High Definition DVD: What is Holding You Back? (1 Viewer)

[Jeff Ulmer]

As many have said, the first issue is that there is not a single format, meaning a 50/50 chance of buying a soon to be dead format.

Even with a single format, the next issue is cost of the player, and the first generation glitches. I was there on the front lines with DVD. I can wait until the dust settles for HD content.

Of MAJOR concern is also the ability to play 1080i/720p over component, as that is all my set has, and I am unlikely to be buying a new TV any time soon. Just saying that the locking out of HD over component is being delayed for a few years doesn't cut it.

Assuming all of the above were addressed, there is a distinct lack of titles I am interested in, which will probably be the case for quite a while. I have no interest in most of the bigger mainstream titles which I already have - in some case in multiple versions - on DVD already (most of which I have no desire to see over again anyway after owning the LD and DVD versions).

Even those titles which I would be interested in are unlikely to be repurchased at current software pricing unless the are my few holy grail titles, most of which I am pretty confident will be a long time before a HD release.

I have a feeling that I will be far more discriminating with any HD format than I ever was with DVD given how many titles I have sitting on the shelf with little likelihood of ever seeing the inside of a player again.

I am also concerned about how well the format holds up over time, given the number of DVD titles I own that are no longer playable.

 

[JohnS]

Hey Ron,

Back at the last Home Theater Forum Meet, everyone got to got Sony to demo Blu-Ray titles. I was with you guys, but couldn't go(work), what were your impressions then, as compared to now?

I remember talking with a few after the trip, and they seemeed HIGHLY impressed with Blu-Ray.

Now, with lots of negative reviews for Blu-Ray, what went wrong?

 

[Michael Allred]

I'm not a rich man so the price is a HUGE issue for me. as others have said, having two formats competing does no one any good. Come up with ONE format that all studios support, lower prices of the hardware and people like me would be willing to give it a chance.

Also the titles offered so far don't get me going not to mention that a lot of them don't even have bonus materials on them.

Offer some choice catalog titles like any number of John Carpenter movies in hi def with great supplements and you'd get my interest. You need those "I have GOT to have it!" titles and for me, there aren't any.

 

[Bryan Michael]

i say price price and price. regular dvd are getting cheaper to buy and hd dvd are redicolous in price. i say go with a trade in program. you trade in your dvd for a hd dvd plus the cost of makeing the disk and i will replace my libary

 

[Lou Sytsma]

The leap to a medialess format.

 

[Jason Harbaugh]

I'll get the easy ones out of the way,

- Single format as in every Studio commited to a single standard format.
- Price of players, price of software.
- At least one isle at a Best Buy or Circuit City dedicated to the format and filled with content.

But my biggest issue is quality. You know that every single release that we have seen on HD DVD and Blu-ray so far will be the victim of a double-dip. Some probably earlier than others. So far it doesn't seem like the Studios are taking their transfers seriously. We shouldn't be seeing threads with complaints about image quality already! These are supposed to be high quality HD transfers in a pure digital format. There should be nothing but praise and cheering for what is being shown. Given, not all releases so far have been that way, but even those that are praised can probably be given even better treatment.

So until quality is taken seriously by the Studios, I'll sit out. I still have faith in Blu-ray as being the format with the most potential but it isn't looking like that potential will be even tested for awhile. I probably won't bother until BD-50's are the norm. The PS3 is still looking like my first player, but since E3, even that doesn't look nearly as appealing as it was made out to be.

Overall, I hear a gymnasium full of balls being dropped and I'm anxiously waiting to see who picks one up and runs with it.

 

[RickER]

Amen Jason. I was just thinking, and writing on the "clear winner" page that the way these guys are talking HD DVD and BR both suck. If 1/2 the titles are not living up to the potential of HD then whats wrong with my upconverted DVD?
I have a 50" Tosh Plasma, and 99% of what i throw at it looks really good. The other 1% is mostly early DVD titles. I know the HD formats will get better, but until they do, until i see a movie i HAVE to have, and until we have a winner or combo players, i can wait here on the sides.

 

[Eric_Connelly]

1. Software price..come on, $30 for a movie? I can wait a bit and record it on my DVR.

2. Lack of 1080p clarity issue...what TV's work, what TV's don't work, what unit does output, doesn't, etc...I'm not throwing $500 and then more after that unless I know what exactly I am getting.

3. Rental outlet...we buy very little on the software side, mostly rent. I would guess we do buy about 12 titles per year of keepers.

4. Design...why in 2006 do they need to build these units that look like 1976 JVC VHS Players?

5. Lack of multi-disc players and DVD-A/SACD Support. I don't need another unit sitting in my rack, would like to replace my Yamaha 950C DVD player with 1 unit.

6. Reviews and PQ...I've watched SW III:ROTS on HBO HD and my DVD copy upscaled via my 2600RX-V, there is no where near $500 difference in PQ.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

John,

I don't own either format yet so I can't really comment.

We were very impressed with what we saw at Sony,
but realize, those images were shot on a huge 100'+ screen.
I would think the improvements would be more noticeable at
that size.

What I am reading about Blu-Ray thus far is a bit disheartening.
From bad PQ on The Fifth Element to one of our members
already seeking a refund on his player -- I am not impressed.

 

[Glenise]

I haven't got a display capable of showing these HD films yet...

1. Price - I don't want to even pay $500 for a HD DVD player
2. Price - I don't want to pay $30-$40 for HD-DVDs
3. Price - All the movies that I want would probably come on both formats

 

[Aaron Cooke]

I consider myself to be in the second tier of early adopters. I like technology but I have a somewhat limited income so I have to choose carefully what to purchase. These are the reasons why I have not bought a high def dvd player yet.

#1 by FAR. I will not be replacing my TV anytime soon and it does not have HDMI inputs. I WILL NOT buy any player that has ANY chance of downconverting through component outputs.

#2. Cost. $400 is about the most I'd spend on a player.

#3. Software cost. $20 is about the most I'd spend on discs with a VERY few exceptions.

 

[RomanSohor]

1. Money, I'm a newly wed and I'm working 2 jobs to make ends meet. One of them is inthe Magnolia area of Best Buy. Wish I could afford to use my discount ;-)

2. My existing equipment doesn't take HD. I have an Epson SVGA projector. It doesn't take higher than 480i over component... found that out when I bought a DVB318... and I can't afford any of the decent solutions to go component to vga. I don't have a "reference" setup by any means, but its nice just having a huge image. It impresses everyone I'm friends with, even though I am currently running Y/C for my DVD player. I watch POTC last night and even I was presently surprised with how good it looked.

That being said, if they start releasing HD titles day and date with new releases, and the players get good, depending on my Best Buy discount, I might buy an HD player and run it Y/C or 480i in the mean time, so that when I do get an HDMI projector, I will already had HD software... no sense in not buying the movies (Which I will keep) in the best quality possible, so that when I upgrade my hardware, my collection can make the most of it.

I am immensly happy with how DVD looks on my pretty low end set up, and I like how DVD looks on all the high end sets I've seen it on. I most likely will upgrade very few of my SD titles to HD, but as soon as I can, I'd like to start buying only in HD.

 

[Tony J Case]

Actually, I could care less about the new format. For a number of reasons -

01) It's un-necessary (part one). It's like the going from the original Playstation to the Dreamcast to the PS2. The quantum leap in graphics from the PSX to the Dreamcast was stunning, fantastic, beautiful, etc, etc. The leap from the Dreamcast to the PS2 was a notable improvement, but not a stunning. DVD was thousands of miles of improvement over VHS. The improvement from DVD to DVD2 is considerably less so.

Come back in 10 years when you have holographic crystals or something.

02) It's un-necessary (part two) - it's a money grab pure and simple, a calculated move by the studios to impose more restrictive digital rights management and to milk the customers by bilking them into buying their entire collection over again. I've got 800 discs that are now obsolete, and I just bought a brand new player. I should chuck all this out because the studios say so? F that.

03) It's too damn expensive. Ok, eventually the players would come down in price - that's the curse of the early adopters. But the discs cost a TON of cash now. 30 bucks for new releases when I can get the same title for 10 bucks? Sorry studios - the days of Laserdisc pricing is LONG dead. Pandora's box is open - consumers have had a taste of 10 dollar releases. They're not going back now.

04) Format wars. 'Nuff said.

There's probably more reasons that I haven't thought of yet, but that's a good start for now.

***EDIT***
Thought of ONE more:

05) It's un-necessary (part three). The stuff I'm most intrested in right now looks as good as it will probably ever get: TV shows. I havent bought a movie in a year now. So are you telling me that HR Puffnstuff, Doctor Who and Knight Rider *REALLY* look that much better with another 200 lines of resolution? Not really.

"But all that extra space could go to bonus features!" I hear people say. Piffle - we've got a ton of extra space NOW on the current TV show sets and we cant get the studios to put together a simple talking heads piece with the stars. WHat the hell makes you think they'll do more with an extra 10 terrabites of room in the sets?

 

[Carlos Garcia]

I may be the only one here who won't buy into HD-DVD/BLU-RAY until:

1. The format war is over and there is ONLY 1 winner (I refuse to buy while 2 separate formats exist).

2. The price of a decent player comes down to the ridiculous prices of regular DVD players today ($50-$150 sounds reasonable to me).

3. Since I currently own most of the titles I want on regular DVD, and most were older TV shows, there are VERY FEW (maybe 3 or 4) titles I really want that would benefit from high definition, such as VERTIGO, REAR WINDOW and JAWS.

In other words, I don't plan to upgrade for many years down the road, and then only because the regular DVD format will be dead and the only way to replace a broken unit would be to upgrade to the high definition format. If it takes 5-10 yrs, that's fine...I can wait...and of course by that time, something newer will come along that will promise even better sharpness and colors than the current high definition formats have to offer.

 

[MarkHastings]

I'm not sure if my reasoning is valid, but Comcast offered a free "On Demand" showing of The Fifth Element in HD and I was no more impressed than my newest SD-DVD version.

There's definitely a quality improvement, but not enough for me to revamp my entire setup over. Perhaps the disc looks better than the "On Demand" version, but I'm not about to make a several hundred dollar mistake and realize it's the same.

From what I'm hearing in this thread, early adoption would have been greater if SD-DVD has slowed down, but from the sound of things, SD-DVD is going too strong.

In the past, sure there was LD, but it was so expensive that not too many got into it, so when DVD came out, we were chomping at the bit and didn't mind the expense. I mean, we had gone like 30 years without a real consumer based video delivery method...we were all ready.

But as long as the majority of hardcore HT nuts are still crazy about SD-DVD, HD needs to be better at winning us over. They can't afford wars, player problems, incompatibility issues, etc. etc. etc.

It's like trying to sell a 75" TV to someone with a 70" TV.

 

[Austan]

I was an early adopter of HDTV, so I only have component inputs.
Here's my hang up...
1) Waiting for a "non-wobble" 1080p DLP widescreen rear-projection
2) $500 HD-A1 vs $1000 Blu-Ray, I'll wait for the PS3 at $600
3) I have a Infocus 4805 so need to upgrade that also to affordable 720p

A) You know native 1080p DLP is coming, so don't want to be behind again.
B) For $100 more I get a game console and a HD player
C) Optoma HD72, best bang for you buck!!!

 

[Antonio S]

I'm not playing. Period.
First, Software: The present "standard" DVD format is poorly utilized by the studios. They still havn't learned that "anamorphic" is what is wanted and needed.
If they want my money, I would rather see the present standard improved. Less compression, higher bit rate, whatever it takes. Even if it means loading 2 disks. Hell, I usually have to take a whiz or get a Freeto half way through anyway. Superbit was on the right track. Wha' happened? Oh yeah, HD DVD. If they cannot be depended on to get standard DVD right, what can we expect from HD/BR.
Hardware: I'm a late DVD adapter. Was quite happy with VHS. A friend actually gave me my present player. Yep, the quality is better. I like the handy format and easy storage. So much so that I began collecting movies, and found this forum.
Frankly I believe that a good region free DVD player will satisfy my needs to a much greater extant than HD or BR. I'll be able to get those films that so far have been ignored, and at a better price.
Tony....

 

[Dan Szwarc]

1.) 1080p availablility. 1080i is so 90s and is not the best.
2.) Competing formats. End the format war or be prepared to get less than half of the market because some of the market will stay away. There can be only one.
3.) Poor Quality transfers. If it's HD, it should be good HD, not just high definition dirty prints or upconverted junk. It has to be better than DVD.
4.) Cost of players and hardware: Keep it similar to DVD, if not slightly above. $200 players and $25 movies.
5.) Better movies. Bring on the blockbusters. Bring on Star Wars.
6.) Licensing and fair use. I want to own my movie and do what I want with it.

 

[RomanSohor]

I was wondering for TV on DVD - from what I hear many shows only exist as 480i video masters. Other than less compression, I'd think that rather than scale everthing to and pillarbox it, they could put a whole season in SD on one disc.

It will be interesting to see how that shapes up.

 

[Roy Batty]

Many before me have summarized it here quite well, so I will not go into it again, but...

Simply put, the "cons" outweigh the "pros" so overwhelmingly right now that it is not worth it (with the warring formats being for me the major issue).

And while DVD was a quantum leap from VHS, the feeling here with HD-DVD that we are being ripped off by greedy corporations does not help, either.