tradition..." blah blah blah.


One other thing that was silly was the exaggerated masculinity posturing on display here. Besides removing the homosexual element found in almost all Greek drama, they had to go out of their way to show off how "many" these dudes are (as if slaughtering each other isn't enough). The most egregious display was our intro to Achilles: he was in the sack with not one, but TWO babes. Wow, what a masculine macho manly man! No wonder he kicks so much ass!
There sure was a lot of posturing and posing.

 

[Todd Terwilliger]

In the Iliad, Priam does visit Achilles to claim Hector's body. In the story, however, it is more of Achilles demeaning Priam by forcing him to beg for his son's body that Achilles realizing some inner sensitivity.

 

[Holadem]

Oh please, stop hatin' on the playa

--
H

 

[Mike Broadman]

Ok, one more silly thing, and I know this was mentioned before, but I can't help myself:
What is up with Pitt's Special Move? Yes, that jumping in the air, slashing down thing. It's like Street Fighter. Just press forward-down-forward-jab to activate Achilles' Special Stabby Attack. Works well on giants and Torjan princes.

Ok, I'm done ragging on the flick for today.

 

[Greg_R]

Approximately how many gallons of Nair were used during the making of this movie? I'd guess that Paris and Achilles used about 20 gallons each... (yes, it annoyed me greatly).

 

[Greg_R]

Approximately how many gallons of Nair were used during the making of this movie? I'd guess that Paris and Achilles used about 20 gallons each... (yes, it annoyed me greatly).

 

[Jason Harbaugh]

I don't think Bloom used much of that nair as he has to wear a chest wig for his new movie.

 

[CoreyII]

Hey Holadem, I don't know how of your statement was meant to be a joke but I agree with it 100%.

Mike Broadman get over the whole manly image thing. Personally Im glad Brad Pitt played Achilles as a bad ass warrior who beds not one but two women. As a matter of fact, Pitt should get the award for the best Anakin Skywalker performance in a non-Star Wars film. The way Pitt played Achilles is the way Anakin should be played in the Star Wars prequels.

Mike, guys like you are the reason there are so many wimpy ass heroes in Hollywood films today. If you want sensitive guys who are ashamed to be men and are in touch with their feminine side then check out Patrick Stewart or David Duchovny.

Mike, judging by your statements above you seem like the type of guy that would greenlight a Freddie Prinze Jr. romantic comedy or the latest Lindsay Lohan flick.

We need more movies with bad ass male heroes. Thats why I like the Blade films because Wesley Snipes plays an unapologetic kick ass action hero.

 

[TheLongshot]

It sounds like you don't think homosexual men can be "manly". Considering Rock Hudson made a career out of being manly, I'd argue otherwise.

I don't think Mike is saying he wants "wimpy ass heroes", but he wants it to be truer to the source material, which is that Patrocles was Achilles' lover, and it was his death that sent him over the edge. The only reason why he took Briseis was that Agamemnon wanted her, and it really ticked him off that Achilles had her.

In fact, that's where this movie does wimp out. We have to have scenes where Achilles cares about Briseis' plight and have some tender, sensitive moments between the two. This is totally inconsistant with Achilles' character, who shouldn't give a shit about anyone except himself and the only person in the story which he has an emotional connection to, which is Patrocles.

The only explination for this is that we can't have Brad Pitt viewed in such a negative light, and that it may scare away the women. :rolleyes

Jason

 

[Mike Broadman]

Corey, thanks for making a bunch of (false) assumption about me. Your post was hilarious.

I make fun of the film's portrayal of Achilles precisely because their attempt at making him seem a big tough guy uses immature stereotypes, like that bedding two chicks is equated with strength. Then they cop out on the "macho" image by making him feel guilty about slaughtering people.



Yeah, that's right, I make all these movies. Sorry, guys, can't chat more 'cause I'm due on the set of "Ballerina Amazon Men." Though I can only dream of it reaching the cinematic pinnacle of achievement that is Blade.

 

[KyleK]

Hey man, I thought Achilles' Special Stabby Attack was pretty sweet!

At the very least, I'm pretty sure he was just jumping and not on any freakin' wires! I give Wolfgang Peterson props for keeping the wirefu out of his movie.

As for the movie as a whole...zzzzz...

Kyle