HTF REVIEW: Miyazaki's "Spirited Away" (HIGHLY RECOMMENDED) (with screenshots) (1 Viewer)

[PaulP]

Does anyone know why all of a sudden Amazon is showing the Miyazaki 3-pack as being released next Tuesday now? Dammit, I was wondering why it hasn't shipped yet.

 

[Brent Hutto]

Yeah, I went ahead and cancelled my order this morning. I've already rented Spirited Away (although I'll still buy a copy to watch again) so I'm going to look around in Best Buy, etc. this weekend for Kiki and/or Laputa. My guess is that one of those two titles is delayed and they're re-dating the "3-pack" to that effect.

 

[Steve Y]

So hm, back to topic here...

I notice in the piece of fluff ("the art of spirited away") on disc 1 they mentioned the "North American premiere" (of the English dub, though that's not mentioned).. I was at the real premiere in SF before the dub was completed, and John L's enthusiasm was great there in person (he introduced the film), but it's out of place as a "permenent header" for the film. At least I can skip it. But argh.

I noticed one grammatical error and one typo in the subtitles, but hey.. that's nit-picking. I'm glad they have the nice 5.1 Japanese audio.

As usual, the Japanese version was completely underplayed (or most often ignored) in all promotional material, though it is superior. They are definitely playing to a certain audience here with the Pixar connection... I really respect John L. but here it's like, "your Toy Story buddy will let you know everything's going to be OK, you'll like this movie, really..."

I think what really bothered me about the dub, or *most of all* anyway, were the little added bits of explanatory dialogue... whereas in the J. version you just get silence and the visual tells the story... not, "hey, look, -blank blank blank-! just in case you didn't notice!" (the first glimpse of haku's secret is one example)

It's a nice transfer. Not a sharp transfer, but that probably just means no edge enhancement.

I wish they had used seamless branching or alternate angles so we could see the original japanese leading/ending titles. (as with mononoke) ... oh well. (surprising, since they did it for Kiki)

~steve

 

[Jeff Kleist]

I wish they had used seamless branching or alternate angles so we could see the original japanese leading/ending titles. (as with mononoke) ... oh well. (surprising, since they did it for Kiki)

They do, it's just badly authored

You have to set it for Japanese, enter the movie, menu out, reset for Japanese/subs and re-enter and you'll get the right angle (1)

 

[PaulP]

Yeah, I went ahead and cancelled my order this morning.

My order is $51, so I'll wait it out.

 

[Alex_Santos]

Just wanted to jump into the fracas with my 2 cents:

I don't think anyone can question this films stunning visuals and amazing effects but there are some serious problems. I don't know how this film could have won an oscar with such a convoluted plot. Now Ive spent some serious time in China and Japan, and believe that I have a good handle on the religious aspects so I wont go there. I will however wonder how they could produce a plot with so little background information.

I kept wondering things like why the spirits used that particular area as a bath house. Why did they need a freaking bathhouse? When was the last time you heard about spirits needing a good bath? Why were some of the people animals? Why the witch was in charge (other than her powers)? Why certain characters came into play, namely that no-face thingy and those damn bouncing heads? Why were there 3 of the bouncing heads? Why were there bouncing heads? Why was the baby only able to walk and talk during the last part of the film? And how the guy was a river spirit? They didnt explain that one at all. Just bam, all of a sudden she figures out he is some sort of a river spirit and thats it. Why weren't there more spirits like that? No forest spirits? No mountain spirits? No, just the spirit of the river that she happened to fall into? I guess the other spirits were at the bathhouse in tokyo? Its more upscale there.

There were no explanations for anything except why the parents turned into pigs, and even then, there was no explanation for why there were so many pigs there. Had people been stopping by for years and eating the food?. Anyways, these were just a few of the numerous plot questions that I had.

These don't even hold a candle to the worst problem which was the Chichiro voice over. I don't think that they could have hired a girl with a more annoying voice than they did. I had to fast forward through the parts where she was screaming so my ears wouldn't explode.

I was almost going to buy this movie because of the hype. Now Im really thankful that I rented. Possibly the worst animated movie Ive ever seen.

Sorry for the long review but this really frustrated the hell out of me.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

Alex-

Look at it this way:

If you were a little Japanese girl in Chihiro's situation, would you really think that all of that background information was relevant? The film is, after all, aimed at little kids (I think it was made specifically for Miyazaki's neighbor's daughter).

The idea of the film is that you see how this girl's good nature and attitude help out all these people and help her get through this strange situation.

If you desire background info, such as why the gods go to that specific bathhouse, then you'd have to establish things far outside the realm of what audiences care about.

These don't even hold a candle to the worst problem which was the Chichiro voice over

Well you should probably have watched the film in the original language. A few of your questions are cleared up in the different translation of the subs and the film sounds better.

 

[Jeff Kleist]

Morgan pretty much got it, some additions:

People go to bathhouses to relax, for a VACATION. That's why there's all the food, the party atmosphere. It's a resort for spirits.

Also, Pork is a major segment in Asian cooking, and since she's running a resort, she would have a ton of pigs around for the kitchen

 

[Brent Hutto]

At first I thought there would be a smiley on this Alex_Santos post but I guess not.

Just wanted to jump into the fracas with my 2 cents:

I don't think anyone can question this films stunning visuals and amazing effects but there are some serious problems. I don't know how this film could have won an oscar with such a convoluted plot. Now Ive spent some serious time in China and Japan, and believe that I have a good handle on the religious aspects so I wont go there. I will however wonder how they could produce a plot with so little background information.

I think the main thing you missed is that this was not intended as a narrative depicting the actual, literal experiences of a little Japanese girl. Do you recall how everything seemed arbitrary and unfair when you were 13 or 14 years old? Most people interpret adolescence in some way or another as confusing, unsettling and with powers outside their control jerking them around and expecting them to be something other than their own view of themselves. That's what Spirited Away was supposed to be like.

Chihiro found herself losing her identity and being forced to cope with enormous problems not of her own making. Because of her innate qualities of industry, faithfulness, determination and ability to love she came through it beautifully and also helped improve the lives of people she hardly knew. That wouldn't be a bad story for a little American girl and for a 12-year-old Japanese girl it's probably even more salient.

If you're not a pre-teen and can't remember what it was like, the imagary and imagination on display are their own treats to be savored. Apparently, that doesn't "do it" for you in the abscence of a plot that you can parse in great detail. Just not your sort of movie, I guess, not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

[Dave F]

While I enjoy the film, Alex has a good point. It's one thing some leave some (or a lot) of the details to the imagination. It's quite another to leave almost all of the details to the imagination. It really feels like the second or third film in a series, and without any information, it's tough to feel any sort of commitment to the story. If I knew a 13 or 14 yr old kid who pictured the world as random as this, I'd be scheduling major therapy sessions for the kid.

Given a choice between Mononoke and Spirited Away, I'd choose Mononoke every time, without hesitation.

I'd like to know the technical details of how the red tint was "corrected". To me it looks awful, like trying to correct a display's red push settings by reducing all tint and color settings. The red tint is still there - it's just bland and washed out like the rest of the color.

-Dave

 

[Brent Hutto]

I'm not sure what you mean by "details". The thing that makes Spirited Away so overwhelming is in fact the amazing amount of detail that is shown. With due respect, I thought Alex_Santos was complaining that many details were shown without being explained rather than there being insufficient detail provided.

Your comment about "information" being provided indicates that you prefer movies that present things and then present explainations for those things. Now I certainly agree that making a movie too ambiguous can be a very off-putting thing but for me Spirited Away was nowhere near that level. I can't possibly imagine a preceding or following movie that adds anything to Chihiro's story. I thought the story was very self-contained.

What is an example of a movie comparable to Spirited Away that does a better job of presenting the sort of details you'd prefer to see?

 

[Jeff Kleist]

There was an entirely new telecine done for the US disc, which resulted in a noticeably inferior detail level to the Asian release, which was presumably direct digital

 

[TonyD]

i have to agree with, but to a much less severe extent then alex.(if that makes sense)

it was not over-whelming, to borrow brent's word.
it was fun to watch andd looked incredible.

but was there really a plot at all?
other then the girl had to hold her own in this odd arena until she could get her parents back?
there was no mystery.
i expected the no face to be some commection to the girl in any way.
and when the went on the train, it seemed as if the picture lingered on the little girl on one of the passing train platforms. my wife even said she thought that little girl would have some role later in the movie.

it seemed like a series for short stories all involving the little girl just put together to make a longer show.

i loved princess mononoke tons. this one not so much.

what was missing for me was that special "magic" feeling.

iron giant did that for me as did mononoke.

not nearly the worst animated movie i ever saw.

alex have you ever seen COOL WORLD?

 

[Dave F]

"Details" was a poor choice of words on my part, and was vague & misleading. I should have said "unexplained details". You are absolutely correct about the film being packed full of details. However, it feels as if there is nothing that the details are based upon. There is no reason for them to exist. They feel random. And if they feel random, it's hard to "buy in" to the film. In the end, it feels empty. Like an incredibly intricate wedding cake with nothing underneath the icing.

Your comment about "information" being provided indicates that you prefer movies that present things and then present explainations for those things.

That is a huge presumption to make, and in the tone you are using, an unflattering one. I have not made any presumptions about you, and I would ask that you return the favor.

-Dave

 

[Morgan Jolley]

I see what you're saying. More or less, the movie is just expecting you to have a temporary suspension of disbelief and watch the film as though you're a child (JUST WATCH IT; don't think, don't predict, don't do anything except absorb what is on the screen and leave it at that).

The movie is made for kids, so of course it's not going to go into deep details. Did Mononoke ever explain HOW the forest god came into power? Who were Mononoke's parents, specifically? Where did those gods come from? The truth is, it doesn't matter, just accept it.

 

[Brent Hutto]

That is a huge presumption to make, and in the tone you are using, an unflattering one. I have not made any presumptions about you, and I would ask that you return the favor.

I'm sorry if I offended you. I intended nothing belittling about my comments. I was trying to understand how yours and other comments reflect on my own experience of the movie and not to imply any superiority on my part.

What I was trying to get at is where you and I each stand on a continuum between literal or explicit representation and an abstract "fill in your own meaning" approach. For instance, "Koyaanisqatsi" is pretty far along the abstract end of that scale. Some people find that the music and the images meld together in a way that invokes certain insights or feelings. For me, it's just images (some of which are pretty cool) and disconnected music. I need more narrative than that in order to sit through a couple hours of movie no matter how interesting the individual components.

Both of my parents, OTOH, will supply their literal interpretations of any part of the movie that is not explicit. That's their way of enjoying a movie. I don't think I'm superior to them in any way nor do I think someone who "gets" Koyaanisqatsi has some kind of greater power of discernment than I do.

I recently watched "Blue" and it took a fair bit of the movie for me to settle in to the cues being provided for what was going on during all those no-dialog shots when you have to read Binoche's face to know what she's experiencing. It has to be a very worthwhile movie to make it worth that kind of effort.

For me, Spirited Away was much more accessible than Blue and I could sort of go along with the flow of the trippy images and follow the emotional narrative with no particular investment of effort. It's not really more abstract than Princess Mononoke but it's certainly more indirect. Maybe that's it. Indirect doesn't bother me but abstract gives me trouble.

 

[Thomas Newton]

It really feels like the second or third film in a series

Not to me. I think the things you're complaining about are just a matter of cultural background. To someone who grew up in Japan, they would no more call for multiple-film explanation than the things you see in stories or films such as Snow White, Cinderella, and Hansel and Gretel.

Why DID the father in Hansel and Gretel abandon the children, instead of the cruel stepmother? Why did the witch in the woods build her house out of materials that insects, rodents, and children would try to eat? Why did she try to bake children alive for dinner? Are we to infer from the fact that the witch had not starved to death that there had been a steady stream of children abandoned in the woods, most or all of whom had become dinner? If so, why did nobody ever do anything about that? And on it goes. But for the purposes of the story, you don't NEED to know all that.

Likewise, you don't need a detailed explanation of why all of the characters in Spirited Away look and act the way they do. They're spirit characters who inhabit a strange world that is not completely unlike the human world. You're seeing a glimpse of their world from the viewpoint of a child who gets caught up in it. The abundance of spirit types whose backgrounds aren't fully explained (like the abundance of alien patrons in the Star Wars bar scene) is part of the basis for a sense of immersion, a sense of wonder.

 

[Alex_Santos]

Easy boys, didn't mean to start a riot here. I am happy though that I could spark some discussion about the movies inadaquicies (at least to me). I will say that some of you are taking my comments a little too seriously. It is, after all, just one man's comments. And don't complain that Im attacking anyone or anything of the sort. I can take constructive criticism and I can dish it as well.

to Morgan Jolley: There was no reason to take shots at my intellegence. Saying things like "this is one logical thing that can be assumed" only degrades the discussion of the movies merits and makes the response a personal slight. Thats not really necessary. I was only trying to take a subjective look at the material presented in the movie. It left me with many questions and I was hoping to possibly find some answers, not smart ass remarks. In response, I will critique your post like you critiqued mine.

Lets start with the if I was little girl, would I need background information. Let me tell you something. If I was a little girl in Chihiro's situation, the first question that I would ask would be what the hell is going on here. That is if I suddenly ended up in a spirit theme park. And if that ever happened, I think some background information would be very helpfull.

I asked why there was a river spirit, not because I don't know that in eastern philosophy there are spirits and gods for everything, but because he just had nothing to do with the overall plot and story line. It just got sprung at the end that he was the spirit of the river she fell in and that was it. No explanation, no reasoning of why a river spirit would want to come to the bath house.

As for the other spirits, was it really necessary to tell me that the boy was integral to the story line. Come on. Since this was a spirit bath house, how come the forest spirit isn't seen. Or the spirit of the mountains? Even if they weren't integral parts, it could have helped explain why the spirit of the river was there.

About why they needed a bath house, I dont understand what you mean when you say because of the same reasons humans need one. What are the spirits doing that they are getting so dirty? Are they farming in the spirit world? Ive never heard of dirty spirits and I don't know of any teaching that describe any sort of work or exercise or any other activities that these spirits could be doing to get dirty. I think some explanation would have been helpful.

Why were some of the people animals? I was asking why the servants were still humans and the other workers were frogs, walruses, and other animals.

Why was the witch in charge? She built the bathhouse? I dont understand this one at all. In the story they say the the themepark was built but abandoned.

On how Chihiro figured out the he was a river spirit. The movie says that she remembered the river saving her, not that she remembers seeing a dragon. She saw him as a dragon after she was taken to see her parents.

On why there were so many pigs. If there were so many parents, where were their kids? Why wasn't there discussion on prior escape attempts? Why was this girl so special? Just because she was kind? Thats a little weak in my opinion.

As far as the Japanese language version goes, I watched that as well and had an even harder time understanding what was going on.

To Brent: I understand that it wasn't a literall description of events. This is just silly. How many young people stumble into spirit themeparks? I can certaintly remember when I was 13 bumping into my great grandmother's spirit in the schvitz. AS far as the detail goes, I was complaining that there weren't any details at all. It didn't have to do with them being left to the imagination, there was just a complete lack of any substance. Details were neither explained or imaginable in most instances. I have a pretty active imagination and Ive never once thought about what I would do if I was stuck in a spirit themepark.

For everyone else, its not that the movie wasn't for my tastes. And it certaintly doesn't have to do with my not understanding how things were confusing and arbitrary when I was 13. This has nothing to do with it at all and you guys are getting a little too philosohpical in regards to my review.

The movie was beautiful but in animation there is more than just storyboards and pretty pictures. There is the plot and that is the most important part of the movie. There's one thing that some of you are forgetting. Anime without a solid plot is just drawings. Simple as that. If you can't sell the story then your just showing off your work. You have to sell the sizzle with the steak.

 

[Richard Kim]

Regarding the issue of getting the Japanese opening and closing credits, I think it has something to do with John Lassiter's intro. When I selected Japanese and subtitles and started the movie, JL's intro played, and the opening credits were in English. So I exited the movie to the main menu, went to the scene selection an chose chapter 1. No JL intro, and voila, Japanese credits!

 

[Morgan Jolley]

AS far as the detail goes, I was complaining that there weren't any details at all. It didn't have to do with them being left to the imagination, there was just a complete lack of any substance. Details were neither explained or imaginable in most instances

And pretty much all of those instances involved details that were not at all important to the film. What relevance does the history of the bath house and who made it have? Details like that are not given because of their irrelevance. The story revolves around how this little girl is able to survive in this environment, not who made it.