Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD) (1 Viewer)

[Chuck Mayer]

Well, the decision was made for me.

The Pioneer 92 was on sale for $800 this week at Tweeter. While I was looking at the next tier up (Denon 3808, Pioneer 94, Onkyo 875/905), I couldn't turn down that deal. The 92 has all of the features I require, and almost all of those I wanted. Pioneer also kept having good reports for audio, with few problems. Set-up took some time, and I have yet to actually tweak anything. But the cables are plugged in, and I can start playing soon. Haven't set a AVR up in 10 years, so should be an adventure.

 

[gene c]

Glad to see someone around here can make a decision! Some of us seem to take for ever to make up our minds, myself included. $800 is a very good price. Lowest I saw when I was looking a couple of months ago from an authorized dealer was around $920. I hope you'll report back in a while with your opinion of what's good and what isn't (nothing's perfect). Until then, enjoy your new avr.

 

[gebby44]

Great choice on the Pioneer, Chuck. I still have my Pioneer VSX-82 in the bedroom system, and it has never let me down. The audio capabilities of the Pioneers are just about equal to the Denon and Yamaha and only bested by the Marantz's. I think you'll find, like me, that the Pioneer's are a great mixture of audio and video capabilities. Not the best in both, but arguably the best mix of both features. The Stream Direct for music sounds incredible with good sources (as an unprocessed signal should). Have fun setting it up (advanced MCACC can be fun)!

Cheers,
Ryan

 

[Chuck Mayer]

My room wasn't optimal on set-up with the MCACC. I'll be doing it again. but it went off without a hitch. I've only watched a bit of Kingdom of Heaven, and learned something irritating about the X360 (it appears it WON'T send DD5.1 over the HDMI, just video). The Pioneer sounds pretty smooth so far, although it's replacing a very competent Yamaha DSP-A1. I've heard good things about audio performance, which is the most important thing for me. As I said earlier, it rarely rated as high as some of the others, but it also had the fewest "detractors" of any of my options.

I'll keep everyone posted once I get to really play with it.

 

[Dave Moritz]

One of the things that I took into consideration when choosing receivers was this thread in another a/v site. It is basically an thread intitled "Does your receiver pass HDMI video unmodified?


Does your receiver pass HDMI video unmodified? - AVS Forum


Now in part of the thread it brings up that Yamaha does not pass video unmodified via HDMI. That It seems only Yamaha currently limit their HDMI inputs to levels 16-235, and that there receivers clip blacker than black and whiter than white. So basically if an HD title is authored with blacks deeper than 16 or whites higher than 135. That the receiver will clip those input levels. Maybe I am being to picky but one thing is for certain is that if a reciever clips those input levels, than you will not be able to use a blacker than black test pattern to calibrate your display. And that you would not be able to use a full range signals using a game console or pc without crushing blacks or whites. Maybe I am being to picky but I just want to get the highest performance I can get so in return I would be able to have the best picutre that my gear can provide.

While it says that the Sony STR-DA4300ES passes blacker than black. There are to many reasons not to want a Sony receiver, at least as far as I am concerned. I bought a Sony ES DVD player, Sony Blu-ray and a Sony HDTV and I have been very happy with them. But I have yet to hear a Sony recevier that I have ever been impressed with.

The Onkyo TX-SR805 is said to pass blacker than black as does the Pioneer VSX-92THX/94THX, Denon AVR-3808CI and the Marantz SR8002. Now it is speculated that some of the other top models for the same brands also pass blacker than black as well. But I guess that even though the Yamaha RX-V1800/V3800/HTR-6190 and RX-Z11 did not pass the RX-V661 did pass.

While I currently own a 10+ year old Yamaha and while it has performed very well. I have enough reason to not want to buy another one and the lower models with the scene buttons, I really hate the way the look and that most of them do not meet my power output requirement and also does not decode lossless dts & dolby.

The Yamaha's I was looking at seemed to have failed passing blacker than black. And that the Yamaha's seem to fall way short of there advertised power output. And I am not sold on there new room correction feature. And to be honest I never was big on Yamaha's DSP modes and never cared to use them. I always ended up watching movies without the specialized DSP modes. But other than that the receiver has worked out great and sounds good.

Yamaha 1800
Advertised Power
Sound & Vision Bench Test
Output at clipping (1 kHz into 8/4 ohms)
1 channel driven: 158/281 W (22/24.5 dBW)*
5 channels driven (8 ohms): 103 W (20.1 dBW)
7 channels driven (8 ohms): 55 W (17.4 dBW)

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/rec...-receiver.html

I am going to take a break from the constant research but would still love to get input. Maybe I am being to picky but I will end up with the best possible choice in my price range. The primary goal is to get a receiver with a max of $2,400 if possible. If not then the second goal is to get a receiver costing no more than $1,200. It really sucks being on a budget and there is a chance that I will be lucky to get the lower rung receiver, not that there is anything wrong with that.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Dave,

I really don't understand though. If your budget for this really tops out at $2.4K, why not consider the Integra 9.8 preamp to go w/ a used power amp? Seems like that's quite doable for

 

[Jari K]

With this (more higher, IMO) price range, you should have plenty of options. IMO, it gets easier to pick that receiver with 1t$=> price range. You´ve enough HDMI inputs, enough power (IMO, at least), good features, good upscaling (varies, though), HDMI 1.3, etc. But yes, Onkyo might "get hot", Yamaha has some "clipping", XX-receiver doesn´t have "enough power" for everyone, etc etc. IMO; there´s always something. You probably can´t find that "perfect receiver". And - new models are coming all the time. Perhaps I also made a slight mistake and new Yamaha-models suddenly will be better (they probably fix the clipping, perhaps).. Who knows?

 

[gene c]

Gary Altunian gave a glowing review of the 3800 in the latest addition of Widescreen Review (man, these guys move around). I knew about this BTB thing but video wasn't such a concern for me. My biggest complaint with the 3800 was that it used Burr-Brown dacs on the front two channels only. Probably not a real world issue but I just couldn't get passed it. Love my 6770 dvd player, though.

 

[Jari K]

Like I said earlier, v1800 and v3800 are very similar, and I didn´t want to spend additional 400$ (or so) for these additional USB/ethernet/internet radio-features (and to get slightly more power).


Now you lost me Gene. What´s actually "Burr-Brown dacs on the front two channels only". Sorry!

 

[gene c]

Digital to Analog Converters. Burr-Brown (by Texas Instruments) are thought to be one of the better ones. Wolfson and Motorola are two more I'm familiar with (and maybe even better than Burr-Brown) but I'm sure there are others. Onkyo uses the Burr-Browns in the 805/875/905 but for all channels. Yamaha only uses them in the front two. The other channels must use something else. Again, probably not a big deal but sometimes I stress over the small things.

 

[Dave Moritz]

I have always wanted a true high end system or at least very close to high end. I have always wanted the best audio performance and video performance I could possible afford. I had started this goal in the mid 90's and it stoped after getting married. After that end I am now trying to restart from scratch as I had lost some key gear from that HT configuration.

This was the base system that I starting upgrading and the first peice of gear to be upgraded was a Denon preamp/tuner/surround processor. That was upgraded to a McItosh MX-130 which was one of the best a/v gear I have ever owned, I wished I still owned it.

HT back in 1996:




I know that in todays world that there is no such thing as a prefect receiver, bluray player, dvd player, pc etc..... The days of bringing home the newest peice of gear and it working with everything else and there being 0 problems and 0 compatibility issues are over. In the old days before multi-channel surround sound when it was just plain old stereo. You would just buy something hook it up and it would ether have great audio performance or it wouldn't.


I would like to get something that would get as close as possible to what I had with the MX-130. The only reason I was able to get that was a friend let me use his credit card. My credit is really bad after my devorce so I do what I can to build the best HT that I can.


Here is my end goal for my HT which I feel is obtainable.
-Upgrade current Yamaha RX-V995 to a higher end receiver or pre/pro amp combination.
-Upgrade current Sony BDP-S300 to Panasonic BD30K or Denon DVD-2500CI
-Possible upgrade of Toshiba HD-A1 to a HD-A35 even though HD-DVD is close to disapearing.
-Upgrade current 720p native Sony Wega 50" HDTV (accepts 1080i). To a native 1080p / 24 fps 120Hz display with HDMI 1.3 input. I am leaning towards a Samsung, Sony or Mitsubishi display currently but this can change once I am ready to save for it. The ultimate upgrade of this display would mean getting moved into a larger place and getting a really nice 1080p HD projector. And maybe a high quality outboard scaler if one would indead boost video quality but it may not be necisary.
-Altec Lancing VOTT A-7 Speakers (Main Channels L&R) Currently Owned
-Klipsch Reference Series RC-64 center channel - MSRP $899* (Each)
-Klipsch Reference Series RF-82 floorstanding speakers (Rear Channels, 4 speakers) MSRP $998* (Pair)
-SVS PB13-Ultra Subwoofer MSRP $1,599 (Each)

 

[John Dirk]

I took delivery of the Onkyo TX-SR805 Friday afternoon. As others have pointed out, this one's heavier than what you might expect. About 55 pounds I think, and it appears to be built like a tank. It was a snap to set up. The back panel was logically laid out. The best I've seen in any AVR to date. Speaker connections were all at the bottom stretched out horizontally, instead of the common vertical design, which makes them hard to work with IMO. I had it setup and running within a couple of hours, and that included setting up the Wal-Mart Blu Ray player I bought.

Since this is my first Onkyo product, the OSD took a little getting used to, but not much. Once I figured this out, I was able to quickly assign and rename inputs to my liking and it was time for speaker calibration.

I didn't care for Audyssey. The results were OK, but compared to Yamaha's YPAO, I thought it a bit lacking in features and extremely slow.

The only Blu Ray disc I currently own is Stargate, starring the completely resistable Kurt Russell. I like this film despite Mr Russell's presence, but it's not that great of a HDM transfer. Still, the Onkyo easily ran rings around my previous receiver, the Yamaha RX-V2500. In all fairness, the Yamaha is not of the same generation as the Onkyo, so direct comparisons are not really relevant. Still, I think it's safe to say that the Onkyo would easily trounce anything Yamaha has to offer in the 805's price range. The 1800 and 3800 were also on my short list, and so far, I think I made the right choice.

While video quality is lacking, the Stargate Blu Ray disc does have an impressive DTS HD Hi Res audio track. I didn't hear any popping while listening, or while switching sources. I verified my firmware version to be 1.08, which I believe is current. DSP firmware versions were also up to date, so I doubt I will experience any DTS problems.

Remote:

I use a Pronto Pro, so I am generally not concerned with individual product remotes, but I really like the remote that comes with this unit. Yes, it is quite large, but like the AVR itself, it is very logically designed. I have never understood why people knock remotes for being large. I would rather a larger remote that is actually easy to use than a smaller one that isn't. Just me. This remote is completely backlit. Functions are arranged in predictable patterns, and buttons are large enough to be comfortably pressed. I could actually see keeping this remote in use, at least for awhile until I have time to program its functions into my Pronto Pro.

Tiny Concerns:

1. The unit does get hot, but I ran it for well over 4 hours today [at fairly high levels] without incident. I've heard that you are supposed to be able to check the units temp via a secret menu, but when I tried, I got a display that read "T=65, V=.001, Fan:---" These values varied slightly, but the temp of the unit was clearly well above 65 degrees, so I'm not sure what this display actually means.

2. This receiver takes an awfully long time to switch sources. I would say at least 5 seconds before you'll have picture and sound. Not a huge issue for me, but I've never seen it before in any other unit and you would think Onkyo could do better. I have read, however, that this is more of a problem with HDMI than anything else. I don't know since this is my first HDMI switching product.

Overall impression:

This is easily the most feature rich AVR I have ever owned. I'm a tweaker, but even I haven't made it through all of the modes and adjustments on this baby yet. Sound is awesome. Completely fills my room. I knew the video side would be lacking, and that is fine. My projector can better handle those duties anyway. The level of control and "tweakability" is astounding for something in this price range.

My Yamaha RX-V2500 fetched a good price. Combine that with the rock bottom $600.00 price for this unit, and it's almost as if I got the Onkyo free. Almost.

Of course the true test will be performance and reliability over time.

We shall see how it measures up.

Thanks for reading.

John

 

[Autoengineer]

I keep reading about this heat concern with Onkyo's. I design electronics for automobiles and we run all our stuff in 105 degree C (220 degrees F) ambient temps. No problems. Now I'll admit, we do use automotive grade electronic components, but even the cheap radio shack parts are rated at +70 degree C temps which is like 158 degrees fahrenheit. How hot are these things getting? When we want to determine the robustness of a device we thermal shock it , meaning we quickly transition it back and forth between hot and cold temps. This will degrade the life of an electronic component much faster than just heat. Anyone actually have an Onkyo reciever that overheated or did some people wave their calibrated hands over the top of a couple of them and make a judgement that they run "too hot"?

 

[John Dirk]

Interesting information, and I bet the reading I got was actually the Celsius temperature [65]. Us Americans aren't used to seeing temp displayed that way. Based on my research, I was expecting to see both Celsius an Fahrenheit readings. I wonder if this can be changed. Anyway, there are numerous reports on the Internet of heat-related problems with the Onkyo models. The question is how much of this information is factual. I think you also raise a good point concerning the probable design of these units. Since they are expected to run hot, it would be foolish of Onkyo [and other manufacturers] not to design them accordingly.

John

 

[gene c]

I'm only a member at this forum but occasionally I do read other forums and I don't recall anyone reporting what they thought was a heat related shut down. I think people are concerned about longevity because Onkyo's seem to run much hotter than other brands. Whether they run too hot is for a qualified engineer to say .