NBA Basketball 2004-2005 thread (1 Viewer)

[Chris]

I agree on Carmello, he's got some holes in his game with decision making.

Drew Gooden & Lebron James play as a better "selfless pair" then I had imagined, lots of good passing which leads to lots of open shots. No, Gooden isn't a point scorer, but he plays good back-em-up defense and has been good about playing a multi-pass system.

Cleaveland won't go far in the playoffs, they'd get stopped by a team like Miami, etc. but right now, they are playing pretty well and I have no problem seeing them as a playoff contender.

 

[Chris Farmer]

The top four spots in the east playoffs are pretty clear, with the rest filling in.

1. Detroin/Indy
2. Miami
3. Winner of Atlantic Division
4. Detroit/Indy

If Cleveland finishes with either the 5, 7, or 8 seed they go out in round 1. They're not gonna beat Detroit, Indy, or Miami. They'd be lucky to take that series five games. However, if they manage to finish 6 and take on whoever manages to have the least horrific record in the Atlantic division, that's a series they could win. Then they get creamed by Miami in round 2.

 

[Patrick Sun]

I think it's nutty how Lebron can pretty much see eye-level with the rim when he's dunkin'.

 

[James T]

Speaking of dunking....did anyone read/hear the Vince Carter invterview early in the week? He said that dunking was overrated and that he doesn't want to dunk anymore.

A day after that statement, he said he was just joking with the reporters (he looked pretty serious, so who knows?)

The tally of his dunks was one dunk before his "no dunk" statement (and the lone dunk was a freebie with no one past half-court...looked pretty plain too). And I believe the tally after his "it's a joke" statement is four dunks in two games(some of highlight level).

 

[Chris]

Hubie Brown steps down from the Grizzlies effective immediately, it appears, due to health concerns.. no stated reason beyond that.

 

[Seth Paxton]

Kandi-Man in Indy
First of all, when we heard the basics of the story we joked that it would be some lame bar like "Tiki Bobs" downtown (Or "Have a Nice Day Cafe"). Any of the more typical downtown pickup joints. Then we heard that it actually was.

Tazered TWICE. I saw the cop talking about it and said the first hit didn't seem to affect him. After the 2nd he finally went down to one knee.

Not mentioned nationally (that I have heard), at one point he said he wasn't leaving till he got his sweatshirt....which he was WEARING at the time. Yikes, that's drunk.

Bars close at 3 AM here. It's freaking Thanksgiving morning and you have a big game the next day. ANYONE out drunk past 3 AM on Thanksgiving probably needs some more family in their life.

I have heard plenty of stories of fans running into Pacers AFTER games in a bar late at night. I don't know about 3 AM late and wasted however. In any case, what team thinks its good to let players go out and get that drunk the night before a game?

T'Wolves really have some odd mental issues going on, the team chemistry just can't be that good.

Hubie
Can't say that the Griz will be just fine after this. He made a huge impact coming in, how can his loss not be felt going out. I wonder if health issues were already affecting his influence over the team (not respect, just his ability to give what was needed as a coach).

Damn shame either way, his story was 100% feel-good.


The game
Okay, any more questions about the Pacers depth, or about Tinsley? Yes, Kandi was out. But this was still Cassell, Hudson, KG, Hoiberg, Wally, Spree; this was the T'Wolves. And a lot of the game wasn't even as close as the final score.

IMO, if you are other East teams you should be feeling concern right about now because it seems unlikely to get any better. This is 2 games in a row that Indy had 10 point leads late in the 4th.

Home cooking helps a lot and I wonder how the youth will respond to the road, but again Indy had the best road record last year so Rick knows how to keep them focused it would seem. We will see.

For now I'll take 0 road wins and .667 at home, anything more than that is gravy.

PS - did I mention James Jones yet?
Good length, nice outside touch. Sort of makes Bender less important and more tradable.


Indy gets CHA tonight, then takes one of their nastier road swings though the weakest of the 3 four game West trips they make this year. Indy could go 3-7 over their next 10 if you count every road game as a loss, plus a loss to SAC at home. Still leaves them at 12-10 more than halfway through JO's suspension and with the injuried guys back (AJ has 3 more games on his suspension actually, Foster due back in 6-7, similar with Reggie).



Cavs
I don't know if they will end up being as weak as suggested. I think they could beat MIA in the post-season. You have to like the team's improvement so far. They have more to go, but when you consider where MIA was at this time last year you have to recognize that young teams can really tighten up by the 2nd half.

They have beaten PHX and DET so far. Granted Big Ben was out for DET, but still LJ went for 43 points!!

Plus, what's up with these numbers: DET PPG allowed = 97.5, CLE PPG All. = 90.9. Cleveland really crushed DET offense the other night, and while Ben helps there you can't blame his absence for that many missing points.


Just when you thought the worst sports of T'Day was Bears-Dallas, did anyone realize that the 2nd NBA game was freaking NJ and LAC? Yeesh.

DET
1-5 on the road, 4-1 at home. What is up with them? It's starting to bug me, esp. that road record. BTW, the 1 home loss I think we are all familiar with. Couple that with the road record and the return of some Pacers, not to mention an extremely intense Conseco crowd, and I'm starting to wonder if DET can actually win on Xmas.

I mean how do the odds look better than they did for Minny, esp once you replace Britton Johnsen, Tremaine Fowlkes, and John Edwards with Reggie, AJ and Jeff Foster. And yes, Johnsen and Fowlkes actually got some PT in the Minny game after joining the team the day before. Edwards is bad enough that he did not.


Also, Indy did just get some PEYback.
I'll be honest, the fans here did see it as some sort of revenge, esp the WORST T'day loss ever for DET.

 

[Andy Sheets]

I don't think it's quite about meshing; they seem to mesh fine. The problem is that Yao is too easily taken out of games by small players fronting him in the post. Until Van Gundy and Yao do something to overcome that defense, teams are just going to keep on shutting him down. Personally, I think they should let him face the basket more often instead of trying to turn him into Patrick Ewing.

 

[Casey Trowbridg]

The Timberwolves may have taken over the spot formerly held by the Shaq/Kobe express as the most interesting team in the NBA...and not necessarily for what happens on the court. I agree with what Seth said about the Candy Man's Thanksgiving celebration.

LeBron is awesome, just awesome.

I agree with Seth again, so see you guys we don't always disagree, about the New Jersey/Clipper game. Ok, I can sort of kind of see the logic behind New Jersey playing on Thanksgiving night seeing as how when the schedule was made it was thought that Kidd would be back by then and New Jersey hadn't ruined its team completely when the schedule was announced.

But, of all the teams in the West they could've played, why did it have to be the Clippers? What about the Clippers last year, or ever suggested that they would be a good team to showcase on Thanksgiving? I almost couldn't believe that was the game when I first saw it.

A third agreement with Seth, on the Grizzlies situation it certainly was a feel good story, and when that move was first made everyone thought it was a joke, nobody thought it was a joke after they made the playoffs last year.

I was impressed by the way the Pacers were playing last night. It has been said already once, but don't overlook the fact that when O'Neil and Jackson come back...they will have the freshest legs in the whole league, which makes them that much more dangerous come playoff time. I'd say you've got 5 playoff teams in the East, Detroit, Indiana, Miami, Cleveland, and Orlando. League rules stipulate that the Atlantic division must be represented so we'll just throw in Philadelphia since any one of the 5 teams you pick from that division will be gone in round 1 it really doesn't matter which we pick for any hypethetical scenario.

 

[Seth Paxton]

Yeah, I think I like Philly there too. Despite Ricky Davis getting his game under control (he was greatly improved over what I saw in person last year - ie, a real chucker) and Doc Rivers on the bench, they don't seem to really have it all together. Not just in wins, but in what you see on the court.

I have zero belief in Isiah to run anything basketball at this point, or with Marbury to run a team from the floor, so the Knicks don't impress me.

Toronto is an interesting one. I actually think they also have a shot at the division, but Vince Carter is all over the place emotionally.

Right now the 3 division thing is only making the East weaker come the post season.



I'll tell ya, I really think that COACHING goes a lot farther in the NBA than fans give credit for. We saw it with the Pacers as Brown took them to the next level and Bird/Carlisle/Harter took them another step past that.

You can give Isiah the whole "players were learning" thing, but this guy got handed Tinsley (who had 2 triple doubles his rookie year), O'Neal, and still had Rose and Miller (healthy), plus Foster, Croshere, Bender and Harrington. Then he got Artest and Brad Miller.

Funny how Carlisle is able to take scrubs so much farther than Isiah could go with what was basically last year's roster PLUS Brad Miller.

Turn to DET and look at Carlisle and Brown both, esp. what has been going on as Brown has been away partly. Look at the Griz, look at Stan Van Gundy's effect (that team improved over the season) in MIA.

Sloan goes without saying, Aldeman, Saunders.

I think Nate McMillan fits the classic mold as well, the solid 2nd tier player who used his brains to keep up as much as his talent. The whole "stars don't make good coaches" thing.


Don't get me wrong, one thing just as big as the coach is a ball-handling type of player who can control the offensive flow. Be it a Nash or Mark Jax type, Barkley from the post, MJ as a 2 guard, Billups as a more physical PG, just a guy that can make sure that you can always run a quality offensive set.

People think the NBA is just wide open and throwing the ball around, but there is a subtle difference between a quality shot and an open shot. Guys like to get the ball in a certain place with certain foot timing, etc. and you really do need offensive plays that work to get those.

I love playing something like ESPN 2K5 NBA to see just how effective an extra screen can be. Just play defense and let the CPU run a play on you, even when you are using your best guy and trying to stop their best guy a set of tricky screens leaves you fronting instead of playing behind him, or cutting under a screen when you needed to go around.

Coaches and ball-handling PLAYMAKERS (not just shooters) make these things happen.

 

[Casey Trowbridg]

Yeah because you could get rid of possibly the second best team in the conference in the second round. You know the easiest way to get around this is to do what the NHL does and resead everyone after the first round.

So lets say Detroit has the best record, Miami is next, and Indiana ends up with the third best record in the conference. We'll slide Philadelphia in, but after the first round Indiana would become the 3 sead and Philadelphia the 4 Making Det/Phi and Mia/Ind.

Of course that kind of thing makes sense so expect the NBA not to do it.

 

[Haggai]

We could have an endless thread on this subject alone, but in the realm of ridiculous on-air Bill Walton quotes, yesterday's Kings-Lakers game had a true classic. He was talking about Rudy T, and he said something like, "Rudy's eventually going into the Basketball Hall of Fame as a coach, and he's already in the Hall of Fame of Life." The Hall of Fame of Life?! Bill, please, just stick to the Wooden quotes when you want to say something poignant.

Speaking of Kings-Lakers, what a great finish to that game. Sacramento shot very poorly for most of the 4th quarter, but it was a great game overall, and the last 3 minutes were like 2002 Western Conference finals vintage. Tremendously exciting, clutch threes on one end answered by clutch threes on the other, etc.

 

[Casey Trowbridg]

Walton is just horrrrrrrrrible! (as he would say) and I almost changed my whole stance on the Artest thing when I found out what his position was...mainly because it was essentially the same position I held, and the fact that Walton shared it was more than troubling.

I'm still waiting for the TV that allows me to mute Walton specifically and keep all the rest of the sound.

 

[Chris Farmer]

Pass on the recommendation if you find one Casey, I'd like to have one myself.

 

[Lew Crippen]

Actually I quite like Walton as a commentator.

 

[Andy Sheets]

I like Walton, too. He makes me laugh

 

[Casey Trowbridg]

Krusty the Clown makes me laugh, but I don't think I want him commentating on NBA games. I'd take him over Walton any time though.

 

[Seth Paxton]

Walton started off decent but has since become a self-caricature with his annoying constant use of hyperbole. For some reason he is under the impression that this makes for poetic language, failing to recognize the importance of contrasting it with some subtlety once in a while.

He sounds like a 10th grade goof trying to deliver "deep" poetry for English class.



I know not a lot of people will buy into this, but let's just say that it is possible for the Pacers to win it all without Artest. Certainly I feel they have the depth to do so.

Something that then becomes interesting/helpful for the organization in an effort to REPEAT would be Artest's return the following season. You would be giving the champions an instant star, like the Spurs drafting Duncan except without losing, and on top of that you would be adding a guy to the roster with a real desire to earn a ring himself.

Artest loves to play ball, it shows in his practice efforts, his off-season routine, and in how he plays the game. The money hurts him, but I think the time off will eat at him more. By next season he will be chomping at the bit to both redeem himself and to play ball, and that means instant repeat motivation.

In that way this whole thing has set the Pacers up for 2 years worth of motivation, first as underdogs against the world then with Artest rejoining the team wanting his own part of it.

Of course this doesn't come for free, the team must be able to compete without him, but with what they have now PLUS O'Neal, Jackson, Foster, AJ, Miller and maybe Bender, I do think they are a top contender still.

The whole thing is still totally bizarro world.

 

[Lew Crippen]

Adding to the theme, the Dallas Mavricks beat the Memphis Grizzlies Saturday 98-85. Now the causal observer might think, ‘no big deal.’ In fact it has been over a week since the Mavs scored more than 100. But more strangley, it was the way they won. They held Memphis to 27 points in the second half, including only 11 in the last period.

In short, they won by playing defense.

Truly bizarre.

 

[Casey Trowbridg]

He'd fit right in in the WWE.

Dallas playing defense? What has happened to this league?

The Lakers vs. Kings game the other night was a pretty good one, and even though I'm still not sold on Sacramento and think they could implode...right now the early favorite for that possible award is still Minnesota.

I think in the East Indiana still looks like they can win it all but it becomes a long shot again when you get in to playoff series and are seeing the same team every night for an eternity and a half like last year. That will be when the Artest thing hurts especially against someone like San Antonio.

Hey, if the Pacers can pull it off that would be a great story...although they probably won't be making a movie out of it like they did for the 1980 U.S. Hockey team but who really cares about that if you've got a ring?

It helps Indiana that they'll get 2 great players with fresh legs for the stretch run, and that their record probably indactes a lower sead, but they'll miss Artest when it comes time to play all of those physical games with Detroit without a stop in Boston or a home game against Charlotte in the middle. How they make the adjustments then will ultimately be the determining factor.

Miami is 9 and 1 against the East this year and lost the one game by a point so don't discount them yet either.

Its still early, we haven't even gotten to the point in the year when we all start bitching about how long the season is yet.

 

[Scott Merryfield]

It doesn't exist. I've been looking for that option for Jerry Glanville, Brent Musburger, etc. for years.