American Graffiti Blu-ray DNR issues? (1 Viewer)

[Kevin EK]

I agree that the thread title is a bit over the top - but if that's the way Scott feels about it, it's his opinion.

It's not an official HTF review, so I would hope that if anything, it would just raise awareness about the release, and people could make up their own minds after seeing it.

 

[Douglas Monce]

I don't think the film looks horrible in the screen caps at all.
Having said that, the whole process of capturing at 1080, resizing to 720, then compressing for the web is problematic at best. The potential to introduce all kinds of artifacts is just way too high.
Doug

 

[Jarod M]

Originally Posted by Kevin EK
I note that the Blu-ray.com review discusses the edge enhancement, but also says that this is the best the film has ever looked on home video.

How many Blu-rays have not been the best the movie has ever looked on home video?

 

[Scott Calvert]

Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
I don't think the film looks horrible in the screen caps at all.
Having said that, the whole process of capturing at 1080, resizing to 720, then compressing for the web is problematic at best. The potential to introduce all kinds of artifacts is just way too high.
Doug

The caps I have seen, all 20 of them, were 1080. JPEG compression is not a big deal, each image used minimal compression. There is no mosquito noise. The caps look like your typical Universal transfer, of which I have seen many. If it's a new transfer it's a terrible one.

Anyone saying those caps look wonderful isn't looking at the 1080 caps. They are looking a 720 caps resized by their browser to fit within and small computer monitor. Even then, I question how they would come to the conclusion they look anywhere close wonderful.

 

[Brian Borst]

Originally Posted by Jarod M
How many Blu-rays have not been the best the movie has ever looked on home video?

I'm a bit bothered by that statement too. The Blu-ray of Patton looks better than the DVD. Every single Blu-ray does. That's why I think "being better than the DVD" isn't really a good standard. Being film like is the number one prerogative, and I have to say, basing it solely off the screen shots, American Graffiti looks like another old master with edge enhancement.

 

[Scott Calvert]

Originally Posted by Brian Borst

I'm a bit bothered by that statement too. The Blu-ray of Patton looks better than the DVD. Every single Blu-ray does. That's why I think "being better than the DVD" isn't really a good standard. Being film like is the number one prerogative, and I have to say, basing it solely off the screen shots, American Graffiti looks like another old master with edge enhancement.

I just watched The Horse Soldiers which has a fantastic transfer that looks exactly like a 35mm print, yet people in several forums are talking like it's some kind of big dissapointment. These Graffiti caps look absolutely awful with thick haloes and undefined "grain" blobs everywhere, and everyone comes to the defense. It's dishearterning to say the least.

 

[Douglas Monce]

 

The caps I have seen, all 20 of them, were 1080. JPEG compression is not a big deal, each image used minimal compression. There is no mosquito noise. The caps look like your typical Universal transfer, of which I have seen many. If it's a new transfer it's a terrible one. Anyone saying those caps look wonderful isn't looking at the 1080 caps. They are looking a 720 caps resized by their browser to fit within and small computer monitor. Even then, I question how they would come to the conclusion they look anywhere close wonderful. 

The screen caps at the link provided in this thread at bluray.com are 720p and are stated as such at the bottom of each one. If you are seeing 1080p screen caps some place else please provide a link.Doug

 

[Robert Crawford]

Originally Posted by Brian Borst

I'm a bit bothered by that statement too. The Blu-ray of Patton looks better than the DVD. Every single Blu-ray does. That's why I think "being better than the DVD" isn't really a good standard. Being film like is the number one prerogative, and I have to say, basing it solely off the screen shots, American Graffiti looks like another old master with edge enhancement.

It's not a good standard for the studios releasing these BRDs nor for those of us that offer no compromise when it comes to these films looking the best they can be in their personal home theaters. However, there is a significant segment of consumers that do offer some type of compromise to their standards based on the individual titles or simply their lack of certain knowledge. In short, for the consumer it's a personal choice as it's their monies being spent on a case by case basis. However, when it comes to the studios, I would hope the studios have a certain level of pride about their production standards, but I do realize that in some cases, that the old business mantra of running a business is going to turn it's ugly head and muddy up the waters of high quality output at all times.

 

[Scott Calvert]

The screen caps at the link provided in this thread at bluray.com are 720p and are stated as such at the bottom of each one. If you are seeing 1080p screen caps some place else please provide a link.
Doug

I believe you have to be a member and choose 1080p settings in your profile. Sorry, I didn't remember that was a requirement.

 

[Douglas Monce]

 

I believe you have to be a member and choose 1080p settings in your profile. Sorry, I didn't remember that was a requirement. 

Oh got ya. I have no particular interest in joining bluray.com so I'll just wait for the release.Doug

 

[TravisR]

These Graffiti caps look absolutely awful with thick haloes and undefined "grain" blobs everywhere, and everyone comes to the defense. It's dishearterning to say the least.

I haven't seen anyone come to the defense of the disc that very well could be lousy. However, you've made a decision, based solely on screenshots, that a disc "looks terrible" and is "garbage".

 

[Scott Calvert]

There's a difference between coming to the defense of the disc that could be lousy and making a decision, based solely on screenshots, that a disc "looks terrible" and is "garbage".

Based on 1080p screenshots with judious compression.

1080p screenshots for The Bridge On The River Kwai, Close Encounters, Taxi Driver, The Evil Dead, Saving Private Ryan, AI, War Of The Worlds, Raging Bull, Fiddler On The Roof, The Godfather, Rocky Horror, All About Eve, An Affair To Remember, Network, Jason and the Argonauts, The Manchurian Candidate, Invasion Of The Body Snatchers, The Robe, Rob Roy, etc etc etc ALL look like their BD counterparts and they look great.

1080p screenshots for 8 1/2, Kagemusha, The Leopard, True Grit, Back To The Future, Hamlet, Patton, The Longest Day, The Greatest Story Ever Told ALL look like their BD counterparts and they all look bad.

I think there just might be a correlation here.

I'll edit to add that these AG caps look like caps for Criterion blurays that were minted from their early 00's HD transfers they made on their spirit datacine. They look almost exactly like the caps for Criterions lackluster Kagemusha and 8 1/2 BDs.

 

[Kevin EK]

I'll have to disagree with that Back to the Future comparison there. We discussed that at length in this forum, including input by Robert Harris. The BTTF Blus did not look "bad" by any means, but this did not stop a torrent of discussion about how they must be terrible based on posted screencaps.

As we have now discussed repeatedly here, a still frame does not correlate to a moving image. Looking at screencaps does not, unfortunately, provide all the information one would need to make a fully informed judgment.

Scott, the only issue people are having with your statements is the use of the words "terrible" and "garbage", particularly in the title of the thread. I totally understand that you have a strong opinion, and you're absolutely entitled to express it. Please understand that other people may either disagree with that assessment or be taken a bit aback by the vehemence of the statement.

My point about the Blu-ray review comments was to note that the reviewer did not in fact say that this was a terrible transfer. He said he had issues with edge enhancement, for which he took a point off his score. But he didn't assign a score of zero, either. He gave it a good score, but said it could have been better if not for the EE. After that, he said the movie had never looked better.

And there certainly are Blu-rays that have lower quality picture than their DVD counterparts. Just compare the Universal Blu-ray of Spartacus with the Criterion SD DVD. The Criterion is much better. Or compare the Studio Canal Blu of The Third Man with the Criterion SD DVD. Same result. It really is possible to mess up a transfer in a significant way - and for this reason, I tend to reserve my brickbats for when I truly feel they've been earned.

Again, when I'm back in Los Angeles in the early part of the week, I'll go through the AG Blu, and we'll get into the appropriate discussions. I just don't want to jump to conclusions before I've been able to ascertain whether there is any fire within the smoke.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Kevin,

I seriously doubt there is going to be some kind of resolution regarding the difference of opinions as it pertains to certain blu-rays. Unless, we are all watching these discs on the same exact HT equipment and maybe even with the same eyes and technical knowledge, there are going to be disagreements. I've accepted Scott's opinion, however, I don't agree with it until I view the disc and I might not agree with it even then.





Crawdaddy

 

[Kevin EK]

I agree Robert. I think we're all on the same page here.

The one thing we can all thankfully agree on is that we can appreciate when we see a good movie presented well. I always hope for this to be the case.

 

[nealg]

I caught AG on HDNET about a year ago and I thought it looked amazing. I wasn't looking for EE or DNR at the time, and couldn't speak to that now. All I know is that a beautiful, film-like HD master does exist...somewhere.

It was the first time I had ever seen it. My wife and I really loved it, and it got me all excited in anticipation of a blu-ray release. I guess we'll see.

 

[Brandon Conway]

Now 8 1/2 and Kagemusha look terrible, LOL. Good grief, they look just fine.

 

[Derrick King]

It is funny Scott mentions Criterion's 8 1/2 Blu-ray being from the same master as their DVD because it isn't:

The Criterion Collection We are evaluating each master on a case by case basis. In most cases our Blu-ray masters have been based on the HD transfers we have done for DVD, but all have required additional restoration. In the case of 8 1/2, however, this is a new scan from the original materials.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Oh got ya. I have no particular interest in joining bluray.com so I'll just wait for the release.

Doug, thank you for your loyalty.

 

[Scott Calvert]

Blu-ray being from the same master as their DVD because it isn't:

If it isn't the same master it might as well be. Have you watched it?

1080p caps for 8 1/2
http://images.blu-ray.com/reviews/2258_13_1080p.jpg
http://images.blu-ray.com/reviews/2258_19_1080p.jpg
http://images.blu-ray.com/reviews/2258_17_1080p.jpg

1080p caps for Kagemusha
http://images.blu-ray.com/reviews/1670_4_1080p.jpg
http://images.blu-ray.com/reviews/1670_6_1080p.jpg
http://images.blu-ray.com/reviews/1670_10_1080p.jpg

1080p caps for American Graffiti
http://images.blu-ray.com/reviews/4255_1_1080p.jpg
http://images.blu-ray.com/reviews/4255_3_1080p.jpg
http://images.blu-ray.com/reviews/4255_5_1080p.jpg