High Definition DVD: What is Holding You Back? (3 Viewers)

[Andy_MT]

i made a pact with myself that i wouldn't buy into HD discs until the format war had been resolved ...

... then i bought an HD-DVD player. damn internet forums !!!!!

it's not just an issue of getting people on the HD train (HD-DVD or bluray), but getting them to stay on for the ride.

i want ...

* regular release of back catalog titles (warner, you've gone very quiet lately)
* ridiculously good video (no old HD transfers - at least, not bad ones)
* day and date releases to happen in the not too distant future
* HD-DVD or combo player win to happen quick sharp.
* the end of (expensive) combo titles ... really, who are these for in the real world ????

and if i don't get it (or most of it) ...

i'll cut of the sugar. no more software purchases.

HD is going to be a long hard slog for the studios. i'm thinking mount everest proportions. you need a BIG (expensive) screen to really feel the benefit and an even bigger wallet to replace your DVDs (which you only bought not that long ago).

heck, i don't even see myself replacing a fraction of my 2000 ish DVD collection. why ? because i have these films already and the majority of the time, they look ok. not necessarily great, but unless i love the film in question, i just can't justify buying it again. the DVD will do. and that's on a 120 inch screen.

and i suspect that lots will feel this way. particularly the sea of masses with their smaller displays and not quite as mentally unbalanced enthusiam for movies.

 

[Mark Anthony]

Simple:

1 A good quality combo player that is the equal in ability and quality of the Denon 3910

2 Removal of regional coding, as we all know it's a waste of time

3 Software titles that are worth buying and upgrading from DVD...Mediocre action films and rom-com's such as XXX, 50 first dates, Doom, U571, Hitch, Training Day are not going to make people spend $ on a HD player.

Where's the killer app's like 2001, Apocalypse Now, North by Northwest, Legend, Psycho etc? I mean is it so hard to know what classic titles people really wanna buy - esp, as HD master's are ready for as lot of these. Although to give WB credit they seem to have a good selection of catalogue classics as well as some throwaway watch-once titles.

4 Quality WB and Universal seem to have got the level of quality right on the first batch of titles, generally speaking, Sony on the other hand seem to be asking people not to buy with mediocre titles and unacceptable picture quality - do you really think people are going to buy expensive hardware and software if BD quality is mediocre? I suggest the situation is remedied fast as Internet reviews of initial product are not enticing me to buy.

We expect a generally artifact-free picture and hi-res audio, with all soundtrack options - ie original mono if applicable as well as remixes.

M

 

[Adam_WM]

Well, I'll try to keep this simple.

1) Price = I will not pay $400+ for a DVD player. It doesn't matter to me what the quality advantage is. $250 is the most I will pay. As for the software, I am perfectly happy paying $13 - $16 on release week for titles instead of $30 for a marginally better release.

2) Two formats = I will not buy a player that doesn't support both formats. It doesn't matter what the differences between the formats are, I refuse to be left out in the cold on some movies because the competing studios and hardware formats can't come to terms.

3) Movies = I own over 500 movies and like some previous posters say, why would I upgrade most of these movies? They weren't shot on HD media and even a pristine master won't get them looking much better than they already do on DVD.

4) MOST OF ALL: WHO KNOWS IF THESE FORMATS WILL STICK? Nobody knows if these HD media will be embraced by the masses or will live quietly in the background like Laserdisc. I want to be sure, as I was with DVD, that I am making the right decision when it comes to changing my entertainment medium. After all, look at home people have HD TV's and don't even use the HD! I want to make sure that this next generation of DVDs isn't the same type of thing.

Good luck guys. I really hope that this sticks.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Andy,

You bring up a great point.

By the mid 1980s I had 2,000 movies on VHS. No joke. I spent
thousands upon thousands of dollars buying VHS movies that cost
$80 per tape. Don't forget -- back then, there was hardly any
sell-through VHS tapes. The studios were pricing movies high
because they knew the rental tape stores had to buy inventory.

The point is, when DVD came along I got rid of all those VHS tapes
and rebought many of those titles on DVD. It was a no-brainer as
I was migrating from an ANALOG TAPE format to a digital medium.
After nearly 10 years with DVD, I now have just over 2,000 titles in
my collection.

Why do I need to buy all these titles again? Why would I want to?

Like all of you, I am a collector.....but let's face it....we watch
90% of our movies once and it goes back on the shelf and collects
dust. We buy to collect. I am rough-guessing that only 10% of
anyone's library is going to get repeated viewings.

So here we are with the studios releasing a shitload of mediocre
catalog titles. Well, I know their problem -- just like DVD, you don't
put your best stuff out right away. In fact, Paramount was infamous
for taking their time releasing the best of their library because if you
put the BEST stuff out there now, by the time the format matures,
what do you have left to release?

So where does that leave us? I don't want to rebuy mediocre
catalog titles that I'll watch once and put back on the shelf. It
seems to me the only reason the early adopters are buying these
titles is because they are the only ones available and how can you
watch HD-DVD or BLU-RAY without them?

I'm not slamming the early adopters. I am sure some of the titles
just released may indeed be favorites of these buyers. Furthermore,
you have no idea how jealous I am of their purchase and the fact
they are watching films in higher resolution than I can.

Something needs to jolt this market before the rest of us are going
to be pushed into not only spending for hardware, but to want to
repurchase titles that are already in our collection and look pretty
damn good in SD. This just ain't happenin' now! If the studios
were putting out stuff like The Godfather, The Wizard Of Oz and
Indiana Jones you might push a lot of people into this format today.
Imagine how successful Blu-Ray would be if the very first release was Star Wars?
You could almost kill HD-DVD with a single exclusive release like that.

In my opinion, the studios need to play it a little smarter than they are.

 

[ChristopherDAC]

One word : content. I really want High Definition, but for me there's no point in "buying in" until there's something — prefarably several somethings — which I would really want to watch. I'm not going to buy discs I'm not interested in, or even rent them, just because they're technically superior ; and I'm not going to buy a player, much less 2 players, right now in the expectation that something will come out later. The format war matters very little to me, since I'm as unlikely to buy 1 player I can't use as 2 [and no, DVD upscaling isn't a reason to buy, since you can get an upscaling Oppo or something for less than $200].

 

[TravisR]

That's my biggest reason too. Sure, there's the price, 1st gen player hiccups, two formats but the lack of titles that I would actually want to watch (unlike alot of people, I don't want to buy an HD disc just to have something to watch in high def) is the biggest reason why I'm not really that interested right now.

 

[Chris S]

For me it comes down to similar lines as Ron stated early on in this thread.

Software: Give me some movies to be really excited about. I'm talking Lord Of the Rings type excited. Hitch and Rumor Has It might be nice films but they're not worth spending $500+ to view in HD. Of course titles will come with time but right now I'm not tripping over myself about anything thats out there.

Hardware: This really has three parts.

1. Video Hardware: I'm a projector owner. I love my Infocus 4805 and would gladly upgrade to a reasonably priced projector capable of producing a nice 1080p image. Heck I might even settle for 1080i Unfortunately projectors capable of such resolutions are $3,000+. A little out of my price range. And there is no way I'm going back to a big box television. I'm too spoiled by the nice large image that my little 4805 can produce. This limitation is not a fault of the HDDVD or BD camp but one that I have imposed on myself.
2. Player Hardware: 1st generate hardware is what it is, its 1st generation. It's notorious for being buggy and unstable. Plus there still isn't support for the new audio formats in the current set of available players. We saw this same scenario with DVD and we're seeing it again with HD.
3. Audio Hardware: Pre/Pro or Receiver, again the new audio formats aren't supported for the most part. Not a tremendous problem but one that needs addressing none the less.

Price: My setup is going to require an investment in just about all of the issues listed above; New player, new projector, new Pre/Pro, and new media. All of which are required to really get everything out of these new formats.

Declaring a "winner": This one I've become more and more skeptical about as I've been reading the forums the last few months. I can easily see a strong argument that we're heading down the path of SACD and DVDA. No winner means double the player hardware investment (sans a unified player).

 

[Chris S]

It would be the thread that killed the forum!

 

[Glenn Overholt]

I am ready. I am so ready that I already have my HDMI cable (with a DVI adaptor for my TV) dangling just inches from an empty spot in my equipment rack. I also have the spare 1-meter cables ready to connect my receiver to the analog outs on a set, but I am waiting, for just two reasons.

1. The format war! Both sides are killing these new formats. Both sides know this too. Two different hi-def formats can never co-exist with each other. The available shelf space in stores won't allow it unless both sides cut production in half! IMO, Sony should release the prerecorded disks and Toshiba should stick with R/W disks for computers.

2. Releases. I am not going to replace my present collection of over 1200 disks with a hi-def ones. What I need are more releases that the studios have not released yet. I know that this list needs some updating, but the majority of the movies listed here need releasing! I would buy over a hundred titles that are on this list.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...d.php?t=121222

Also, you would do all of us a huge favor if you would re-release these titles in their correct OAR. Again, this list needs some updating, but many of us won't buy titles that were P&S'd. I have 3 dozen on my list.

http://www.widescreenadvocate.org/watchdog.php

Glenn

 

[Peter Overduin]

Why NOT?...YET?

1. format war.
2. appalling releases; an indicator of lack of studio committment to HD format
3. price
4. multiple player problems as reported here on HTF and elsewhere

FYI...my fammily income is excess of 100K...money is not the issue...price point is an indicator of value, and the above points reflect the lack of value in the HD format at this time.

 

[Ian_H]

There are a few things holding me back:

1. I need a new TV. I only have a 36" standard television. I don't think that I would really see much of a difference with my current monitor.

2. Where are the goods?? The HD-DVD releases out now do nothing for me. Give me something that I have to own and I will buy it. TV-On HD-DVD ? Where are you??

3. First Gen bugs. IF I had dropped money on a player that stuttered on the first outing I would seriously be mad. I had a first gen panny SD DVD player and I didn't have glitches until the later DVDs came out (RSDL etc..).


--Ian

 

[Eric Peterson]

Here are my primary reasons:

1) Format War: I absolutely refuse to buy into a format war no matter how much better the new format(s) is/are. Get it together or forget ever getting my money.

2) Compatibility: I'm not sure if the HDMI only issue has been resolved, but I purchased my first HDTV barely two years ago and it does not have an HDMI port. I'm not about to replace my TV already. The new players had better be 100% backward compatible also.

3) Content: My primary interest in purchasing software is for older films. Generally, these type of films are not released until a format has matured. Of the HD titles released or rumored so far, there are nearly ZERO that I have any interest in. (That said, I'm no old fogey - I'm 34) I also mandate that the current quantity of bonus materials must be maintained. One of the primary reasons that I bought into DVD so enthusiastically was due to the documentaries and commentary tracks. If for any reason this type of content is dropped, then count me out.

4) Price - This isn't a major issue as I don't mind paying for quality, but $1000+ players is above and beyond my pain threshold. I paid around $600 for my first DVD player back in 1998 and that's more like it.

 

[Lew Crippen]

Listed in order of importance

1.A clear direction as to the future use of the ICT flag.
2.General software availability in Mexico (or a service such as Netflix that made movies available via downloads)
3.Players that had the new audio available.
4.Classic, foreign and independent movies available in HD
5.The full set of features available for both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD.

It would also be nice to have one player that could playback both formats.

 

[PaulDA]

What is holding me back? For one thing, my TV is a Sony Wega 32" SDTV--no HD capability whatsoever. It does have what I call a "cheat" (I can slightly enhance the PQ for DVDs by using a function that mimics prog scan by pressing a few buttons on my TV remote--I set my DVD player to 16x9 playback and the TV generates a 16x9 "window" on the 4x3 screen). The PQ is noticeably better than the standard "non-cheat" display and I think it's fine in my small HT room.

So, to take the plunge, the following must be in place:

1) I want an HDTV with real 1080p capability AND real blacks. Every HD fixed-pixel display (LCD, DLP, plasma) I've seen is good to great with colour but not one beats my TV for blacks (and I have a lot of B&W movies). The most promising technology out there I've read about is SED--and that's at least two years away from being somewhat affordable.

2) When I make the move to an HDTV, I want a player that EXCELS at upconversion. I do NOT want to replace my current DVDs (the only ones I'd consider doing that for are my concert DVDs if the hi-def ones came out with truly lossless audio). I know there are some out there already, but just like the classic Panasonic RP82 (I think that's the one) excelled at prog scan and still outperforms many current players in that, I hope that by the time I get an HDTV, quality upconversion is still available.

2A) If not an upconverting player, then a player that outputs 480i via HDMI into an HDTV that has excellent upconversion capability.

3) A universal player for HD-DVD and Blu-Ray. Something that is akin to the Marantz DV9600's excellent audio universality. And the player must support the advanced audio codecs. (it would be great if that player was also DVD-A/SACD capable, but it's not essential as I currently use a dedicated player for that purpose and another of DVD movies).

4) The HDTV I get should deal as well as possible with SDTV signals because Canadian HD content is still limited (though by the time I get an HDTV this may have changed--so it's a conditional requirement).

I probably won't get everything I want (there are always compromises to be made--money, features, etc.) but by and large I think what I want will be available when I'm able to afford them. Also, there should be sufficient time to see if either format becomes moderately mainstream (I'm willing to live with the hi-res audio formats on the margins, but I won't by the video equivalent to watch 4 movies a year). All in all, I can be patient as I am much more an audiophile than a videophile. I love movies, don't get me wrong. I'm an historian whose field of research is historical feature films and I'm a big movie lover generally. But I love music even more so when it comes to making compromises, I compromise the PQ before the SQ each time. Probably not what the HD hardware and software manufacturers want to hear, though.

 

[Rob_HD]

I intended to buy both formats' players and play with them until hybrid players came along.

However, the Bluray stuff has not been good - the player is twice the price and it doesn't do the advanced audio. But more importantly, the releases so far are not up to the level of HD DVD in terms of PQ.

So it's not that I displike Bluray, just that it offers less than the HD DVD format right now, and I don't think it'll hold any greater attraction for me that what I can get over the air.

HD DVD titles I have are better quality than Satellite and OTA HD, but the Bluray titles (at best) are equivalent to what I already get on my HD sat-box - so why buy now?

I'll wait until BD delivers better, and enjoy one format for now...

 

[Scott-S]

For me, I am waiting for the Blu-Ray to officially come out, and the players to come down to the $500 range. I have already decided which format I prefer, so I havn't really been hurt by the format war.

We need to embrace new technology instead of trying to squeaze every last drop of improvemout of an old one.

 

[Andrew Bunk]

I had intended to go Blu-Ray once they established themselves, and the Pioneer would have been my player.

But I have to admit, what I'm reading about the Blu-Ray launch titles has me more concerned than the things I read about the HD-DVD launch titles.

That doesn't mean I'm running to HD-DVD-it just means that IMO, neither are ready yet. The firmware upgrade for the Tosh is a big step forward though.

In the end, it's the format war that's keeping me out right now. I believe those who say the picture quality on the HD-DVD titles is stunning. But who cares how good a film looks if you don't like it, or there aren't enough studios supporting it?

Now, I own many of the titles currently in HD-DVD release, but not all of them are worthy of uprading to HD right now. Off the top of my head, I would probably get half the titles available from WB and Uni. Plus, if studios like Fox and Paramount never support HD-DVD, I'll never buy into it as my only format.
And I'm still curious as to why there are no New Line titles available yet, as I thought they were under control of WB's parent.

On the BR side, what I am reading about the intial releases is not encouraging. Fifth Element looks poor? Didn't see that coming.

For every one instance I find myself seriously thinking about pulling the trigger on either format, there are tow instances where I am glad I didn't.

But I will continue to watch the situation.

So in a nutshell, what needs to happen is A) more titles from more studios for both formats, B) non-buggy players, C) corrected versions of early launch titles that are problematic (WB volume on HD-DVD, TFE transfer, etc.), and D) big franchises - give me all the Matrix films, ALL the Harry Potter films, then I'll take the plunge.

 

[Craig*C]

Well...first of all, I'm a former Betamax owner so format wars tend to scare me, but I think the BIGGEST thing holding me back is the fact that DVDs...well...they look pretty darned great as they are. I've seen side-by-side comparos and while the guy doing the comparing was pointing out how crappy the DVD experience was compared to the HD-DVD experiencee...I really couldn't could not see a difference that would justify a 1000 dollar expenditure...or a 300 dollar expenditure for that matter. To be perfectly honest, I think the whole thing is at best, a clever marketing ploy and, at worst, a textbook case of planned obsolescence by the studios.

 

[MarkHastings]

I am also in the "too soon" boat. I also am in the "DVD (through an HDMI player) is spectacular" boat - IMO, the cost for early adoption doesn't seem as worth while as the cost for early adoption with DVD (i.e. DVD was SO much better than VHS).

I guess, from my perspective, upgrading to HD from DVD is like when those were not thrilled about upgrading LD to DVD. When DVD first came out, I got so many of those crappy "VHS" ports, that I fear the same with HD***.

With HD-TV, I see a lot of "bad" HD and I want to wait until HD-DVD presentation irons out it's kinks.

Like I said, I'd love to upgrade now, but I am happy to wait (with DVD) until HD gets a more solid foothold.


*** I realize a lot of the new HD titles are probably wonderful, but once the technology goes mainstream, you know that studios are going to do what they did with DVD (i.e. down and dirty VHS->DVD); they'll upres a bunch of SD-DVD source material to HD just to get a bunch of product out there. That's what I'm really waiting to ride out.

 

[Mark Booth]

I was a home theater nut long before it was fashionable to be a home theater nut. Back in 1976, I had to drive to LA to get my first VHS recorder because not a single store in San Diego carried them. ($1400 for a recorder that had a 24-hour timer to START a SINGLE recording and the recording ended when you ran out of tape.) A few years later, I purchased the very first Pioneer Laserdisc player. I combined both of these units with a 27" Sony XBR and a standard stereo receiver with the speakers wired in a hafler dematrixing circuit to simulate surround sound. (I subsequently purchased my first Dolby decoder around 1982 or so.) Over the next 14 years, I collected over $20,000 worth of titles on Laserdisc and, of course, constantly upgraded all of the equipment. I was in Home Theater heaven!

Then, in 1996, I attended the Consumer Electronics show in Las Vegas and got my first look at DVD. I quickly realized what I had to do. I immediately put my entire Laserdisc collection up for sale by placing a classified ad in the local paper. Within two weeks, I had sold off just about every title and managed to recoup about 70% of of initial investment.

What happened next is the most interesting part.... I waited. DVD players finally hit stores in 1997 and I simply kept waiting. As I recall, I waited until sometime in 1998. I had set a price point of $300 in my mind. I wouldn't buy a DVD player until I could get a nice one for about $300. That took awhile to happen but, as we all know, it eventually happened. Now I have almost twice as many titles on DVD as I ever had on Laserdisc and my total investment in software is about half what I paid for the smaller number of Laserdiscs.

Now, I'm pretty much a gadget freak by nature. I've got or have owned a pretty wide selection electronic toys. I still constantly upgrade to newer and better. But I have to say that I've not really had much more than a mild passing thought about buying into an HD DVD format of one kind or another. Sure, I've been reading about them and I checked out HD-DVD at Best Buy, but, I simply haven't been lusting after them. I can certainly afford them. I don't even have to ask the wife for permission. And I've already got a 70" HDMI set and a HDMI switching A/V receiver that they would work with beautifully with. So, given my home theater history, why am I waiting?

Because I can! I simply don't have the same early adopter urges I once had. I long ago lost the feeling to be "first on the block". I long ago learned that waiting a little while to buy new gadget ultimately means you get a lot better gadget for lots less money. Time has taught me that, by waiting, you can save enough money to buy even more gadgets.

Now, add to that the fact that I have over a dozen channels of high definition programming available to me, plus a very nice collection of DVD titles that (relative to my old Laserdisc days) look fantastic on my current setup, and I find myself perfectly content to sit on the sidelines and wait.

Mark