Is the Classic-Film Blu-ray Market Drawing to a Close? (2 Viewers)

[Robert Crawford]

As soon as I realized Amazon was selling both Blow Out and Sweet Smell of Success for under $19 each, I placed my order. I'm sure many classic film enthusiasts such as myself did the same thing once they became aware of Amazon's sale.







Crawdaddy

 

[benbess]

I still think some studio people are looking at that list with their mouths agape. They may be wondering how they can sprinkle magic dust on their old titles and make them do that.


Criterion has quite an impressive business model. I think it may be called quality sells itself. They've become so known among film fans that any time they slap that blu C on an often quite obscure title it seems to do pretty well even at a premium price....

 

[benbess]

Originally Posted by Robert Crawford

As soon as I realized Amazon was selling both Blow Out and Sweet Smell of Success for under $19 each, I placed my order. I'm sure many classic film enthusiasts such as myself did the same thing once they became aware of Amazon's sale.







Crawdaddy

You might want to consider Chaplin's Modern Times if you don't have it on blu. I just got that one...


PS Sweet Smell of Success has now cracked the top ten at amzn and is at #9...

 

[Douglas R]

Surely the problem is that most classic film enthusiasts already have their favourite films on DVD and do not see the point in upgrading them for the Blu-ray versions which often provide no more than marginal improvements (certainly not the major improvement from VHS to DVD). I, for one, am not going to destroy the investment I have made in a 1,000 plus DVD collection, other than to upgrade for a few special titles such as HOW THE WEST WAS WON or THE TEN COMMANDMENTS. In a way, Blu-ray came to late (when people had already built up their collections) - and too soon (before sufficient time had elapsed to make it reasonable to consider upgrading).

 

[MatthewA]

One thing nobody has mentioned:


Some of the remaining big box stores won't carry classics. There are three Best Buys in a 30-mile radius of my house. I used to go there all the time for my classic movie and TV show purchases, whether impulse or planned. If I couldn't find it I'd try Wal-Mart or Target, then I'd check Barnes and Noble or Borders. If I didn't find it, it was off to Amazon. After having to look in four different stores to find the most recent season of Designing Women, I don't bother with any of them.

 

[mdnitoil]

Originally Posted by Douglas R

Surely the problem is that most classic film enthusiasts already have their favourite films on DVD and do not see the point in upgrading them for the Blu-ray versions which often provide no more than marginal improvements (certainly not the major improvement from VHS to DVD). I, for one, am not going to destroy the investment I have made in a 1,000 plus DVD collection, other than to upgrade for a few special titles such as HOW THE WEST WAS WON or THE TEN COMMANDMENTS. In a way, Blu-ray came to late (when people had already built up their collections) - and too soon (before sufficient time had elapsed to make it reasonable to consider upgrading).

For me this is the answer. I'm, for the most part, perfectly content with the SD versions of the movies I already own. At this point, I'm simply trying to fill holes in my collection, which Blu is in no way positioned to help me with. From a classic film perspective, it's almost exclusively a double-dip market, which isn't an automatic deal-breaker, but the previous dip just wasn't that long ago. About the only Blu I can see myself interested in as I look ahead is the possible future release of The Magnificent Ambersons or a Showboat set, since those would essentially be all-new purchases for me. That's a pretty darn light list to build a whole new format around, and I'm supposed to be one of the target customers.

 

[Edwin-S]

If they put out "classics" that I cared about at a price point that didn't feel like I had to amputate an arm, I would purchase them. So far, they haven't put out any "classics" that I would care to own, other than Patton. I couldn't care less about Gone With The Wind, The Sound of Music, or The Wizard of Oz, just to name a few. I did think about purchasing The Ten Commandments for all of about 60 seconds, after seeing the 60+ dollar price tag. At 60 bucks, it would have to be a classic of the proportions of Lawrence of Arabia before I would even contemplate paying that price. There are a lot of the Disney animated classics that I would like to pick up but at an average price of 33 bucks a pop (not including sales taxes), I've decided I don't need them badly enough anymore. They can sit on the shelf.

 

[GMpasqua]

Much of the problem was mentioned at the Bl-ray conference: Amazon said - the blu-rays are priced too high, when they run a sale they sell catalog, but if you can buy the DVD for $9.99 why wopuld you buy the blu-ray for $29.99


Besides once people buy the lastest release, they look into buying favorite catalog titles, and in the fall when Christmas rolls around and Amazon starts having their $9.99 sales people will buy them. I know I have held off buy "Arthur" "King of Kings" "A Beautiful Mind" "Moonstruck" and "Excalibur" because in 3 months they'll will be selling for $9.99, I know if I wait until the 6 month window has passed these will go on sale ("Excailbur" used to be on sale on DVD all the time and way under $10)


"True Grit" 2010 : will be a sale purchase for me too, we all know it will drop to $10 before Christmas

 

[Robert Crawford]

Originally Posted by benbess




You might want to consider Chaplin's Modern Times if you don't have it on blu. I just got that one...


PS Sweet Smell of Success has now cracked the top ten at amzn and is at #9...

I already have that BR title.







Crawdaddy

 

[benbess]

Originally Posted by Edwin-S

If they put out "classics" that I cared about at a price point that didn't feel like I had to amputate an arm, I would purchase them. So far, they haven't put out any "classics" that I would care to own, other than Patton. I couldn't care less about Gone With The Wind, The Sound of Music, or The Wizard of Oz, just to name a few. I did think about purchasing The Ten Commandments for all of about 60 seconds, after seeing the 60+ dollar price tag. At 60 bucks, it would have to be a classic of the proportions of Lawrence of Arabia before I would even contemplate paying that price. There are a lot of the Disney animated classics that I would like to pick up but at an average price of 33 bucks a pop (not including sales taxes), I've decided I don't need them badly enough anymore. They can sit on the shelf.

Of course your views are completely valid, but...


With coupons from Disney movie reward coupons of c. $8-10 if you already own the DVD (check out this site):


http://www.disneymovierewards.go.com/index.htm


plus sales, the price can often be closer to $20 or even less for a Disney title.

Ten Commandments was on sale at Amazon for a few days recently at $18 and under, at which point I grabbed the 2 disc set.


I too sometimes wait for the under $10 price, but I think blu-rays for really good movies represent a good value at $20 or even a bit more. Just my 2 cents. I didn't have very large a DVD collection, and I started slowly getting rid of it when I got my blu-ray player. I never quite loved DVDs the way I love blu-rays.

 

[benbess]

Originally Posted by Robert Crawford




I already have that BR title.







Crawdaddy

How does it look? Can't wait for The Gold Rush, City Lights, The Circus, etc.

 

[Ed Lachmann]

Originally Posted by Douglas R

Surely the problem is that most classic film enthusiasts already have their favourite films on DVD and do not see the point in upgrading them for the Blu-ray versions which often provide no more than marginal improvements (certainly not the major improvement from VHS to DVD).

I feel the same the way about many in my collection, especially the 4:3 DVD's many of which would be just a bit better in blu-ray. The widescreen films are a whole different story, however. There is an incredible improvement in films like "Ten Commandments" and How the West Was Won" in blu-ray. The regular DVD's of scope films were always hazy, soft and disappointing. What I also wonder about is this question of restoration. I'm reasonably certain that MGM did not not do a full reconstruction of "Taras Bulba" for the Australian blu-ray release, the same is probably the case with "King of Kings". They found the best print they could and telecined it at 1080 and pressed the blu-rays. The standard DVD of "Taras" looked awful but was probably the same 1080 transfer reduced for a standard DVD release. Somehow, though, the blu of the same is a revelation. What would it cost the studios to press blu's of 1080 masters they already have? I know, I know, that's why the "Spartacus" and "Greatest Story" were sub-standard, but, they were from much older masters. The more recent transfers for hi-def broadcast are markedly better. I guess I'm just wondering why something you already have, transferred on equipment you already own and pressed on machines you have a room full of would fail to make you a reasonable profit.

 

[Edwin-S]

The other problem is that a lot of the older classics are being released in these special collector sets. For example, take The Ten Commandments that I mentioned in the other post. I actually did think about picking that one up, but that giant box just turned me off because of the amount of shelf space it needs. I also don't need plastic tablets and other assorted junk. All I need is the movie and extras in a standard case that will fit on my shelf with all of my other discs. TTC did have a standard release but, of course, it did not contain the earlier B&W film which the box set did, therefore purchasing the standard release was a non-starter.

 

[benbess]

The King of Kings was an MGM title but is now part of the Warner Library. To me it doesn't look quite as good as the VistaVision titles, but short of that it's pretty impressive. It looks to me like they did a frame by frame clean up from the original 70mm camera negative. That's just a guess from a non professional, but in any case it looks great. If you like the movie, I think you'll find it a big upgrade from the dvd...

 

[Patrick McCart]

I think the classics market is just changing.


It would be more practical to have HD editions available of "lower tier" and lower demand films as downloads. It would be great if Warner Archives started to offer 1080p downloads via iTunes, for example.


The bigger films either get varying degrees of treatment from the rights owner or are licensed out. Criterion released 23 films from before 1970 last year. It's already at 21 by the time July's releases are out. Kino is putting out a silent release every three months.


Major studios are generally cheap(er) on releases. Buying all of Warner's Kubrick releases wouldn't even cost $100 new and the remastered DVD box from 2001 cost $200 cheapest for a long time.

 

[Edwin-S]

Originally Posted by benbess



Of course your views are completely valid, but...


With coupons from Disney movie reward coupons of c. $8-10 if you already own the DVD (check out this site):


http://www.disneymovierewards.go.com/index.htm


plus sales, the price can often be closer to $20 or even less for a Disney title.

Ten Commandments was on sale at Amazon for a few days recently at $18 and under, at which point I grabbed the 2 disc set.


I too sometimes wait for the under $10 price, but I think blu-rays for really good movies represent a good value at $20 or even a bit more. Just my 2 cents. I didn't have very large a DVD collection, and I started slowly getting rid of it when I got my blu-ray player. I never quite loved DVDs the way I love blu-rays.

The Sony Playstation Network debacle that is presently going on is one of the main reasons why I don't like online shopping. Thanks to the idiots at Sony, I'm probably going to have cancel my credit card because, apparently, some hacker has gotten every piece of personal information that was provided to Sony when I and a few million others signed up for their PSN service.

 

[Rick Thompson]

I still don't know why people think streaming is going to replace Blu-ray or even DVD. Maybe if you have a super-fast trunk line, but otherwise forget it. Consider: Out here in non-Metro Maryland (one hour out of DC) I recently started to download a trial version of a program. Size: 2.1 gigabytes, not quite half the capacity of a DVD. I cancelled when I saw the estimated time: 2.3 DAYS. You think I'll tie up my computer four days to download a DVD? Or over a week for HD? If you do, can I have some of what you're smoking?

 

[Cinescott]

Originally Posted by Patrick McCart

It would be more practical to have HD editions available of "lower tier" and lower demand films as downloads. It would be great if Warner Archives started to offer 1080p downloads via iTunes, for example.

This is a great marketing plan. Distribute the lesser-selling titles via streaming and broadband and save the rest for both.

 

[Ed Lachmann]

Originally Posted by Patrick McCart
It would be more practical to have HD editions available of "lower tier" and lower demand films as downloads. It would be great if Warner Archives started to offer 1080p downloads via iTunes, for example.

The day I have to download movies I want from iTunes and wait the hundred or so years for a two hour plus 1080p feature to get there is the day I stop owning or collecting them at all. I would love Warner Archives to press or burn and sell me the blu-rays, however. I will never join the "hard drive" movie club, I'm afraid. Just me. Lost too many corrupted files and had too many hard drive break downs to put any faith in it.

 

[Mark Oates]

I think "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" is a big chunk of the largely negative view people have of the BD market - just because we don't see movies coming out that we like, we assume the BD market is dying like a duck in a thunderstorm. Personally I think it is a damn sight healthier than most of us care to admit. While we're not seeing the feeding frenzy of the DVD boom (when all kinds of titles were coming out left, right and centre), we are seeing a steady stream of titles of a fairly varied content. Admittedly we're seeing few "classics", but I'd say as confidence builds (when they see the sales for the Star Wars collection), we're bound to see some movement.


I also think that BD is suffering from a lot of negativity from the public. There are still an awful lot of naysayers who don't believe the resolution hike is that great, and certainly not worth the premium. There's waaaaaaay to much bitching in the videophile fraternity (we can't let them get away with bad transfers, but the overall impression given by these forums tends to be negative, and Studio suits are sensitive little souls (possibly borderline bipolar, so kid gloves are needed). Lastly there's the whole question of 3D, which has come on the heels of HD way too soon. I suspect a lot of consumers aren't investing in HD kit because they're waiting for no-glasses 3D, and they will expect their favourite classics to be retrofitted to match the latest look-I'm-poking-you-in-the-forehead-isn't-it-annoying? 3D blockbusters.