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Finally buying a new car (1 Viewer)

Todd Erwin

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After looking on and off for three years, my wife and I finally made the plunge and purchased a new car. We have been needing and wanting a 4WD or AWD SUV ever since we moved to rural Nevada, as our 2002 and 2008 Toyota Camry's just weren't cutting it in the last two major snow storms we had in the last year, and the most recent storm almost two weeks ago was the sign that we needed to find a car ASAP.

My wife has had major neck and back surgeries, most recently a 4-level fusion in the neck followed 6 weeks later with a 2-level fusion in the lower back. Prior to that, she had a 2-level fusion in 2002 (the middle discs where her neck surgery was last year), so she required as smooth a ride as possible. Our last four vehicles were Toyotas, so we looked at the 2022 and 2023 Highlanders, and even a 2019 certified pre-owned model, and they were all just too rough for her. The Ford Explorer was even worse, and pretty much every other mid-sized SUV. At least, until we test drove a used 2017 Nissan Pathfinder. It was the smoothest ride for her, but the vehicle itself was not well taken care of and reeked of cigarette smoke.

This weekend, we stopped at the Nissan dealership to test drive the newly redesigned Pathfinder. She really wanted to love that vehicle, but ultimately, it was still too much like a truck in how it drove, and she could feel every pothole in the road. The salesman then introduced us to the Sales Manager and asked him what he thought might be a good fit for us. He recommended the Murano. We had not thought of that model, since it looked too much like a car, but they pointed out to us the higher clearance than a typical sedan and that it was an AWD. They also had a demo they were trying to clear out before the end of the month that had 2200 miles on it. We decided to give it a try, and she really liked how it handled, but didn't like the black leather interior, as it tends to get hot in the Nevada heat. The manager offered to knock $10k off the price, and told him we would need to think about it and wanted to test drive one or two other cars. Both salesmen said that they were there until 6:00pm, and we told them that we would likely have an answer by then.

We then test drove a 2023 Hyundai Tucson, but found the ride rough and the seats hard as a rock, and as soon as she sat in the Santa Fe, it was a no-go based on the driver's seat alone. Back to the Nissan dealer and another look at that demo Murano. We discussed it between us further, and decided to take the plunge. The manager knocked another $1500 off the price since we were paying cash (we have been putting away for a new vehicle ever since we paid off my 2008 Camry), and we drove it home that night. We may end up getting seat covers for the summer months due to the black interior. I am not sure why, but the auto makers don't seem to make many vehicles with lighter colored interiors anymore.
 

Ronald Epstein

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Congrats on your new Murano, Todd.

Just looked at Nissan's site and the vehicle you bought. Very nice.

So, it has a black leather interior but I don't think I caught what exterior color you ended up with.

Did your vehicle come with the sunroof package?

Congrats, again. Always like hearing about people getting new cars.
 

Todd Erwin

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Congrats on your new Murano, Todd.

Just looked at Nissan's site and the vehicle you bought. Very nice.

So, it has a black leather interior but I don't think I caught what exterior color you ended up with.

Did your vehicle come with the sunroof package?

Congrats, again. Always like hearing about people getting new cars.
The car came fully loaded, even a Bose (?) sound system with a CD player (??). It also came with the full sunroof that goes from the front to the rear passenger seats. It has a black leather interior, which is fine right now in the winter months, and a white pearl exterior. We'll see how well the black interior works when summer hits, as it often reaches low triple digits here.
 

Scott Merryfield

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The car came fully loaded, even a Bose (?) sound system with a CD player (??). It also came with the full sunroof that goes from the front to the rear passenger seats. It has a black leather interior, which is fine right now in the winter months, and a white pearl exterior. We'll see how well the black interior works when summer hits, as it often reaches low triple digits here.
Since it's fully loaded, does it have cooled / heated seats? If so, that should mitigate the hot seats in the summer.
 

Malcolm R

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I want a heated steering wheel on my next car. Honda seems to offer that only on Canadian models in North America (unless that's changed in the past 3 years or so since I bought my current car).
 

Scott Merryfield

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Seats and steering wheel are heated but not cooled.
That's too bad. My wife's loaded 2019 Buick Encore is the same - - heated leather seats and steering wheel, but seats not cooled. Her seats are tan, though, and haven't been an issue during hot summer days. The heat, though, is welcome during those cold winter Michigan days.
 

Jeffrey D

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I want a heated steering wheel on my next car. Honda seems to offer that only on Canadian models in North America (unless that's changed in the past 3 years or so since I bought my current car).
The heated steering wheel definitely is a nice feature to have.
 

Martino

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"We may end up getting seat covers for the summer months due to the black interior."

I have sheepskin seat covers on my front seats and live in Texas, where it gets very hot in the summer. They are great and never get too hot in the summer or cold in the winter, and even will protect your leather seats. You can get a pair of them for around $100....
 

DaveF

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I gave some thought to getting a new car this year, but it's going to be a 2025 purchase. I need the current EVs to get some minor design updates before I'm ready to buy (particularly NACS charger connector integrated) and see if the federal credit becomes available on more models.
 

Ted Todorov

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I gave some thought to getting a new car this year, but it's going to be a 2025 purchase. I need the current EVs to get some minor design updates before I'm ready to buy (particularly NACS charger connector integrated) and see if the federal credit becomes available on more models.
As someone who's first and only car ever is an EV (before we got it in the summer of 2020, it was strictly public transportation (subways, trains, planes - never a bus fan) and car rentals. I am a very strong EV advocate -- ours (a Tesla Model Y) has been a radically better experience than any gas or diesel car I've ever driven including Mercedes, BMW, Acura, Toyota, etc.

There is a lot of EV anxiety that 40,000 miles of driving over 3.5 years has shown me are false: range anxiety, charger anxiety, battery anxiety, tire anxiety.

Range and charging: the opposite is true - never having to go to a gas station because you are leaving in the morning with a charged battery and on a normal day coming back and pugging in your EV - spending 15 seconds I the procedure of unplugging and plugging in your car. On a road trip, where you are going more than 250~300 miles, you end up stoping at Supercharger where it is time to stretch, walk the dogs, have a snack anyway. I am yet to encounter a full Supercharger where I have to wait for an open stall nor is it ever as complicated as a gas station. Step 1, plug in the charger. There is no step 2.

The batteries don't lose their range or need to be replaced. Our EV has a 120,000 mile, 8 year battery warranty -- and the reason they give you that is they expect the failure rate within the warranty limits to be negligibly small. Probably most last for 250K miles or more. Fear of fire? Avoid buying an ICE or Hybrid car -- they are 10X more likely to have a fire than an EV. Tires wearing out more quickly because EVs are heavier? After 40k miles, we are still on our original tires.

Features I love: Dog Mode - ability to leave your dogs in the car with the AC or heater keeping the car at the precise temperature you and your pups approve -- with a big sign on the display informing passers buy that your doggies are fine, they don't need to break the car windows. Similarly Camp Mode allows you to sleep in the car at the desired temp. HEPA filters with an optional bioweapon defense mode to insure clean air no matter what. Instant acceleration and single peddle driving with regen braking which apart from extending your battery range means your brake pads never wear out. Frunk and trunk for extra storage an convenience. Autopilot which makes long trips vastly less stressful. Mobile Service -- instead of going to a dealership or garage to rotate the tires, replace a filter or deal with most other minor issues, they will come to you. Over The Air software updates which means you end up with a better car now than the one you bought years ago. No need for car keys -- everyone gets done through your smartphone from locking/unlocking the car, to setting the temperature remotely, video access to you car if you have pet/safety concerns, etc. Ability to lend your car to friends/neighbors remotely -- we did it from Europe last summer.

TL;DR: Don't hesitate to get an EV with NACS (aka SAE J3400) support. If you have any EV related questions, I'll be glad to answer
 

Ronald Epstein

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As someone who's first and only car ever is an EV (before we got it in the summer of 2020, it was strictly public transportation (subways, trains, planes - never a bus fan) and car rentals. I am a very strong EV advocate -- ours (a Tesla Model Y) has been a radically better experience than any gas or diesel car I've ever driven including Mercedes, BMW, Acura, Toyota, etc.

There is a lot of EV anxiety that 40,000 miles of driving over 3.5 years has shown me are false: range anxiety, charger anxiety, battery anxiety, tire anxiety.

Range and charging: the opposite is true - never having to go to a gas station because you are leaving in the morning with a charged battery and on a normal day coming back and pugging in your EV - spending 15 seconds I the procedure of unplugging and plugging in your car. On a road trip, where you are going more than 250~300 miles, you end up stoping at Supercharger where it is time to stretch, walk the dogs, have a snack anyway. I am yet to encounter a full Supercharger where I have to wait for an open stall nor is it ever as complicated as a gas station. Step 1, plug in the charger. There is no step 2.

The batteries don't lose their range or need to be replaced. Our EV has a 120,000 mile, 8 year battery warranty -- and the reason they give you that is they expect the failure rate within the warranty limits to be negligibly small. Probably most last for 250K miles or more. Fear of fire? Avoid buying an ICE or Hybrid car -- they are 10X more likely to have a fire than an EV. Tires wearing out more quickly because EVs are heavier? After 40k miles, we are still on our original tires.

Features I love: Dog Mode - ability to leave your dogs in the car with the AC or heater keeping the car at the precise temperature you and your pups approve -- with a big sign on the display informing passers buy that your doggies are fine, they don't need to break the car windows. Similarly Camp Mode allows you to sleep in the car at the desired temp. HEPA filters with an optional bioweapon defense mode to insure clean air no matter what. Instant acceleration and single peddle driving with regen braking which apart from extending your battery range means your brake pads never wear out. Frunk and trunk for extra storage an convenience. Autopilot which makes long trips vastly less stressful. Mobile Service -- instead of going to a dealership or garage to rotate the tires, replace a filter or deal with most other minor issues, they will come to you. Over The Air software updates which means you end up with a better car now than the one you bought years ago. No need for car keys -- everyone gets done through your smartphone from locking/unlocking the car, to setting the temperature remotely, video access to you car if you have pet/safety concerns, etc. Ability to lend your car to friends/neighbors remotely -- we did it from Europe last summer.

TL;DR: Don't hesitate to get an EV with NACS (aka SAE J3400) support. If you have any EV related questions, I'll be glad to answer

I have a different attitude towards EV vehicles as an owner of a PHEV. Not that it's a bad one, but I do notice shortcomings that most of the public is not aware of when they buy one of these cars.

I have a 2022 Lincoln Corsair PEHV. Its rated EV range is 34 miles. I opted for a PHEV over a full electric as I feel we are still in the infancy of this technology and I don't want to be stuck with an all-EV vehicle that I am going to have to stop and charge during a long trip (further delaying my trip.

A PEHV is perfect for my needs. I am retired and only drive a few short miles to the grocery store or my girlfriend's house. I can do it all in under the 34 allotted miles, that is, if conditions are right. In all, I only put 1/4 of a tank of gas in my vehicle once every 6 weeks. I have more money in my pocket at the end of the month as it's not going toward gas. I also have solar tiles on my roof so the energy that is being produced to charge my vehicle comes with no additional costs.

But there is a downside to EV vehicles that people who buy them aren't even aware of. I know this because, on the Lincoln Forums, I always see comments from new owners who are completely surprised that they aren't getting the battery performance they were promised.

So, earlier I stated that my PEHV (which is a hybrid car plus electric) has an all-EV range of 34 miles. This is what the manufacturer rates it for. However, in real-world conditions, you aren't going to get nearly that range out of your battery.

The winter months are the worst for EV owners. The cold weather kills your battery. My initial charge goes from 34 miles in the Summer to 21 miles on the coldest days. Out of your driveway, you lose approx. 2 miles out of the gate just for all the electronics that are needed to keep your vehicle warm.

Another thing that wastes away your EV mileage is road speed. Once you start driving at highway speeds, your available EV range rapidly decreases. It makes sense -- you need more power to move your vehicle at 60+ MPH.

Ted mentions that the batteries don't lose their range or need to be replaced. I can't speak to that from experience, but from everything I have researched, these batteries start degrading after a few short years due to constant charging. In other words, I should expect to see less available EV range at full charge as my vehicle gets older.

When I say this technology is still in its infancy, it's because I don't think we have gotten to the point where we can get more than a few hundred miles of EV range before the vehicle needs to be charged and that's concerning for me. I don't want my trip interrupted as I sit at a charging station for how many hours it's going to take to charge it back up. I keep reading that we are on the cusp of inventing batteries that are lighter and capable of twice the EV range (think 1,000 miles) but to date, I haven't seen these batteries materialize.

All that being said, I have a lot of respect for EV vehicles. Though mine is only partially EV, I love the torque I get when speeding up as well as the dead silent ride that comes from an engine not running. I suspect my next vehicle in 8-10 years will be all-electric and certainly, by that time, I think the technology will be perfected.
 

Ted Todorov

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I have a different attitude towards EV vehicles as an owner of a PHEV. Not that it's a bad one, but I do notice shortcomings that most of the public is not aware of when they buy one of these cars.

I have a 2022 Lincoln Corsair PEHV. Its rated EV range is 34 miles. I opted for a PHEV over a full electric as I feel we are still in the infancy of this technology and I don't want to be stuck with an all-EV vehicle that I am going to have to stop and charge during a long trip (further delaying my trip.

A PEHV is perfect for my needs. I am retired and only drive a few short miles to the grocery store or my girlfriend's house. I can do it all in under the 34 allotted miles, that is, if conditions are right. In all, I only put 1/4 of a tank of gas in my vehicle once every 6 weeks. I have more money in my pocket at the end of the month as it's not going toward gas. I also have solar tiles on my roof so the energy that is being produced to charge my vehicle comes with no additional costs.

But there is a downside to EV vehicles that people who buy them aren't even aware of. I know this because, on the Lincoln Forums, I always see comments from new owners who are completely surprised that they aren't getting the battery performance they were promised.

So, earlier I stated that my PEHV (which is a hybrid car plus electric) has an all-EV range of 34 miles. This is what the manufacturer rates it for. However, in real-world conditions, you aren't going to get nearly that range out of your battery.

The winter months are the worst for EV owners. The cold weather kills your battery. My initial charge goes from 34 miles in the Summer to 21 miles on the coldest days. Out of your driveway, you lose approx. 2 miles out of the gate just for all the electronics that are needed to keep your vehicle warm.

Another thing that wastes away your EV mileage is road speed. Once you start driving at highway speeds, your available EV range rapidly decreases. It makes sense -- you need more power to move your vehicle at 60+ MPH.

Ted mentions that the batteries don't lose their range or need to be replaced. I can't speak to that from experience, but from everything I have researched, these batteries start degrading after a few short years due to constant charging. In other words, I should expect to see less available EV range at full charge as my vehicle gets older.

When I say this technology is still in its infancy, it's because I don't think we have gotten to the point where we can get more than a few hundred miles of EV range before the vehicle needs to be charged and that's concerning for me. I don't want my trip interrupted as I sit at a charging station for how many hours it's going to take to charge it back up. I keep reading that we are on the cusp of inventing batteries that are lighter and capable of twice the EV range (think 1,000 miles) but to date, I haven't seen these batteries materialize.

All that being said, I have a lot of respect for EV vehicles. Though mine is only partially EV, I love the torque I get when speeding up as well as the dead silent ride that comes from an engine not running. I suspect my next vehicle in 8-10 years will be all-electric and certainly, by that time, I think the technology will be perfected.
The typical length of a stop at a V3 Tesla Supercharger is 15 ~ 20 minutes, not "hours". I don't know about you but when we are on a road trip I want to have a break of that length every few hours, to stretch, maybe have a snack or drink, go to the bathroom and give our dogs a short walk. Almost inevitably the charge is done before we and the doggies are ready to resume our journey.

You are right that range does go down if it is very cold, or you are going uphill at high altitude (so does the range of gas vehicle under those same conditions). But if you have 300+ mile range to start with, that's not a concern. A 34 mile range of a hybrid ... is well... not of much use, which is why I wouldn't recommend a hybrid to anyone.

Yes, battery degradation also exists, but after 40K miles, 3.5 years on our EV it is very slight. Typically for your day to day driving you keep the battery in the 80% to 20% level, which helps minimize degradation. Again, if you are unlucky and end up with serious battery degradation, the batteries are under 8 year warranty -- they would be replaced free of charge.

FWIW, our typical drives have been from NYC to Princeton, NJ and back (we typically only charge at my mom's house in Princeton) or from NYC to Woodstock or Bovina or Lake Minnewaska. Range or waste of time charging have never been an issue -- again this has been less problem inducing than stopping at a gas station.
 

DaveF

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An EV would be an excellent fit for me, I think. My daily commute is 20 miles round trip. I could recharge over night over 120V garage outlet, or recharge over the weekend. I’m solar at home so some portion of my charging would be free. I don’t do car trip vacations much at at now. But if I do, I’m along the eastern D.C. corridor and my EV-owning friends assure me there’s plenty of chargers around here.

But a new EV is $60k, whereas the car I own is $2000 a year average gas and maintenance. An EV never pays for itself and it’s better money to not buy until I’m completely ready. So another year is fine.
 

Ted Todorov

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But a new EV is $60k, whereas the car I own is $2000 a year average gas and maintenance. An EV never pays for itself and it’s better money to not buy until I’m completely ready. So another year is fine.
The EV we have, the Tesla Model Y, which, coincidentally was the best selling car (not just EV, but car, period) in the entire world in 2023, currently costs $43,990 for the RWD and $48,990 for the AWD Long Range (which is the one we have). This is before the $7,500 Federal incentive plus the state incentive (AFAIK NY State offers a $2,000 incentive). At this point the price of the Tesla Model Y RWD is down to $34,490 -- a far cry from $60K.

Ronald Epstein said: "When I say this technology is still in its infancy, it's because I don't think we have gotten to the point where we can get more than a few hundred miles of EV range before the vehicle needs to be charged and that's concerning for me. I don't want my trip interrupted as I sit at a charging station for how many hours it's going to take to charge it back up. I keep reading that we are on the cusp of inventing batteries that are lighter and capable of twice the EV range (think 1,000 miles) but to date, I haven't seen these batteries materialize."
As I said before fast charging takes ~15 minutes not "many hours" so taking a road trip with an EV is very practical, it certainly has always been in our experience. And while I don't doubt that EV technology will keep improving, just as computer and smartphone technology does -- the future is now. We buy new computer or smartphones now, even if their CPU may be faster in the future, So far as "lighter batteries with 1,000 mile range" there is no such thing that has already been invented. If it ever is invented, we are talking many years in the future before it is mass produced.

What is absolutely true is that the existing EV battery technology keeps getting less expensive -- so the EV that costs $34K now will likely go down substantially on battery costs, and certainly a $25K mainstream EV will be here within a couple of years.

But the existing EVs of 2024 are not in their infancy -- the Tesla Roadster came out in 2008, the Tesla Model S in 2012. Back then it was fair to say that EVs were in their infancy. But now, there is a wide selection and our EV from 2020 was ready for prime time back then. The EV infancy is long over.
 

DaveF

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Even a $35k EV is a lot more expensive than driving what I own until the right EV is out. Tesla doesn’t suit my needs and tastes, and the $7500 credit is basically not available for any EV of interest (only for Tesla Y and giant trucks).

EVs are nascent, and new models are still to be released. So I’ll give it another year. :)
 

Ted Todorov

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Even a $35k EV is a lot more expensive than driving what I own until the right EV is out. Tesla doesn’t suit my needs and tastes, and the $7500 credit is basically not available for any EV of interest (only for Tesla Y and giant trucks).

EVs are nascent, and new models are still to be released. So I’ll give it another year. :)
I don't doubt your choice on the price -- and like I said, EVs will get even less expensive in the near future due to the continued collapse in the price of batteries. But I did want to correct your take on Tesla pricing, which is often thought to be higher by tens of thousands of dollars than the actual price. One of the reasons this is happening:

Tesla does not advertise, they never have. Imagine an alternative universe in which Apple didn't advertise and everything was just based on word of mouth from people who were very excited by their iPhone or iPod or Mac and told all their friends and relatives about it. This is why I got a Tesla in 2020, the first and only car I've ever bought - my cousin who'd had a Model S for a few years wouldn't shut up about what an incredible car it was and how radically less tiring and stressful was taking long trips using Autopilot. I hated being on the highway with car rentals - his words really spoke to me - we took a test drive and ordered a Model Y immediately. Not having to deal with a car dealership was another huge plus.

But most people don't immediately go to https://www.tesla.com/ to check the pricing and many seem to think that they are way more expensive than they actually are. Apple went through years of combating the "overpriced" moniker even with their massive advertising. As an EV enthusiast I'm just trying to make sure people are aware of the actual price.
 

Ted Todorov

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For those looking for an EV that’s not a Tesla, and have patience to wait 2-3 years, here are Rivian’s new EVs — they look great to me:
 

Clinton McClure

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On the topic of EVs vs petrol-powered automobiles:

IMG_0239.jpeg
 

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