How to buy new speakers? (1 Viewer)

[gene c]

Maybe Dave's wife freaked when she saw the subwoofer crate and decked him with the frying pan? )

 

[DaveF]

Sorry...I've got the speakers. I've got a set-up video, that if I can figure out how to smash it down into a time-lapse form, I'll post. My wife is out of town with the camera, so no photos yet. And anyway, things aren't setup fully yet. I need to wall-mount the TV to get the center channel in the right place. And I'm dithering on what to do about the surrounds.

This is the MTS5.1 system: MTS towers for front L & R. MCS for center channel . Two MBS bookshelfs for surrounds. And the PC12-Plus for the sub. All in rosenut with the black accents.

This is a major upgrade. There is no comparison to my previous KLH bargain kit. The subwoofer far exceeds anything I need (I probably bought too much . Talking with Ed, from SVS, I noted I'll never take it to reference level, leaving significant headroom in the sub, so he promptly bunged a port to tune it to 16 Hz Even at modest volumes, the bass can be felt in some scenes.

The stereo imaging is the best I've ever had. Interestingly, it's not as good as I heard during my demo at Ed's. I attribute that to my lack of acoustic treatments and the wide separation of the front speakers. But it's still very good compared to what I've heard before.

Ambient surround effects are much more solid than ever before. The MBS were are cutoff at 80 Hz in the receiver, and I think they are spec'd to do an honest 80 Hz. I watched "Forgetting Sarah Marshall" last night, and even a sonically modest rom-com benefits: the crashing of the surf on a beach scene is lifelike, substantative.

The mains are cutoff at 70Hz -- at the recommendation of Ed / Chris. As I desired, there's no gap between mains and sub. Listening to George Winston play the "Linus and Lucy" theme on piano is a new experience; the lower piano registers are solid and rich.

I'll speak for Chris here: he's a more critical listener than me, owns Paradigm Monitors, and has demo'd Paradigm Studio and Signature speakers. Based on memory, listening to his music in my room, he felt that the MTS system (stereo) are wholly superior to the Monitors, probably a match to the Studio, and may even compete with the SIgnature line. In my experience, the stereo imaging crushes anything I've heard at retail stores. Audio quality is a tough nut to keep in mind, but I found them better than the Monitor line. (I never demo'd anything higher, like the SE or Studio line.)

I had anxieties about driving these 4-ohm speakers with my Onkyo 707, but so far so good. For most of my watching, it's not an issue. Ed observed that it was clipping during the Lobby scene in the Matrix, running about -12db below reference (75dB reference). (He noted that the sharp metallic ringing in gunfire is not the right sound, but indicative of amp clipping.)

In my comments on SVS speakers, my recurring critique is on the aesthetics. While I still think they prioritize sound and value over aesthetics, in person, these rosenut speakers look better than I expected. The build quality is exceptional. I think my expectations were a bit low as Ed's speakers were self-assembled from misc stock and while good quality, perhaps aren't quite as tight in the seams as new, for-customer, construction.

Going back to the beginning: OOBE (out of the box experience) is superb. It was only dampened by my rush to open and setup with two guests waiting on me The boxes -- double-boxed in case of MTS -- are oversized. The speakers are packed to survive the worst UPS could throw at them. Each speaker is in a soft white linen / cotten-esque bag, to protect the finish. Heave the speakers out of the box, open the drawstring and slip the bag off, and the speaker is ready. Also in the box is a freq-response chart for the speaker and, if appropriate, some mounting feet hardware.

The sub -- the PC12-Plus, a mid-size, mid-weight sub by SVS speakers, is something to see in person. But, key to me, it's shorter than the MTS fronts and shorter than my media shelf so it is not intrusive in the room.

There are some obvious anxieties about buying from an internet-direct company. I had the good fortune to get a demo. But setting aside acoustic matters; SVS is a top-notch company. They will provide extremely detailed information to your questions. They will work with you to find the right system for your room and budget. They will also, good naturedly, point out weaknesses in your total system and point out useful upgrade options -- using products from other companies, no profit to SVS. The construction -- these speakers look like they'll be unchanged in a decade. The shipping quality is superb. The speakers are ready for normal connections, bi-wiring, and bi-amping. They'll take bare wire, spades, and bananas. And you get a free SVS T-shirt with the system

I'll be back with more, later this week for sure

 

[Mike Frezon]

Cool, Dave.

You must be having an awful lot of fun.

 

[SIZE= smaller]Okay, so my two cents...first, Dave, you are awesome, thanks for sharing the setup experience : ) Second, these speakers are really good. After listening to the MTS-01s at my place, driven by an Integra DTR-8.8, I am quite impressed. Compared to the Paradigm Studio 60s v5, the MTS-01s have been clarity and a noticeable step up in the upper mids and high frequencies. Mids, mid-bass, and bass are comparable to the Studio 60s, with the MTS-01s being a bit less fatiguing. The Studios present a slightly forward soundstage (at least in the two rooms I’ve heard them), while the MTS-01s stretch the soundstage from just in front of the speakers backward, which I prefer. Imaging is rock solid, though the Studios are no slouch in that respect, and with the v5s are much closer than the v4s. Both brands have excellent transient response. Visually, the Studio 60s are one of the best looking speakers on the market; the SVS philosophy leads to a speaker with high build quality but not the piece-of-exquisite-furniture look of the Paradigms. For me though, the exceptional clarity, effortless dynamic range, and much fairer price of the MTS-01s win the day. [/SIZE] [SIZE= smaller]I’m hoping for a full bore in-home, extended A/B comparison of the two. [/SIZE] [SIZE= smaller]A few notes for Dave specifically: My suggestions for your setup are to add some wall treatments to quell higher-frequencies (Audyssey will help a bit, but it is best to improve the room itself first) and seriously consider an outboard or next-level-up amp, especially if you find yourself listening to more music. The MTS-01s really opened up with the better amp.[/SIZE] I will note that the Integra is having zero issues driving the MTS-01s. In fact, the amp is running cooler than with the Paradigm Monitor 7s, which were higher sensitivity by 1.5 dB. I can only attribute this to the ridiculously narrow electrical phase angle (+/- 25 degrees from 2k up) and the Integra’s inherent headroom that allows it to play cleanly on its 4 ohm setting, which halves peak continuous power (according to Integra).

 

[DaveF]

Chris -- your font is teeny tiny. Your eyes must be as good as your ears

 

Let's try that...previous post edited. I was typing the post in Word and copy-pasted, which I assume caused the ant-sized font

Did you make a decision on the surrounds - wall or stand mount?

I'm currently trying to figure out how to raise the top level of my A/V stand to make an extra half-inch of room for the MCS-01 - it just barely doesn't fit!

 

[DaveF]

My wife is back in town: she said the sound is obviously better. Bass is stronger, everything is clearer.

No decision about the surrounds yet. I'll talk to my wife yet. I got the speaker wire & bananas; I'll work on that this weekend.

Bummer about the media stand. That MCS is a big boy. I'm not looking forward to wall-mounting my TV, but it must be done. (I'm sure my wife wants it off the Xbox box it's current sitting on, in front of the hutch.)

 

Glad the WAF is acceptable.

And, yes, that MCS-01 is a bit on the tall side. Like you mentioned at your house, most manufacturers seem to go with more width (and drivers) for the center channel. I believe our conclusion was that SVS wanted to keep the dimensions the same on all the M-series speakers (center channel height = tower/bookshelf width), most likely to reduce cost and possibly help with design/performance as well.

One note I did not mention before: I do prefer the MCS-01s off-axis a bit. Currently, they are toed-in approximately 10-15 degrees off-axis to the listening position with tweeters inside.

Oh, and they're still very good

 

[DaveF]

Four minute time-lapse of the speaker setup (720p available) Nothing amazing, but it gives a sense of the boxing, size, heft, and style. Please don't report me to the RIAA for violating copyright on the background music

 

[Mike Frezon]

Originally Posted by DaveF

Honestly Dave, too cool. Nice job with the video. I bet turning that all on for the first time was way too cool.

I was actually a bit surprised the subwoofer wasn't bigger. My impression of those SVS subwoofers is that physically take over the room (keeping in mind I've never seen one in person. Just in still pix here). That didn't seem to be the case in your situation.

 

[DaveF]

I got a cylinder subwoofer because the box subs are so massive. The smallest box wouldn't fit my room anywhere. For comparison, look at the smallest box SVS has, what I considered initially. It's 18"x21"x25"! (They now sell smaller subs. But they're sealed subs and pricier than the equivalent ported sub.)

The cylinders are "only" 16" diameter and vary in height. The PC12 is 40" tall, which is shorter than the media bookshelf and tower speaker, so it adequately disappears in the corner. Even my wife noted that it's not as obtrusive as she feared.

Now I'm trying to figure out the TV wall mount and what to do about the surround mounting.

 

[gene c]

I was actually a bit surprised the subwoofer wasn't bigger.

Mike, go back and look at the part of the video where someone removes Dave's old sub (if you can call it that ). That should make the SVS seem as large as it actually is.

Dave, that video reminds me of when I un-packed my Swans. Each speaker was double-boxed, wrapped in white cloth bags and lots of heavy, thick Styrofoam. I had an enormous amout of stuff to get rid of. I thought the packaging was more costly then the speakers since the Swans were maybe 1/2 the price of you're SVS's.

Nice to see you had help. Those boxes looked like back-breakers!

 

[Mike Frezon]

Originally Posted by gene c /forum/thread/297610/how-to-buy-new-speakers/120#post_3682316

 

[Ed Moxley]

Very nice video. I love that the kitty was trying to help!
I hope the kitty doesn't think the sub is a new scratching post.............

 

[DaveF]

Mike, your current sub is as large or larger than my old sub. It was a KLH 100W sub with perhaps a 10" woofer. The box was about 12-14" all around.

Mango is a very helpful cat. He and Dash (who hides from company), are especially good plumbers

Gene -- you're right, everything was double-boxed. I'm keeping all the packaging (in the basement). If we ever move, the speakers will be boxed properly. The MBS (bookshelf) and MCS (center) are manageable alone. The MTS (towers) and PC12 (sub) definitely benefited from the help! The whole kit barely fit in Chris's car. It was quite the packing to get it all out here!

No issues with the cats and the subwoofer. If I see trouble, I'll put on test tones

 

Originally Posted by DaveF /forum/thread/297610/how-to-buy-new-speakers/120#post_3682336

/forum/thread/297610/how-to-buy-new-speakers/120#post_3682336

 

[DaveF]

I wall-mounted the TV today, so I can show the final setup in the front. I used a mounting kit from monoprice (killer price, nice hardware, missing about $1 in bolts and washers). I measured all the heights, added them to get the height of the mount so the TV would clear the speaker, and then added an inch. It's a good thing I added that margin, because due to mount sag and (presumably) other measurement errors, the TV clears the speaker by a scant 1/8" It also revealed something unexpected: with the TV level (to gravity) we find the hutch on the carpet is not level. If you squint at the bottom photo, you can see that the gap between speaker and TV goes from about 1/4" to 1/8".

To finish: I'm returning the wall mounts for the rear speakers and buying the stands (it's an aesthetic issue with the room). I'll drill some holes in the floor, redo the speaker wire run to the rears, do the banana plugs, and try to do some heat-shrink tubing on the banana plugs to make them more robust. If the mounts come in time, I'll do that next week. Then I'll post some pics of the rears on the SVS mounts.

From TV Wall Mount

 

[gene c]

Glad to see things are moving right along. I thought the tv was sitting on the center channel until I read your dialog.

Even though I'm sure you're glad this journey is coming to an end (finally!) it was very informative, and enjoyable, for the rest of us.

 

[Adam Gregorich]

Thats a nice wall mount. I like the included level. Most AV furniture has adjustable feet. Try turning the feet on the stand to remove the 1/8 inch gap (if it bothers you).

Nice system.

 

[DaveF]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Gregorich /forum/thread/297610/how-to-buy-new-speakers/120#post_3684660

In hindsight, to take advantage of it, you need to pre-drill only one hole, and then drill the rest of the holes after adjusting the wall plate per the bubble level. It doesn't have much clearance around the lag screws to adjust its level.

My one recommendation to Monoprice would be to make that wall plate about 6" longer to give better adjustability for stud placement.

But it's a nice mount. I'm very happy with it, having just mounted it.