At last talking Laurel and Hardy in Region 1 (1 Viewer)

[Randy_M]

Hopefully, this will sell pretty well. I think if people like Mr. Salas publicize this, people will buy it.

In the late 50s and early 60s when I was a kid, these were shown all the time here in the Twin Cities. There must be scads of people my age who would buy this if they just find out about it.

I've been dutifully introducing my son (now 13) to these, and he loves them as much as I do. We started when he was about 6 years old.

Think we'll go watch my tape of Sons of the Desert tonight in anticipation of the disc coming out.

Cheers

 

[Bill Burns]

Given the serious trouble I've found with Hallmark's Topper (released through Artisan as a double bill with Hal Roach Studios' Topper Returns), specifically troubles with motion blur and terrible "flicker" (which looks like an interlace problem ... I'd assume all was due to a PAL-NTSC transfer gone particularly bad, but that's only a guess), I'm wary of further Hallmark releases at the moment. I know virtually nothing about the company itself (I've bought a few of their cards ), but is it possible they've either licensed or are otherwise using PAL masters for their video product? Or is Topper some sort of fluke? I'm disturbed that, so far as I've found, no on-line reviewer has picked up on the Topper trouble. It isn't a problem with my display -- carefully calibrated with Avia, it's an interlaced flat screen viewed through component cables, and the nuances of good and bad transfers come through very clearly. Topper Returns, while having a rather weak contrast range, nevertheless shows none of Topper's troubles. The sad thing is that Topper has a very appealing contrast range and was probably derived from very good source elements.

On-line reviews seem oblivious to Topper's woes, and so I don't know whom to trust for reviews of further Hallmark product. But I'm certainly of the "wait and see" mindset at the moment; they have to rise quite a ways from their presentation of Topper to make a DVD of what I'd consider acceptable, much less ideal, viewing.

For those keeping track of such things, I'd qualify Topper's motion blur as several factors worse than that of the new Region 1 Chaplin discs, and the Chaplins don't seem to suffer from any "flicker" at all, yet flicker remains a perpetual problem on Topper. We know the Chaplin issues to be PAL-NTSC related, so ... what of Topper? As I said, a very bad PAL-NTSC transfer (a truly botched conversion, in other words), or something else? Does the flicker improve on progressive displays? It shouldn't be there in interlace -- more than 700 other Region 1 DVDs look rock solid on my interlaced (and anamorphic capable) set, from the silent era through yesterday's blockbuster. Without definitive answers, I remain of two minds about further Hallmark news. L&H deserve their place beneath the DVD sun, but it needs to be a place of quality and care. I hope it proves to be just that.

 

[Randy_M]

Boy, I sure didn't see the terrible problems described above on my copy of Topper. It's not the best transfer I've ever seen, but it's generally problem-free.

Played on a Panasonic RP91, and a Toshiba 50H81 ISF calibrated by Gregg Loewen.

Do you think you may have gotten a bad pressing?

 

[Mark Zimmer]

What do you want to bet that these are conversions of the PAL discs from Europe rather than honest NTSC versions? Warner cheaped out in this manner with the Chaplins, and I'd be surprised if that didn't happen here.

 

[Bill Burns]

Anything's possible, Randy. I dunno. Again, Topper Returns looks just fine, but not Topper, at least on my copy. Your set-up is progressive, yes? Do you have the ability to watch films in interlaced mode? I don't know enough about the technology itself to say why a transfer might be fouled in interlace, but look all right in progressive, but the "flicker" I'm seeing certainly has the look of an interlace problem. Here's a clear example: in the scene early in the picture where Cary and his wife are leaving the party and run into the milkman, they pause a moment to talk with him. I believe they're both in their car at the time, it's night, and you can see a light fixture on the building behind them. This light fixture pulses and flickers throughout the scene, as if viewed through a layer of slightly moving water. Close inspection makes it look as if the scan lines are slightly out of sync (or the interlaced frames, rather), causing a pulsing or strobing visual effect from a normal viewing distance. I see it throughout the film, but this bright on dark instance might be one of the easiest to readily identify.

The motion blur is easiest to spot in faces (fast movement causes blur of facial detail, particularly at a distance, and fast movement in this case would mean anyone turning their head, walking either left or right without the camera tracking or panning to follow, etc.), but patterns on jackets and other clothing, etc. are also good indicators. Again, the motion blur here is much worse than what I've seen on the MK2 The Gold Rush and the clips of the other Chaplin releases contained thereon.

The disc itself is spotless, and I purchased it at a B&M (Best Buy). That Topper Returns looks just fine, but Topper reveals these issues, makes me think it's a mastering, and not a pressing, issue. I'm inclined to believe that even if it were a pressing issue, the classic status of the titles would keep Artisan from going to the expense and trouble of fixing the problem, but I'd love to be proven wrong about that.

I'm inclined to blame it all on a very bad PAL-NTSC conversion (I believe you're right, Mark). Some folks with very high end displays still don't see anything wrong with the Chaplins, though. I think that watching a problem B&W transfer such as Topper (if the problem is indeed on all discs, and not just a few bad ones) side by side with an exemplary B&W disc (such as WB's The Thin Man, or even better Columbia's Only Angels Have Wings and His Girl Friday, which are great for comparison in that they also feature Cary Grant and were also made in the 30's) might best illustrate the trouble.

I'd love to get to the bottom of this, first because I love Topper and wish it looked better, but most importantly for what it may bode for the L&H discs hitting stores in the near future. I think the motion blur would persist regardless of playback parameters, but if the flicker is strictly a problem that crops up on interlaced displays (perhaps a PAL conversion anomaly confined to interlace technology?), that too would be great information to have at hand. I don't see any flicker at all in the Chaplins, which makes me think it's a glitch of conversion which can be remedied with greater care, even if a conversion is itself used. There also remains the possibility that this flicker is an encoding error unrelated to a PAL-NTSC conversion -- again, as I'm not intimately familiar with the technology involved, I just can't say with certainty.

My thanks to all for their feedback.