A Few Words About A few words about...™ Star Wars: The Last Jedi -- in 4k UHD Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[Blimpoy06]

One of the biggest complaints I have heard is that TLJ is that there are too many funny moments in it. I wonder if the fans complaining remember "A New Hope"? nearly every time Luke, Leia, and Han are around together there are many funny one liners/dialogue, and that isn't even including R2, and 3PO which are also very funny.

I watched the film for the first time last night. It's not that the film is funny, but TRYING to be funny. And it's not.


The film is one of the most poorly constructed and assembled messes I've ever seen a major studio release to the general public. Fan produced films flow better than this. Characters spend too much time standing over cliffs and posing for poster shots while spewing out badly written dialogue on how they were betrayed by their parents or mentor. I hope Rian Johnson is seeking help for whatever parental issues he is having. The message of the film seems to be that the older ways and generations are bad and need to be removed for the young to continue with their work.

There is a reliance on the Force to be an expedient means to advance the plot even if it has properties never shown or discussed in previous films. There is no realistic sense of time and space in the film. Multiple events take place at supposed far ends of the galaxy simultaneously, but everyone is able to return to the Rebel fleet at about the same time. And why is the Rebel fleet running out of fuel, causing ships to fall behind? Unless they are constantly accelerating while fleeing, they should maintain their speed. An object in motion tends to stay in motion. The fleet shouldn't need to burn any fuel once maximum speed of the ships is obtained. Unless they change course. And dialogue says they don't.

How are shuttles able to leave the fleet, travel across the galaxy, and return while burning less fuel than the capital ships? If you can cloak ships, why not use that when attacking during the bombing run? Why does the Empire come out of light speed too far away to effectively fire on the Rebel fleet? Or have ships in different positions to allow cross fire and prevent escape?

I really think this was a big FU to older fans of the franchise. While not a passionate one myself, I can see where much of the backlash is warranted from those who are.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I'm an older fan of the franchise and I didn't take this as any kind of FU. I actually liked this film quite a bit with my 5th viewing of it today.

 

[Tino]

I also think the Atmos track is low and a bit underwhelming. Surprised and somewhat disappointed.

 

[TravisR]

I loved Luke’s portrayal. Fans wanted him swashbuckling around like he was still 25.
[/SPOILER]

Yes, some fans- whether they realize it or not- want the original movies just with the actors at an older age. Ironically, the biggest complaint about The Force Awakens was that it was too much like the original movies and then this movie actually did something different and they still complained.

Before some gets pissed, I'm not saying that everyone that didn't like the movie feels that way but there is definitely a contingent of fans that do.

One of the biggest complaints I have heard is that TLJ is that there are too many funny moments in it. I wonder if the fans complaining remember "A New Hope"? nearly every time Luke, Leia, and Han are around together there are many funny one liners/dialogue, and that isn't even including R2, and 3PO which are also very funny.

Yep. However, I will say that the humor is very 'Earth'. Poe saying "about his mother" is funny and worth the joke but it's not really a joke that I'd expect to hear in a galaxy far, far away.

 

[Worth]

I'm an older fan of the franchise and I didn't take this as any kind of FU. I actually liked this film quite a bit with my 5th viewing of it today.

Likewise. I think the film has its fair share of flaws, but overall I liked it better than Force Awakens. I was 8 when the original came out and 14 when Return of the Jedi was released, so I was the absolute ideal age for those films. Thought the prequels were awful, though. I've enjoyed the post-Lucas films, but feel they've all had their weak spots.

 

[Scott Merryfield]

We watched this film for the first time last night -- rented it on Amazon using some rental credits (we never got around to seeing it in the theater). I thought the film was "just okay". Too much of it seemed like what we'd seen before in previous episodes -- the final scene with Supreme Leader Snoke, Luke becoming Rey's Yoda on a remote world (this time for "get your Jedi degree in a hurry" lessons), Luke then doing an Obi Wan impression, even bringing back those walker weapons (haven't weapons advanced in all those years?). The casino scene was a rehash of the old cantina scene, and really had nothing to do with advancing the plot.

Despite all that, my wife and I found the film entertaining, but nothing special like the original trilogy. I'm certainly glad I didn't spend $28 on the UHD discs. If the price drops substantially (it's Disney, so it won't happen soon), I'll probably pick it up. However, I'm in no hurry to see the film again.

 

[TravisR]

even bringing back those walker weapons (haven't weapons advanced in all those years?).

[NERD]The walkers are different in this one. They're AT-M6s which are much larger and have different front legs than the AT-ATs in The Empire Strikes Back and Return Of The Jedi. Although there are some AT-ATs mixed in with the AT-M6s too. They're small but they're in there.[/NERD]

 

[Carlo_M]

Luke becoming Rey's Yoda on a remote world (this time for "get your Jedi degree in a hurry" lessons)

It's interesting how people can interpret the same scenes differently. From the very first viewing for me (I've seen it twice in the theater and now once at home), I thought the Luke/Rey dynamic was the opposite of Yoda/Luke. Rey went to Luke seeking a Yoda and got the opposite. A stark refusal and what little he did do was more to discover how already strong she was in the force. Very little of the "how to harness, control" etc. that Yoda did.

And when watching the documentary, it seems Johnson wanted it to be viewed that way. Hamill's main bone of contention was that Luke was the opposite of what he thought Luke was going to be.

I think for something like Star Wars, with a dedicated fanbase that now spans decades, all new films are like Rorschach tests. We take out of scenes what we take into it (kind of like Luke and the cave in tESB).

 

[Scott Merryfield]

It's interesting how people can interpret the same scenes differently. From the very first viewing for me (I've seen it twice in the theater and now once at home), I thought the Luke/Rey dynamic was the opposite of Yoda/Luke. Rey went to Luke seeking a Yoda and got the opposite. A stark refusal and what little he did do was more to discover how already strong she was in the force. Very little of the "how to harness, control" etc. that Yoda did.

Yes, I realize Luke was the reluctant tutor, but he did agree to give her three lessons... hence my "speedy Jedi degree" comment in jest.

Oh, and wookies mustn't age, 'cause Chewbacca appears to be the same as he was in the original trilogy, while Luke and Leia (and Han in the last film) grew old.

 

[Johnny Angell]

Oh, and wookies mustn't age, 'cause Chewbacca appears to be the same as he was in the original trilogy, while Luke and Leia (and Han in the last film) grew old.

All that fur hides a lot of flaws. Shave him and he’d look like a raisin.

 

[Carlo_M]

I guess the difference in viewpoint for me Scott is that he was barely a tutor at all (reluctant or willing). That’s why to me it’s the opposite of Yoda. Yoda himself was reluctant “he is too old” “will he finish what he starts” “always looking to the future...never on where he was, what he was doing” etc.

Luke had a fundamental view that the Jedi order was rooted in failure and needed to end. He didn’t come around from that view until Rey left to help her friends (likely echoing his own actions in his mind when he left Yoda to help Han and Leia).

 

[Scott Merryfield]

All that fur hides a lot of flaws. Shave him and he’d look like a raisin.

...or Disney tried to save a few bucks and re-use an old costume.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

I guess the difference in viewpoint for me Scott is that he was barely a tutor at all (reluctant or willing). That’s why to me it’s the opposite of Yoda. Yoda himself was reluctant “he is too old” “will he finish what he starts” “always looking to the future...never on where he was, what he was doing” etc.

Luke had a fundamental view that the Jedi order was rooted in failure and needed to end. He didn’t come around from that view until Rey left to help her friends (likely echoing his own actions in his mind when he left Yoda to help Han and Leia).

This is why I'm almost positive Abrams will bring Luke back as a Force ghost.

 

[Scott Merryfield]

I guess the difference in viewpoint for me Scott is that he was barely a tutor at all (reluctant or willing). That’s why to me it’s the opposite of Yoda. Yoda himself was reluctant “he is too old” “will he finish what he starts” “always looking to the future...never on where he was, what he was doing” etc.

Luke had a fundamental view that the Jedi order was rooted in failure and needed to end. He didn’t come around from that view until Rey left to help her friends (likely echoing his own actions in his mind when he left Yoda to help Han and Leia).

I agree there are differences, Carlo, but to me the basic story/plot ideas are just too similar.

Spoiler

Oh, look, Rey's going to a remote planet to get trained, just like Luke in ESB. Oh, look, Rey and Kylo Ren are fighting in front of the Supreme Commander in a nearly identical scene as Luke, Vader and the Emperor -- and the head dude gets killed again. Oh, look, Luke is sacrificing himself and vanishing as he dies, just like Obi Wan. Oh, look, a casino scene like the old cantina scene. Oh, look, the walker weapons are back. Oh, look, the Rebels need to escape from a planet similar to that ice planet from ESB

I just would have liked to see some more original story ideas, instead of re-using the old ones.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

George Lucas introduced deliberate parallels when he made the prequels, so I felt like the sequel trilogy is just mirroring that.

The Force Awakens took it a little too far into remake territory for my tastes. But I thought Johnson deployed the parallels in interesting ways like Lucas did, relying on our memories of the prior movies to color our interpretation of events in interesting ways. Often, by setting up a familiar scenario and then having it play out to a markedly different result.

Especially when you consider each trilogy in the context of Joseph Campbell's hero's journey: The first film is Departure, in which the hero leaves behind an ordinary life to embark on the adventure; the second film is Initiation, in which the hero starts to become transformed by the adventure; and then the third film is Return, in which the transformed hero must return to the world that was left behind.

The subversive thing about the prequel trilogy is that while Anakin's arc fulfills the formal arc, his transformation is from innocent to villain. The subversive thing about the sequel trilogy is that the mentor has no interest in mentoring.

 

[TravisR]

Oh, and wookies mustn't age, 'cause Chewbacca appears to be the same as he was in the original trilogy, while Luke and Leia (and Han in the last film) grew old.

[NERD]It's a George Lucas thing that Wookiees are very long lived. Chewbacca is about 200 years old in the original movie so he's about 230 in The Last Jedi and he's still not particularly old for a Wookiee.[/NERD] The ridiculous thing is that this and my previous post aren't even remotely the geekiest bit of Star Wars facts that I have used at HTF.

 

[Carlo_M]

I viewed TFA as a near remake of the original (though I still enjoyed it). I see TLJ as a subversion of many of the elements of the original three. The prequels to me don’t exist

 

[Colin Jacobson]

I viewed TFA as a near remake of the original (though I still enjoyed it). I see TLJ as a subversion of many of the elements of the original three. The prequels to me don’t exist

I honestly think the "'TFA' = remake" claims are really overstated - and it's easy to view "TLJ" as a semi-remake of "Empire" with some "ROTJ" tossed in as well...

 

[Carlo_M]

One more thing I am thinking of with regards to this title in particular in terms of A/V quality. A great 4K UHD presentation at home can now best a mediocre (or worse) theatrical setup.

I saw TLJ twice in the theaters. Both were digital projections (obviously since very few show film projection anymore). Once in Century City at an AMC and once in Irvine at an Edwards. The AMC had tremendous black levels and shadow detail. When I saw it in Irvine, the blacks were not as dark, and there was a lot of lost detail in shadow. I'm usually very cognizant of these things when watching movies, but since I saw the two showings several weeks apart, I wondered if I was misremembering (I saw the Edwards sub-par showing second).

Now viewing TLJ at home in 4K HDR10 with a Sony 900E with FALD, I see that the blacks are indeed black (or as good as this TV can do, not being OLED), and I see plenty of shadow detail. So I can definitively say I prefer my home setup to the Edwards theater in Irvine.

Thank goodness I live much closer to the AMC in Century City as that digital projection system is superior to the Edwards in Irvine.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

That's been my experience as well in recent years comparing theatrical vs. home viewings. I think my local IMAX theaters (both the xenon digital and laser installations) do phenomenal presentations nearly every time. I think my local Dolby Cinema auditorium has great projection that is somewhat marred by poor design choices in the room. And some of the so-called premium large format auditoriums, like Regal's RPX, can range from pretty decent to pretty good. But for a standard digital 2D admission, or a standard RealD 3D admission, I think it's a crapshoot for what I'm going to get.

I very rarely see movies in theaters a second time now, whereas I used to do that a lot in the past. Between the declining presentation standards and the shrinking theatrical to home video window, I'm finding it doesn't pay to see a movie a second time in a presentation that may not be great, when I can see it at home with just a short wait.

The Last Jedi was one of only two films that I saw more than once in theaters last year, and that was because it stuck around in IMAX long enough for me to be able to get the same high quality presentation both times. But even though I would have been happy to see the movie even more times, after seeing a perfect IMAX 3D presentation, I didn't want to see it in a standard 2D or RealD 3D presentation after it had vacated IMAX. It wasn't worth spending the money to see a presentation where I knew it would be inferior to how I originally saw it.

If you have the time, I think it may be worth writing a letter to the Edwards chain (maybe the local brand, or to the company's CEO) and tell them just what you posted here - that in comparing their presentation of The Last Jedi to the one you got at home, it looked better at home. Theaters need to start caring more about presentation quality or I think the general audience is going to stop coming out. I don't think the average theatergoer necessarily recognizes things like poor blacks and lack of shadow detail on a conscious level, but I think cumulatively they start noticing that going to the movies doesn't seem as magical as it once did, while noticing that watching a movie at home looks better than ever.