LOST... Help me make sense of my new HDMI surround system... PLEASE! (1 Viewer)

[Daptin]

I am new to this forum. I have invested in what I thought would be a decent home theater system, but the results are extremely disappointing. On top of that, I moved to the Republic of Panama and I really don't know who to talk to about this...Your input is badly needed...

SYSTEM:
TV: Sony KDL-40V4100
Blu-Ray: Panasonic DMP-BD30
AMP: Sony STR-DG820
Speakers: Bose Acoustimass (this is the only "old" component, about four year old, with subwoofer and 5 double cubes)

CONNECTIONS:
Best available second generation HDMI cables (2)
I did not have enough cables (hidden in the walls and ceiling) so I connected the subwoofer with the Amp as I should have, but with the exception of the center speaker - which I connected directly to the Amp.

REMARKS: I could have purchased a Sony Blu-Ray player instead of a Panasonic, but in Panama the Panasonic is able to play Zone 1 and Zone 4 DVDs...

PROBLEM: The sound is more or less OK... But I almost cannot hear the surround speakers. I'll be watching a DVD or a BD and all of the sudden (when the movie features music) the subwoofer kicks in, rather loudly. I might have well no surround speakers. I have to sit next to them to hear anything. Why can't I enjoy all these theater movie effects? I must have done something wrong. Or maybe, with so many variants, I am not selecting the proper configuration. I have proceeded through trial and error. Basically I feel like an idiot for wasting money on a system, when I could have bought a basic Sony home theater for much less, complete with speakers and all... Thank you in advance!

 

[JohnRice]

You don't have a sub, you have a bass module which is nothing like a sub. this is important because the Bose "Bass" module is not connected to the sub output on your receiver.

Your main problem is probably that you have not calibrated the system. Once everything is connected, you have to balance the levels of all the channels to get proper playback, or things are out of balance, which they are. There are probably already a thousand threads on this topic in this forum, so a little searching will easily find the solution.

 

[JohnRice]

BTW, sorry for the sarcastic response, but it is your first post here and you will help yourself to do some looking around first. This situation truly has been asked about hundreds of times.

 

[Daptin]

Sarcasm, my dear, I can handle… Your reply however does not get me an inch closer to a solution. My Bose system is indeed not a sub but a module (I’m learning the lingo) and it is not connected to the amp through the subwoofer audio out: the speaker connections (with the exception of the center speaker) go from the amp to the module and out of the module to the speakers. I did not have to visit this learned forum to suspect that I had to calibrate each speaker individually… the operating instructions of the Sony STR-DG820 had already hinted that. (This amp comes with a little mike which supposedly does the calibration automatically, but it does not seem to work for me, so I had to do it manually). In other words, my problem does not seem to originate from a lack of calibration. Therefore the thousand threads on calibration are not as helpful as I wish they were. Which threads should I visit before I dare asking for help?

 

[David Willow]

It does not seem likely that you will be able to calibrate the Bose with the Sony. I believe the Bose is made to work with Bose. Unless you can physically connect each speaker to the AVR I believe you will continue to have problems.

 

[Daptin]

Thank you David! That's an interesting insight... It would make sense since the audio is processed first by the amp and then by the module... I can calibrate the speakers through the amp, but I have absolutely no control over the module - which is not a recent unit. Then, what are my options? Would it be wise to hook the Bose speakers directly to the amp and ditch the module? (The Bose manual warns about an electric shock if I do that - and presumably seven years of bad luck to boot...). Since this thread appears to lead nowhere fast, I should probably start a new thread titled "What happens when you cut off Bose speakers from an Acoustimass module and plug them directly to an amp?" That may invite more sarcasm, but I am really wondering if I run the risk of damaging the little cubes... Plus, what would I do with the module? Could I use it as a stand alone sub? (Maybe I could connect say the RS module input to the amp subwoofer audio out?). Again, I do apologize for my ignorance, but I am a sound lover, not a sound engineer...

 

[Daptin]

OK guys... spare me any further witty remarks... Now that David hinted that BOSE was the problem, I searched this forum and could confirm, to my deep consternation, that BOSE sucks. What's next? ROLEX can't keep time? Even worse, I realize all I can do with my Acoustimass is to use it as an expensive doorstop... I can neither use it as a sub, nor connect the little cubes to my amp, as the results would likely be disappointing... Terrible news... I will now troll the forum for advice on reasonably priced subwoofer and speakers...

 

[David Willow]

What do you consider reasonably priced? Do you have to have small speakers?

 

[Daptin]

I realize that I don't need a HTiB, since I already have a new amp and a BD player. All I will need is a 5.1 set of speakers. The front speakers will need to fit on actual bookshelves, which limits the size to about 10" X 10" X 10". The sub size is not too important. As for the 2 surround speakers, I would appreciate small size. My problem is that I would have to buy this equipment in the US and bring it back to Panama in a suitcase...

If possible, I would like to order through Amazon.com and I would prefer to spend under 500K (please don't laugh me off of this forum... I promise not to use the B*** word again!).

For example, Amazon offers the Polk RM 705 at $400.00
and the Polk RM 6880 at $509.00 (sorry the system does not allow me to post the links).

I am not sophitiscated enough to determine which would work with my new equipment... Would you recommend another brand? (I am sitting 9 feet away from my 40 inch Bravia TV, so maybe I don't need a superpowerful equipment). Your input is well appreciated!

 

[gene c]

Sorry to hear of your surround sound problems. And yes, Bose does create a little sarcasm but you seem to be headed in the right direction.

As for which speaker package you should get, I'll offer a couple more suggestions. On the lower end, the Infinity tss-450 or 500 are decent systems for the price but don't expect reference quality sound

.

The Infinity Primus Pack is 5 "real" speakers (but relatively small) for around $375 but you'll need to shop for a sub as well.

This one from HSU research might be ideal for you, but a few dollars more. HSU is renowned for their subwoofers and their Ventriloquist Package is pretty amazing.

There are many others. You can use Amazon.com or Pricegrabber.com (click on Electronics>Speakers>Home Theater Packagers) to see what else is available. Hope this helps.

 

[JohnRice]

You should be able to calibrate the Bose relatively well. They will still be Bose though.

 

[Daptin]

Thank you Gene! Not only for the tips but also for the indication that I might be able to get a full set of speakers around $500.00... I am not familiar with HSU but I bought several Infinity speakers during the last 30 years. What about Polk? After the B*** debacle, I am wondering if there are other well-known brands I should stay clear from...

 

[Daptin]

Thank you John! Actually, I spent hours calibrating and tinkering before I joined this Forum, but to no avail... Now I know the B*** is the weakest link of my system (I'm still shell shocked) and my only way out is to replace all the speakers. The challenge is to find a decent 5.1 set + a (real) powered sub at my current limited budget... Any brand you would recommend or that I should avoid?

 

[JohnRice]

People here like to bash Bose, but what you are experiencing indicates another problem. No, I don't know what it is. Possibly playing back with a non surround audio mode.

There are many decent brands, and many that you have heard of. Bose is somewhat unique, in a negative way. The expensive part is the sub. Decent subs are expensive, very expensive.

 

[gene c]

I also think your current speakers are the weak link in your system, but JohnRice is correct (as usual) in that it may not be the cause of your problem. But I wonder if wiring your center speaker to the receiver and by-passing the bass module has somehow affected (or infected

) the performance of the surrounds. In any event, I'd like to see you figure out exactly what the problem is first before buying new speakers. I'd hate to see you spend $500 and wind up having the same problem again.

What I like to do in order to check the surrounds is to play a two channel source, like a cd or stereo tv program, and set the receiver to "5/7 Channel Stereo". Since the surrounds will be receiving pretty much the same signal as the fronts, the volume should be at or near that of the front speakers from the "sweet spot". If not, then something's a-miss.

 

[Daptin]

 

[Daptin]

Thank you JohnRice and Gene... I really appreciate this nuanced approach. Before jumping to the obvious conclusion and place the blame squarely on the Acoustimass, it's worth taking into account that I am a neophyte and that I may be unable to properly adjust my amp's settings...

When I place a CD into my BD player, and switch to music, then use the A.F.D. key on my remote (Sony AV System RM-AAP021) I have a few options. One of them is MULTI ST. Then the sound comes with a comparable intensity from all the speakers, including the surround speakers. These are not the surround effects I would expect, but at least I can tell that the the surround speakers are not deaf.

I would not look overly smart if I replaced all the speakers and found out that my problem originates with wrong amp settings... Your further input is highly valued!

 

[gene c]

O.K. Now we know the surround speakers are working. Step number two: Using the same cd, is there a Dolby Pro Logic or DTS Neo:6 option? If so, this would give you the surround effects you are looking for.

Also, may I ask what you were using (cd, BluRay, dvd, tv, etc.) when you calibrated your system before? And what was displayed on your receiver (Dolby, DTS, ProLogic, stereo, etc.) while you were calibrating? This will tell us what you should have heard.

 

[JohnRice]

You're headed in the right direction now. I expect you will find the real problem is an improper connection or surround mode.

 

[Daptin]

Thank you John... I will keep investigating and report to Gene. The Acoustimass is probably not perfect, but maybe I can keep it for a while before upgrading for better speakers.