Denon avr 331ci

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by nystad, Jan 5, 2014.

  1. nystad

    nystad Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2013
    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    0
    Would appreciate someone's advice in terms of possible receiver upgrading.I've had this receiver for about one year. Powering a theater room that's 12 x 25'. 3 pinnacle bd650 speakers for the center and front channel with in wall pinnacles for the other four. Plenty of base with three svs subs. Basic question. I know this receiver is a pretty decent receiver for a room of this size but definitely, I think there is plenty of room for improvement given all of the other receivers I've seen on the market most of which cost a fair amount more. If I was willing to sell this receiver off and spend maybe around double the price of this receiver for an upgrade, do you think there are some worthwhile options or would the gains be fairly small? I know this is a tough question about any educated opinions would be great to hear. It just seems that he little more power and quality might be worthwhile. I seem to watch many movies with 75% volume. And everything has been professionally tweaked several times.Thanks!Nystad
     
  2. schan1269

    schan1269 HTF Expert
    HW Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2012
    Messages:
    17,112
    Likes Received:
    899
    Location:
    Chicago-ish/NW Indiana
    Real Name:
    Sam
    If the 3313 isn't doing what...You might need to step up to separates.Starting with the Integra DHC 60.5.
     
  3. schan1269

    schan1269 HTF Expert
    HW Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2012
    Messages:
    17,112
    Likes Received:
    899
    Location:
    Chicago-ish/NW Indiana
    Real Name:
    Sam
    This phone sucks sometimes...First line..."If the 3313 isn't doing what you want..."
     
  4. nystad

    nystad Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2013
    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    0
    I admit I'm never happy... But seems like the system is bit underpowered. Often I'm running it at 75% max volume and wonder if a beafier higher end receiver would result in noticeable differences? With all the theater receivers out there seems I could have gone much higher end?
     
  5. schan1269

    schan1269 HTF Expert
    HW Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2012
    Messages:
    17,112
    Likes Received:
    899
    Location:
    Chicago-ish/NW Indiana
    Real Name:
    Sam
    I run my main theater at -15 to -10.TV is listened to around -25 to -20.If you are higher than that...you might need more.When I reviewed the Elite SC79, I wanted to see the difference Class D meant in power draw.Effortlessly, it got my 40x40 room, with 5 92db speakers, to 110db. Of course I was wearing ear plugs.My Onkyo SR707 also got the room to 110. But the Onkyo It was all she had(literally. My wall socket power meter showed it was sucking more than 6 amps...Which is right where it is rated).So, pick up a wall meter(they are cheap and an early detection for problems with an electrical device. You can use then to detect start-up power. If start- up power starts to fluctuate, you can fix a power supply before it dies), SPL meter and some ear plugs.Modern electronics are based on power doubling. So from "10" down to "9" You are already at 50%, "8" is 25%, "7" is 12.5%.So running it 85-90 is normal.
     
  6. nystad

    nystad Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2013
    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    0
    Do you think there would be noticeable difference if I upgraded to the denon avr 4520 ci with same speaker setup? Any experience w this receiver?
     
  7. schan1269

    schan1269 HTF Expert
    HW Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2012
    Messages:
    17,112
    Likes Received:
    899
    Location:
    Chicago-ish/NW Indiana
    Real Name:
    Sam
    Other than the "2 extra on-board channels" the 4520 pulls another 110 watts off the wall.

    Which means it has 55-ish extra watts to divide up between the channels.

    Inconsequential. However, if you are already using 90%> of the 3313(which I doubt) then the extra headroom could be nice.

    Otherwise...
    http://www.amazon.com/Marantz-MM8077-7-Channel-Power-Amplifier/dp/B00A203I2A/ref=sr_1_20?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1389372525&sr=1-20&keywords=7+channel+amp (notice it pulls more off the wall than the 4520...and it doesn't do anything besides provide power)

    There are MANY other options. You could take a "baby step" with this...
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Hafler-DH-500-Stereo-Power-Amplifier-Free-Shipping-/261364172419?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item3cda84c683 (notice it pulls 1200 watts...for just two channels)
     
  8. schan1269

    schan1269 HTF Expert
    HW Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2012
    Messages:
    17,112
    Likes Received:
    899
    Location:
    Chicago-ish/NW Indiana
    Real Name:
    Sam
    And yes, I know the Hafler DH-500 is not what many people would call a "baby step" in the amp department...

    But if the 3313, with his speakers, isn't achieving the desired sonic assault...time to bring in a Howitzer...
     
  9. Type A

    Type A HW Reviewer
    HW Reviewer

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2007
    Messages:
    800
    Likes Received:
    44
    Location:
    Portland Oregon
    Real Name:
    Ty
    Youre lucky to have a processor with preouts, however spending $2k+ on an amp is just crazy talk. Do yourself a favor and check out a 5 channel Emotiva amp for $1k. Emotiva amps have a 30 day in home trial and great warranty, much more power than any new AVR will give you. So if a solid external amp doesnt give you the power you desire youre not stuck with extra gear you dont need. They also have a good online community and often used amps come up for a little cheaper if $1k is too rich for your blood...

    http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/amplifiers/products/xpa-5
     
  10. schan1269

    schan1269 HTF Expert
    HW Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2012
    Messages:
    17,112
    Likes Received:
    899
    Location:
    Chicago-ish/NW Indiana
    Real Name:
    Sam
    @ Type A...

    That Marantz was the "only other" 7 channel I found on Amazon within 30 seconds of looking. The other was a Emotiva 100x7(UP-700???) which wouldn't have made any difference. Well, it might...but 100x7 isn't going to be noticeable over what the 3313 brings to the table.(cause the 100x7 is still not based on all 7 channels)

    By the way, if you are prepared and willing to drop another 20amp dedicated line into the theatre...
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/EARTHQUAKE-SOUND-CINENOVA-GRANDE-7-Multi-Channel-Power-Amplifier-NEW-/160955989397?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item2579b97d95

    That would eat the Marantz 8077 for lunch.

    And Type A's choice is beefier than the Marantz...but still wouldn't hold the jockstrap of that Cinenova.

    Food for thought...

    The MM8077 pulls 870(I think that is what it said)
    The XPA 500 pulls 1800.
    The Cinenova pulls 2400.

    The Hafler DH500 pulls 1000, just for two channels. So three DH500 would pull 3000 for 6 total channels.
     
  11. Type A

    Type A HW Reviewer
    HW Reviewer

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2007
    Messages:
    800
    Likes Received:
    44
    Location:
    Portland Oregon
    Real Name:
    Ty
    At almost four times the price I would sure the hell hope so. I sometimes really wonder about you Sam :rolleyes:
     
  12. schan1269

    schan1269 HTF Expert
    HW Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2012
    Messages:
    17,112
    Likes Received:
    899
    Location:
    Chicago-ish/NW Indiana
    Real Name:
    Sam
    I'm going on the assumption the 4520 would be bought around $2000(I don't know if he's want a refurb). Don't know if where he bought the 3313 would allow a trade to it either...

    Anyway...buying the 4520 for "extra power" is nonsense.

    There are better ways to spend the "let's say" $1500.

    If he were to buy all three(I know there are three...maybe more???) DH500 on Ebay...

    $1650 there...or $1000 on the XPA-500...

    Which would you pick?
     
  13. nystad

    nystad Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2013
    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    0
    Much of this flies over my head. Let me phrase it differently for my simple self. If you were building yourself a theater with a basement theater already in place, 12 by 25 feet, below garage, 8.5 feet ceilings, had to use 3 pinnacle bd650 for front sound and pinn wafr in wall for back 4, 3 svs nsd subs, keeping w 7.1 setup, willing to drop up to 4k for the receiver, only consideration was how theater performed, what would you choose. I guess the only other issue is that the surroundsound on the main level of my home also uses this receiver through wifi but that could prob be modified. Was the 331 a good choice for room?
     
  14. Type A

    Type A HW Reviewer
    HW Reviewer

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2007
    Messages:
    800
    Likes Received:
    44
    Location:
    Portland Oregon
    Real Name:
    Ty
    Solid system and that AVR is just fine if you like the sound and features. However I would only use it to drive a pair of inwalls or maybe both pair if you just want to add a three channel amp.

    I would either do this, just for your front stage:
    http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/amplifiers/products/xpa-3

    Or, my preference, try the 5 channel I linked earlier and drive just a pair of inwalls with your AVR. That adds a solid 200 watts per channel to 5 channels and should create a much more effortless system thats more dynamic and full. The AVR should be fine driving just two inwalls, even at higher volumes.
     
  15. schan1269

    schan1269 HTF Expert
    HW Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2012
    Messages:
    17,112
    Likes Received:
    899
    Location:
    Chicago-ish/NW Indiana
    Real Name:
    Sam
    AVR choice is nothing more than the features you'll use.Like said, if volume is the problem, there is no AVR that is going to do(noticeably) more than your 3313.Not even the Anthem MRX 700, Onkyo NR5010 or Elite SC79.I'm hard pressed to believe your 7 speakers aren't already capable of reaching 110db at your seat. 105Db is reference standard.How deaf do you want to get?
     
  16. schan1269

    schan1269 HTF Expert
    HW Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2012
    Messages:
    17,112
    Likes Received:
    899
    Location:
    Chicago-ish/NW Indiana
    Real Name:
    Sam
    If you read my review of the Elite SC79, you'll note I went for a "maximum SPL" .The disc I used was the Dundelin version of Handel's Messiah(link on that thread) that is, during the stretch I used, a very easy load.Anyway. The SR707, Denon 4308 And SC79 all achieved 105db during Underworld: Awakening. The SR707 is the equal to your 3313.It got to 110db and 105db in a 40x40 room with 5 speakers.
     
  17. Jason Charlton

    Jason Charlton Ambassador

    Joined:
    May 16, 2002
    Messages:
    3,531
    Likes Received:
    395
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    Real Name:
    Jason Charlton
    OK, following this thread for a while now...

    Exactly, what kind of "difference" are you looking for? What is currently "unsatisfying" with your setup?

    You keep mentioning that you're running at 75% volume - is it not loud enough for you? Can you get it as loud as you want? Do you just want a system that will get "that loud" at 50% volume?

    I tend to think Sam is correct in that no AVR is going to make an appreciable difference to what you have now.

    Still, understanding better what the "problem" is will make finding a solution that much easier.
     
  18. schan1269

    schan1269 HTF Expert
    HW Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2012
    Messages:
    17,112
    Likes Received:
    899
    Location:
    Chicago-ish/NW Indiana
    Real Name:
    Sam
    Exactly.I've mentioned, more than once...and on his originating thread about Pinnacle to begin with...75% of volume means you are using, roughly, 18% of your power.Again...ad nauseam....0Db(If you use the scale the "rest of us use") is 100% gain(sorta).-10 is 50% gain.-20 is 25% gain.-30 is 12.5% gain.You, we think, are at -25.(if taking your 75% literally and correctly)I listened to Babylon(IFC) at -25 last night.
     
  19. nystad

    nystad Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2013
    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    0
    You are probably right in that The output is probably more than adequate. I'm just never happy. I'll probably let it be.
     

Share This Page