My first "serious" camera: Looking for thoughts on Canon EOS Rebel T2i or better (1 Viewer)

[Ronald Epstein]

Sam,


I greatly appreciate the offer, but I have to finance this purchase.


Also, in another thread, you speak out against these kits yet you

recommend one of the same the same kits here.

 

[JohnRice]

It's a wonder anyone ever decides on anything with you guys "helping" them. [Edit: Yeah, that sounds harsh, but in all honesty, I meant it to, just in case anyone was curious.] This reminds me why I'm glad I no longer work in this field, either in retail sales, as a photographer or as a manufacturer's rep, all of which I have been during the last 30+ years. I also graduated from one of the world's top photography programs.


Ron, it sounds like you still have not pulled the trigger, so I will try to make it as simple as possible. Don't get too wrapped up in the minutae. Either the Rebel or the Nikon 5000 will probably be just fine. If you want the "best" all around answer, no matter what you decide on, something will come out ten minutes later you will "wish" you had gotten. So, accept it. Both the Canon and Nikon options, with their "kit" 18-55 and 55-200 or 250 are going to be about the same in any way that actually matters.


Now, to answer a couple questions. Above you linked to a 100mm Macro lens as an option to the "kit" 55-250 Canon. Those are completely different lenses. When a lens has only one focal length (100mm only, as in the case of the macro) that means it is not a zoom lens. I hope you know what that means, but just in case, that means you can't "zoom" back and forth, closer and further from the subject. The 100mm Macro is a fairly specialized lens and is unlikely to be one you would want at this point. What a Macro does is, it lets you focus very close to the subject, which is great if you want to photograph flowers, for example.


Whether or not you can use your father's lenses depends on if they are auto focus or not. If they are, you probably can. If they aren't, you can't use them. The Canon flash you might be able to use, but don't assume you can. Compatibility of older flashes can be very complicated.


The main consideration regarding a DSLR is the size. Will you carry and use it, even considering the size? If not, then skip it. Be honest. If you will use it in some cases, and you want to go to the trouble, great, even if you still want a pocket camera at times for convenience. I would just start with the two basic kit lenses and if your interest grows with time, you can always get better ones.


Just remember, even the best camera is nothing more than a hammer. Whether it is used to punch holes or built a mansion is up to the person using it.

 

[JohnRice]

BTW Ron, I know the owner of OneCall personally, though I haven't been to Spokane and seen him in about 15 years. It really is a great operation.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

John,


Thank you for the very frank advice.


First, regarding that fixed lens, now I understand. If it the lens

doesn't have a range in it specs then it is a fixed lens which I

don't want since I want to zoom in and out.


Regarding the DSLR I am looking to purchase....


After long thought, yes, I want a DSLR. The two biggest factors

for me is the QUALITY of pictures these cameras take and the

fact that they can zoom into objects from a farther distance much

better than a point-and-shoot.


As I think I noted here or in the other thread, as PRESS we

were herded into the convention auditoriums with the rest of the

commoners and had to sit in the middle of a large room. I watched

both Neil Middlemiss and Adam Gregorich get beautiful, tight shots

of the speakers on stage while me with my point-and-shoot couldn't

get in nearly as close.


So, you can see why I want a telephoto lens for that purpose.


I am down to the Canon Rebel T2i or the Nikon d5000. It seems
the Nikon is the better deal. I am considering the Canon for the speed

light I already own that is only 5 years old. If you asked me today

which one I am going with I would say the Nikon. That could change

in the next hour.


What I am a little confused about is some of the advice I am getting.


These "kits" come with a normal and telephoto lens. Sure, they aren't

the best lenses in the world but from what I saw this weekend from the

kit Neil Middlemiss purchased, he was taking great pictures while changing

out the lenses for normal or those instances where he had to zoom in
close from the back of a room.


I'll talk more about which lenses I go with in the other thread in this

forum area.


Glad to hear One Call is a solid operation. I need to finance so it will

either be Best Buy or One Call. At least with One Call I can save tax.

 

[Sam Posten]

I recommended against those kits because they DID NOT have the 18-55 in them. See the other thread for more details

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Sam,


The Canon I linked in post #36 does have the 18-55 lens
unless I am mistaken. Says so in FEATURES.


Can you do me a favor and make my life real easy?


Go to the Best Buy or One Call site and shop for me.


Send me links for a Nikon d5000 package with the
lenses you recommend. Camera and then lens.


Send me links for the Canon Rebel T2i package with

the lenses you recommend. Camera and lens.


I can then definitively decide upon them both.


Would you be willing to do that?


...and I don't mind carrying two lenses if I could

get better photos doing that.

(and thanks for the offer on the lens. I will take

it only if necessary).


In fact anyone that wants to send me links from

Best Buy or One Call on the perfect package in

both models would be appreciated.

 

[Sam Posten]

I was talking about the D5000 kits not having the 18-55 in addition to the 70-300, but it looks like I was wrong and they do.


So this best Buy kit has both:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Nikon+D5000+12.3MP+Digital+SLR+Camera+with+Bag+and+Extra+Lens/9999133700050003.p?id=pcmprd133700050003&skuId=9999133700050003&childSku=9311755&count=1


Anyway, man, the prices have risen and without the BCB you are going to pay about $200 more than I did on the 70-300 if you buy that seperately.


John Rice has listed what I would recommend you get if you decide to go via One Call here:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/forum/thread/302471/the-better-of-the-two-lens-kits#post_3713324


I'd still recommend the Costco kit with the 55-200 that you can learn with and grow into the 4x as expensive 70-300 in the future but I understand why you are limited to those two vendors. I don't see any other vendors with a similar kit to what Costco has, most bundle in a bunch of 3rd party junk you don't want, the costco kit is 100% nikon gear. If you absolutely have to buy from one or the other of OneCall or Best Buy you are going to pay very near to retail and not be able to take advantage of whatever last vestiges of Bing Cashback might still be around.


Bottom line: If you are willing to spend $1300 + tax, go with the Best Buy bundle above.

 

[Michael_K_Sr]

Man, I picked up my first DSLR a little less than a year ago (a Nikon D90) and you are going to love it once you start using it. I'd definitely recommend a class after you've used it a little. I look back at pictures I took last year before I took my first class and while I thought they looked great at the time, I'm more critical now after I learned about the relationship between shutter speed, aperture, etc. I never could have taken shots like this with my old point and shoot...

 

[Citizen87645]

I like the trees framing the fireworks and the timing for the fireworks themselves is quite good. I love the gradient in the sky too.


I'm a big proponent of the cropping tool for strengthening the composition, so I would play around with the crop on both images. Specifically I would try cropping out the smaller firework at the bottom to give the primary burst more focus.


With the mountain shot I would probably crop it to a 1x1 or 4x5 ratio so the peak on the left side hits the upper third of the frame.

 

[Marty M]

Ron, Now that you are back from Comic Con, have you made a decision on a camera yet? As several people have mentioned, you really should consider getting your equipment from B & H Photo. Their prices are much less than BB.

Keep up posted.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Hi Marty!


No decision made yet. The choice still stands between
the Nikon d5000 and the Canon t2i with a slight lean towards

the Canon since I already own a Speedlight.


I am looking to order from One Call. Reason being that

they offer 12 months financing. B&H does not. I don't

think that the price of the camera and lens I am considering

is any cheaper at B&H than at OneCall.


By the way, the shot of those fireworks is AMAZING.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

NewEgg has the Nikon D90 for $1049 which is

a pretty damn good price considering what the

price is elsewhere.


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16830113155


No financing, however.

 

[Carlo_M]

Ron - Just a warning, an entry level DSLR can be a "gateway drug" type of situation. 18 months ago I was in your exact boat and I bought the Canon XSi kit with the 18-55 and 55-250 lenses (the same lenses you're considering but a 2 generation older body).


I started to learn the craft (and it's truly a craft that you never stop learning), thought I would be happy with the great pictures I was taking. But the better I got, the more I noticed the gap between my pics and more professional pics. And I'm not talking about people with a 1D + L lenses, which I can't afford at my current salary, but with people with slightly better lenses. So I went and bought the 17-55 f/2.8 and immediately my pictures improved due to the better optics, constant aperture (I love taking museum shots which are low-light) and faster, more reliable focusing. Of course that lens cost $1K. Then I realized that others with that lens but better bodies were getting better shots and I realized with that glass that the XSi was the limiting factor.


So what did I do? I now own a 7D. Now the body and the glass are about equivalent, and I'm really maximizing my skill (which is now the limiting factor, not the body or the glass). I have no doubt that in a few years, I'll probably be looking to replace the 7D with the latest equivalent. I'm not sure I'll step into full frame, or else I will have to sell my 17-55 lens since that's an EF-S.


With regards to the zoom - I will be upgrading my 55-250 eventually. But I admit I haven't used it as much as I thought I would, so I won't upgrade until closer to my next overseas vacation. I'm looking at the 70-200L f/4 IS USM, but that's going to set me back $1200.


Oh, and even though most still prefer a camcorder for HD movies, I will say that I do like the few HD videos I've taken with the 7D (which I believe the T2i also does). It's a much more manual process than a camcorder, but once you get used to it, the videos you can dial in are pretty sweet.


Good luck, and sorry about your wallet! I just wanted to warn you about the addicting nature of the hobby. Most of us in HT have "addictive" style personalities, and so I know that the better you get at photography, the more you're going to be tempted to buy a better body and lens.


Oh, and I see above you're looking at Nikons now too. Keep in mind the bodies will change regularly over time, it's really the lenses that you're going to be locked into. So before you choose a Canon/Nikon/etc. be sure to research the lenses and be prepared that whichever way you go, once you start buying the more expensive lenses the more you're locked in to your choice. I don't think you can go wrong with either Nikon or Canon, but realize that unless you want to start over with your purchases later down the line, the body you choose now will likely be the company you're wedded to for the rest of your shooting life (unless you've got a lot of disposable income).

 

[Carlo_M]

And here's a quick sample of fireworks I shot in San Diego this last 4th of July. No post-processing done, just a quick crop of the JPEG direct from the 7D (I shoot in RAW+JPEG most of the time). It was my first time shooting fireworks, my first time using Bulb exposure, and my first time using the new RC-6 remote I bought.


Which brings me to another point. For most shots that aren't candids (landscapes, scenery, night shots, telephoto), you're likely going to want to buy and use a tripod in order to get the sharpest shots and to be able use the broadest range of shutter speed and aperture while keeping ISO low.

 

[Citizen87645]

Very nice Carlo. You should start posting more stuff on Flickr!

 

[Sam Posten]

Very nice Carlo, I like that shot and the crop you used.


Here's my favorite firework shot from this year:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kadath/4756298023/in/set-72157624410487328/




Second favorite:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kadath/4756298389/


Full set:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kadath/sets/72157624410487328/with/4756298023/


And my favorite 'almost hand held' firework shot from this year:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kadath/4759055151/in/set-72157624416669456/



Full set:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kadath/sets/72157624416669456/with/4759055151/


Woohoo, we got a serious thread derail going here! Choochoooooooo.

 

[Scott Merryfield]

Great fireworks shot, Carlo. Having the San Diego skyline visible makes all the difference in the shot. Sam, yours turned out well, too.


I was hoping to get some decent fireworks shots at Niagara Falls on our recent visit -- they shoot them off over the Falls on Friday and Sunday nights. However, the viewing spot we selected ended up almost right under where they went off, so I couldn't get both the lighted Falls and fireworks in a single shot.

 

[Bryan X]

I'll second what Carlo said regarding an entry level DSLR being a gateway drug. I started out with a Canon 350D and the EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS. It wasn't long before I picked up the EF 85mm f/1.8. But what really pulled me in was buying my first "L" lens; the EF 70-200mm f/4 L.fa f f


After that I just *had* to buy a new body and bought the Canon 50D. Then, after buying the 50D I went on a bit of a lens binge and bought all the following in the span of less than 12 months:


EF 35mm f/1.4 L

EF 70-200mm f/2.8 L (& sold the EF 70-200mm f/4)

EF 24-70mm f/2.8 L

EF 24-105mm f/4 IS L

EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5


The only upside is that I haven't had the itch to buy any more lenses lately.


If you do decide to go Canon, a great resource for Canon lens and gear reviews is www.the-digital-picture.com

 

[Carlo_M]

You guys are too kind. I'm still just plugging away and learning new things every day. It's funny but as I progress I have trouble looking at my older shots because I think "man if I could do it over again I would meter for a different part of the picture, underexpose, and blah...blah...blah..."


My "to buy" list will probably include:

EF 70-200 f/4 IS USM (because I can't afford the 2/8 II IS USM)

And hopefully an as-yet-unannounced prime 35mm or 50mm EF-S lens. All of Canon's primes are EF only and of course on the crop factor of the 7D and Rebel series, a 35mm = 56mm and a 50mm = 80mm. I'm hoping that Canon will begin to seriously support its crop cameras with a small line of fast, prime lenses. Preferably f/1.8 or f/1.4. I love my EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 but that darned thing is heavy (especially mounted on the 7D which was way heavier than my XSi).

 

[Bryan X]

Originally Posted by Carlo Medina The only additional lens I have even slightly had the urge to buy is the EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 L. But I'd only use it for my son's Track & Field season so I can't justify it at this point. I did get a 1.4x extender to go with my EF 70-200mm f/2.8 L and that combo does a decent job for Track & Field.