Impressions of my new JVC DLA-RS1 Front Projector (1 Viewer)

[Patrick Bennett]

Dennis called me and my RS1 shipped today. I'll have it Thursday!
I'll be sending my G-11 back to him for the trade-in offer once I get everything set up and confirmed. It was a good deal overall, and if Dennis can find a home for my G-11, all the better. I probably would've had a hard time selling it to be honest.

I can't wait to check out the RS1 being fed by my new Samsung BPD-1200.

 

[RAF]

I'll be very interested to read your opinion of the RS-1 when it arrives, Patrick, especially since you are upgrading from a previous JVC model. Thursday should be a very exciting day in the Bennett household!

 

[Patrick Bennett]

An exciting day indeed.
The G-11 was, for its time, pretty much one of the best bang-for-the-buck digital projector around. I fondly remember your VPL-xxx threads (and it was in the running for a while because of you :>), but the G-11 was one of the earliest viable DILA (JVC's name for LCOS, or SXRD [sony's name]) projectors and compared to regular LCD there was just no contest. The color from the G series with their Xenon bulbs was excellent and *consistent* since Xenon bulbs degrade in their color spectrum pretty consistently. In particular, the fill-factor of the DILA panels was (and is) unmatched by any other digital technology. DLP, particularly in the early days, was a complete joke. When the G series was paired with an anamorphic lens (since it was a 4x3 format panel [1366x1024]) it was as good as or better than projectors costing much, much more (and for many years).

It was only because the G series was so great that I've kept it so long. However, the RS1 will be a *massive* upgrade for me. I think a calibrated G-11 had a contrast ratio of maybe 800:1, so the RS1 will be... a step up to say the least.

Hopefully it works out well on my Stewart Greyhawk MicroPerf screen. The Greyhawk was first created by Stewart for projectors like the G-series from JVC to get better black levels and perceived contrast. Now that the RS1 is so phenomenal out of the box, hopefully it doesn't have too much of an affect on the image. I've heard enough comments from people seeing it on Greyhawk screens to think I'll be fine.

Replacing the screen would just be way too expensive right now.

I'll post my thoughts in a little bit... I'm guessing it'll just be something like WOW.

 

[Mike Rollett]

If all goes well, I'll be getting one for myself next week. I've seen it a bunch of times and it hasn't failed to impress. In fact, I may be doing a side-by-side comparison tomorrow with a Sharp Z20000 (the current holy grail of DLP projectors), so that should be interesting.

 

[johnathan]

Robert
I sent you a PM with the prebuy price. Johnathan

 

[Patrick Bennett]

You don't have to hide the price here Johnathan. This isn't AVS.
What was the price?

 

[RAF]

Yes, Patrick, I remember the JVC/Sony "discussions" (especially in regards to MVS which carried them both) from the 1999-2000 time frame. As I recall, I did consider the JVC (especially when the VW10HT Sony was delayed) but two things deterred me at the time. One, as you said, was the fact that it was a native 4:3 device and I wanted native 16:9. I realize that this could be corrected with a lens but I wanted to keep things simple. Additionally, didn't the JVC at that time have some fan noise issues? The VW10HT was whisper quiet compared to it.

In any event, both projectors back at the turn of the century served us well and look how our FPs have converged at this point!

 

[Patrick Bennett]

Yup!

p.s. I still have really fond memories of that first HTF Hollywood tour a bunch of us took. Ahhhhh, the good 'ol days.

 

[Rob Tomlin]

I've had my JVC RS1 for a couple of months now, and I am extremely happy with it. For a LCoS based display, it is much sharper than prior LCoS projectors such as the Pearl and Ruby. It is more "DLP like" in that regard.

And of course the contrast ratio is a new breakthrough for digital projectors.

As Robert says in his review, this projector is very revealing, and poor sources will look very poor, but the best 1080p sources will look spectacular.

I highly recommend this projector. The performance/price ratio makes it a fantastic bargain.

 

[Alan Kurland]

Hey Patrick and RAF, I was on that first HTF Hollywood tour as well! Anyway I talked to Dennis at MVS, he said "fortunately" Patrick's RS1 was sent out, "unfortunately" there are none left, but "fortunately" they're expecting more in a few weeks. I think I can wait until then, so I'll be expecting an analysis from Patrick after this weekend!

Do I need an external scaler as well? or maybe to convert SD to HD?

 

[Patrick Bennett]

I don't think so. The RS1 has what's supposed to be one of the best scalers in the business built-in - the Gennum. *However*, reports are that it's not necessarily fully enabled. I've seen mixed reviews on AVS about the built-in scaling, but they're varied enough that it's hard to really say either way.

I would say, no, you don't need an external scaler. Not unless you plan to use something like an anamorphic lens and a 2.35 aspect screen.

What will be your SD sources? Satellite/Cable ? If it's SD DVDs, then I would recommend something like the excellent Samsung BD-P1200 Blu-Player which does an *outstanding* job upconverting SD DVDs to 1080p (and is of course a nice Blu-Ray player as well ;>).
For cable, I've got an HD cable tuner and I'll have to play around with it to see if I want to have it upconvert the 480i sources to 1080i for the RS1, or have the RS1 convert the 480i itself. I'm guessing the RS1 will do a much better job.

 

[RAF]

Ah, yes. The infamous "hushbox!" I remember the discussions well. I really didn't want to be adding one of those to the mix so I held out for the Sony VW10HT. As I recall , the predecessor to the VW10HT (the "400?) had some noise issues and hushboxes were often employed as well. The lack of noise (comparatively speaking) on the VW10HT was a major selling point - and it delivered on that promise.

Incidentally, these reports of the RS-1 being "noisy" (relative to the Pearl and some others like the Mitsu 5000) are hard for me to understand after having lived with the RS-1 for five weeks now. I can honest say it's quieter than my Sony and Runco were (and they weren't loud by any stretch of the imagination. As I stated in my article, the RS-1 is so quiet that I actually thought the fan was off when I turned the projector off (during the normal cool-down cycle for UHP bulbs). I literally had to place my hand near the air output to convince myself it was, in fact, still on. If a person tries to downgrade the RS1 for "noisy operation" they are really stretching things just to find something negative to say, in my opinion.

Memories.

(And fond Hollywood memories as well). Are you coming to Vegas with us? The EMA should be a blast with studios coming to us instead of the other way around.

 

[Patrick Bennett]

We're kind of getting the thread a bit off-track, but no, I hadn't planned on it. You're probably not the most unbiased person to ask, but do you really think there is much to 'get out of' this trip?

 

[RAF]

Hi Alan!

As to the external scaler requirement I have a DVDO iScan VP50 so I just plugged it in to the RS1 when it arrived. I haven't bothered to even try the RS1 without the external scaler since I use the VP50 as a video switching device for all my sources. I'm a big proponent of what I call the "component approach to video" (the phrase is linked to my thoughts on this matter) and to me there's a lot more to external scaling than just how well individual components behave. The fact is that if a unit's scaler and VP is good or bad doesn't have to enter into the equation with the component approach. Besides, even if the unit has a great scaler there is bound to be something that comes along a short time later which outperforms the on-board scaler and you either have to buy a new projector or live with the older technology. I've found that DVDO (as well as other quality VP manufacturers) ofter incremental upgrades via daughter boards and firmware releases which add additional features. This was brought home to me a couple of years ago when DVDO produced a new algorithm for 480i to 1080p scaling that took the industry by storm. If you have access to native 480i via HDMI from SD DVDs it does a remarkable job. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

That said, from what I've read the RS1 internal scaling isn't that bad and, as others have mentioned, you have other (less expensive) alternatives than a full blown external VP to work around anything you don't like. Some of the newer players are doing some great upscaling to 1080p. In fact, the recent firmware upgrade on the PS3 (version 1.8) has people raving about how good it makes 480i SD DVDs look at 1080p. I think that the former upscaling on the PS3 was pretty bad (once again I wouldn't really see this since everything goes through my VP50) and now PS3 owners without external scalers are seeing exactly what the difference is between bad and good scaling.

 

[Patrick Bennett]

Ok, I got my RS1 today, and... as I predicted: WOW!

To start, the delivery guy showed up and had the box on the truck, wanting me to sign. Oh no you don't... I'm not signing anything until I see that box! (Images of a box with a fork-truck hole punched through the side come to mind [seen it before]). The box was fine, and lighter than expected. It freaked me out a bit when, looking through the 'handle' opening in the side of the box, the side of the projector was visible [with a fair bit of air space at least]. That made me a tad nervous, but the box was in good shape.

I brought it in (more of a run, really

) and started opening it up right away. Packaging was simple, but effective. Ok, yeah, yeah, rip-rip, tear-tear (nah, I took off the protective wrap very carefully) and lo and behold... woa - this thing is gorgeous! I was surprised how nice looking the projector actually was. Pictures don't do it justice. It's a very nice, high-end looking projector.

Ok, now, off to the theater to hook it up to give it a quick spin. The projector mount still isn't in yet (I ordered it and the projector over a month ago, but Dennis kept forgetting to ship it I guess - he said he'd make sure I had it by tomorrow [we'll see :>]) so I decided to just set it up on a large granite bar-height counter I've got in the back of my theater for the third row of seats. Since I need to test my 25' HDMI cables anyway before pulling them through the conduit in the ceiling, I probably would've done it this way anyway, with or without the mount.

So, first things first - blu-ray! HDMI cable from my Samsung BD-P1200 to the RS1, power both on, and...
WOA! It's MUCH brighter than I expected (early reports/speculation on AVS made it seem like it would have relatively low light output). I made some real quick zoom/focus/shift adjustments to get it on the screen and POP(!), man, the image really pops - bright, defined, crystal clear, wow. This was just the Samsung startup screen too!

In goes my Fountain BD. I had just watched some scenes from it the other night on my G-11 so I had a fairly fresh mental image of it. Again, WOW! The color, the definition, the contrast, ahhhhh, the beauty of it

.
Out of the box, there were a number of settings that weren't '0'. Color was at -5, and the R, G, B panels had all been shifted one way or the other. I would suspect this was part of the factory config/calibration, but I have no way of knowing. Out of the box though - it was phenomenal.
I've seen reports of people preferring different gamma modes (C in many cases), but I found with the few sources I looked at to prefer the default gamma. I tried the different default image profiles, but settled on Cinema for the Fountain. I'll try to give 'Natural' some more time, but I'll probably wait for a good Blu-Ray HD calibration disc before I get too anal about it.

The high-lamp mode is completely unnecessary for me. It cranks up the lamp (and fan noise) a bit, but with my light-controlled room it's not needed. Perhaps as the bulb ages, but right now, there's no way it's needed.

Fan noise... It's very quiet. Is it a 'whisper?' No. Is it *MUCH* *MUCH* quieter than what I had before? Oh he** yes. I suspect it will be even less of an issue once its mounted on the ceiling and not just behind my head.

Remote? Thank you JVC! Discrete buttons for almost everything and a backlight! Each source, a specific button. Off, On, their own buttons! The only thing they could have made discrete that would've been slightly handy would be the 'aspect' button to toggle between 4:3,16:9,zoom for 480i/p sources. I got an early pass at automating it programmed into my Pronto in 10 minutes or so as I'll probably use the remote itself for the occasional 'adjustment', but my pronto for day-to-day use (just need source control, off/on, aspect control).

I've since tried it with my Scientific Atlanta 8300HD cable HD tuner with 1080i and 720p sources, as well as standard def sources the 8300hd outputs as 480p [it automatically detected the hdmi and handled everything perfectly]. Very nice! 480i material from cable is, as expected, horrendous (particularly when coming from HD material), but still, watchable. HD content looked fantastic, as does all HD material on this projector.

My concerns of this projector on my Greyhawk screen were baseless. It looks damn fine. The built-in test patterns (just hit test on the remote! [nice!]) looked great. The greyscale ramp darn near brought tears to my eyes!

I'm still glowing a bit from the excitement of a new projector after all these years, but after all the odd comments on AVS, I guess I was expecting to just be 'happy' with it. To heck with them, this thing is phenomenal!

I haven't seen the Pearl (but have seen the Ruby) or the other 1080p projector(s) around the RS1's price range, but IMO, for the money this is one heck of a projector and darn tough to beat. From what I recall of the Ruby (from CEDIA two years ago), this beats it.

 

[Robert Walker]

Well, I see nobody ever posted the price, (unless I'm blind). Maybe its because HTF changed their minds ? Anyway, the prebuy price was $4500.00. The current price, or as of last week anyway, is $4899.00. But I "think" they are currently playing around with the price a little, maybe because of the still short supply. But I got that price by phone and email.

I haven't called MVS, even though I did look at their website awhile back. But no way I could trade in my PJ for what was stated earlier, $1500 off retail ? I don't think I'd want to give my PJ away ! I mean AVS isn't the only place that's close to the price I was quoted.

I know what the distributor cost is, and direct dealers get it for even less, so to just put a shipping label on, $4900 is a good markup, in todays consumer electronics. But just as soon as JVC finally catches up, and stock starts sitting around, and that will happen, then many will have it around that price, or less.

Far as JVC trying to control the price, that isn't going to happen, not to mention illegal. There is a case now that reach the supreme court over MAP and forcing dealers to not to sell under a certain price. The company trying to do that lost all the way there, being awarded 3.6 million dollars.

But the fact the Supreme court agreed to hear it, has some thinking it could be a interesting decision this summer, for retail.

That's two things I'm always been amused with, setting a price for dealers and no warranty if not authorized. I can just see how long it would take any court, small claims or whatever, to rule on no warranty. A customer has a receipt, from someone that has a state retail license, but the customer was suppose to call the company first, to find out if authorized. Yeah, right, like any state would allow that.

But I guess it sounds good for some dealers, and I do understand the attempt. But no large company ever questions a warranty that I've heard of, if a receipt is available, and Sony won't even ask for that most times, if the product cannot be out of warranty yet.

 

[Patrick Bennett]

MVS's 'normal' price was about $5200 I think. AVS's price was about the same when I last talked to them. So effectively, I'll be getting about $500 for my G-11. Looking at past E-Bay sales of the projector, I'd be pretty hard-pressed to sell it for that much, if at all - not to mention the general hassle of it.
It's still a great projector, but considering you can get a perfectly acceptable lcd/dlp projector for a grand or so, not many people are going to want to buy a projctor whose bulbs only last 1,000 hours and cost almost 800 dollars. So, you might think I'm 'giving away' my projector since I could potentially get a better deal elsewhere, but honestly, if it finds a new home now, I'd be happy. I'm not sure what would happen to it were I not trading it in.

So, when it's all said and done, I think a 24% total discount is very acceptable for a projector that's so in demand.

 

[Robert Walker]

Well, I didn't mean that you gave your projector away, I was just talking in general terms, and about myself. I'm not sure what's up with the price at AVS, could be depends on which salelsman, maybe they are seeing how the person reacts. I did hear something about them lowering it a bit because of the long wait, but I thought that was only for people that had already purchased, after the pre-buy. But last week it was $4899, from two different guys that are salesman's for them.

If I tried to buy now and its $5200, then we would have a nice talk, whether it did any good or not.

So, all I was saying is at the MVS price of $4800 trade in, verses $4900, that wouldn't be a good deal for me. My projector has a new lamp, warrarnty until January, and while they are only a few on Ebay, it should bring close to or around $1000.

Plus, I have a feeling, but don't know for sure, that MVS is a direct dealer. There is a nice price break if enough are bought that way. I understand all the expense, and of course anyone can charge whatever they like, but its different just putting a shipping label on, verses installing.

But sure, until JVC finally brings enough in that will fill orders, its harder to get anyone to lower the price, since internet forums created a nice demand.

I been kind of waiting until they are in actual stock, but also not sure what I wanted too do, with Cedia not that far away. But I'm not hearing anything so far that excites me.

 

[Patrick Bennett]

My bulb was at the end of its life anyway and I had to reset its counter trying to limp along until the RS1 arrived. If I had purchased a brand new bulb even semi-recently that would have changed my mind a bit. Assuming it doesn't cost me a fortune to ship it (sure as heck not going to insure it - UPS 'insurance' is a complete fraud anyway) I still feel pretty good about the overall deal.

 

[johnathan]

Patric
One of the agreements over at AVS was this was a special order and price was not to be disclosed publicly. I will respect that agreement there here or any where else on the internet !

I can pm you with the price if you like . Johnathan

Don't mean to sound harsh but that was their request. Cheers