A few words about…™ Star Wars: The Last Jedi — in 4k UHD Blu-ray

Regardless of whether one currently can play the discs in 4k, that's the version to add to one's library, staying future proof. 4 Stars

Those Star Wars films just keep on comin’! Especially, now with Disney at the wheel.

The nice thing is that Last Jedi, from Rian Johnson, is a quality effort.

One either loves the Star Wars universe, or probably couldn’t care less. I find myself somewhere in the middle. How many ways can one stage a battle in space?

Here we have women in the pilot’s seats, and like anyone in the military is aware, no pilot goes anywhere, especially into battle without proper lip colorings.

That noted, this one does work. It’s a huge affair, that lands beautifully within the series canon.

A major attribute is that The Last Jedi arrives in 4k, from large format data files, and it’s a stunner.

Hopefully, whether via game platforms or with a new 4k player, The Last Jedi will give 4k another uptick in popularity.

Regardless of whether one currently can play the discs in 4k, that’s the version to add to one’s library, staying future proof.

Audio in Dolby Atmos is huge, proscenium filling, and state of the art.

Image – 5

Audio – 5 (Dolby Atmos)

Pass / Fail – Pass

Highly Recommended

RAH

Published by

Kevin Collins

administrator

112 Comments

  1. atcolomb

    I did read somewhere about Mark Hamill not being happy about the script and the way his character was handled in the movie.

    That was a quote that was taken out of context by the fans who didn't like the movie as some kind of proof that it was bad and that everyone else should cry about it as much as they continue to do.

  2. Disney would have to pay me to put this film in my collection. I saw the commercial for the Blu release tonight and it just reinforces how terrible the film was, although I have no doubt the presentation on disc will be of high quality.

  3. I enjoyed the film and will be happy to add it to my collection. I saw it twice in the theater and the second time made me appreciate it more (though I did enjoy it on the first viewing). Yes, there are things I don't like about it, but overall, it's good. I believe it will be appreciated much more as time passes.

  4. TravisR

    That was a quote that was taken out of context by the fans who didn't like the movie as some kind of proof that it was bad and that everyone else should cry about it as much as they continue to do.

    Mark Hamill did not like the direction of Luke in TLJ, and said so in an interview. It wasn't a dig at the movie(which he thought was great) just his own idea of where the character should have gone.
    Later he apologized for making the statement.

    http://variety.com/2017/film/news/m…-johnson-luke-skywalker-last-jedi-1202648884/

    I wish actors would not do this, I'm still hurt by Harrison Ford hating on Han Solo calling him "dumb"….and that was in the OT I mean, it's Han Solo, how can he not be pleased with that character?

  5. Bryan^H

    Mark Hamill did not like the direction of Luke in TLJ, and said so in an interview. It wasn't a dig at the movie(which he thought was great) just his own idea of where the character should have gone.
    Later he apologized for making the statement.

    http://variety.com/2017/film/news/m…-johnson-luke-skywalker-last-jedi-1202648884/

    Yes, he disagreed with the direction early on but some fans have cherry picked Hamill's "He's not my Luke Skywalker" line from an interview and present it as 'evidence' that the movie is bad while also deliberately not acknowledging the other overwhelmingly positive comments that he has said about the movie. Acting as if #notmyLukeSkywalker is Hamill's final word on the movie is just disingenuous on the part of those people.

    I wish actors would not do this, I'm still hurt by Harrison Ford hating on Han Solo calling him "dumb"….and that was in the OT I mean, it's Han Solo, how can he not be pleased with that character?

    I wouldn't call Han dumb either. He's not a genius and he's playing alot of situations by ear but Han's definitely got street smarts.

  6. TravisR

    Yes, he disagreed with the direction early on but some fans have cherry picked Hamill's "He's not my Luke Skywalker" line from an interview and present it as 'evidence' that the movie is bad while also deliberately not acknowledging the other overwhelmingly positive comments that he has said about the movie. Acting as if #notmyLukeSkywalker is Hamill's final word on the movie is just disingenuous on the part of those people.

    Yeah, that is sort of sad. Anyone that needs "evidence" to prove to other people that a movie is bad….well I feel bad for them.
    Let people make up their own mind what they like, or not.

  7. Just got my Target "your order is ready for pickup" email. Gonna swing by the store on my walk in to work. Then 8 hours of terrible waiting as I have this 4K disc in my possession but won't be able to watch it. This is going to be one of the slowest work days in recent memory…

  8. Carlo Medina

    Just got my Target "your order is ready for pickup" email. Gonna swing by the store on my walk in to work. Then 8 hours of terrible waiting as I have this 4K disc in my possession but won't be able to watch it. This is going to be one of the slowest work days in recent memory…

    I used the same method and just got back from Target with my 4K prize that I'll try to watch sometime this week.

  9. Saw this in the theater. The visuals were unbelievably good but some of the film felt a bit rushed. I still think the del Toro character was unnecessary as well as the whole venture to the casino resort. I also wasn't too keen on Skywalker's portrayal. It seemed to stray too far from his character development in the original films. I'm passing on picking up anymore Star Wars films. I'll see them in the theater but that's about it.

  10. There may be another thread for this topic. If there is let me know. I’m looking for a thread which compares the various versions of today’s TLJ release. Seems like Best Buy has a metal box. Target has a mini Art of TLJ book and a Porg featurette. Not sure what Amazon has if anything. I’m looking for a version which includes both a Blu Ray and DVD and as many extras (Trailers, Deleted Scenes, Behind the Scenes stuff, gag reel etc)
    Don’t need 3D or 4K or a Digital Copy. What does the collective recommend as the best option? Thanks! MTFBWY

  11. EdHoch

    There may be another thread for this topic. If there is let me know. I'm looking for a thread which compares the various versions of today's TLJ release. Seems like Best Buy has a metal box. Target has a mini Art of TLJ book and a Porg featurette. Not sure what Amazon has if anything. I'm looking for a version which includes both a Blu Ray and DVD and as many extras (Trailers, Deleted Scenes, Behind the Scenes stuff, gag reel etc)
    Don't need 3D or 4K or a Digital Copy. What does the collective recommend as the best option? Thanks! MTFBWY

    Out of what you're interested in, the Target exclusive version sounds like the one you'd want- it has the two Blu-rays (the movie on disc 1 and the special features on disc 2), a DVD (with just the movie), the bonus DVD with the porg featurette and a code for the digital copy. Both the Best Buy steelbook version and the regular Blu-ray release have the two Blu-rays, the DVD and the code for the digital copy.

  12. Mike Frezon

    I got my 4k Last Jedi at Target this morning, too…on the drive into work. It's weird how this Amazon/Disney feud drives us back into stores on Tuesdays for certain titles.

    Yep. Having to head to the local Walmart to pick this up.

  13. Target has free shipping and 5% cash back on all purchases if you use your Redcard. My copy is arriving today via UPS. No need to go to the store even with the Amazon/Disney debacle still in full swing. 🙂

  14. dpippel

    Target has free shipping and 5% cash back on all purchases if you use your Redcard. My copy is arriving today via UPS. No need to go to the store even with the Amazon/Disney debacle still in full swing. 🙂

    Going to Target and picking my copy at the customer service desk is just too easy for me instead of waiting on it from UPS.

  15. dpippel

    Target has free shipping and 5% cash back on all purchases if you use your Redcard. My copy is arriving today via UPS. No need to go to the store even with the Amazon/Disney debacle still in full swing. 🙂

    Going to Target and picking my copy at the customer service desk is just too easy for me instead of waiting on it from UPS.

  16. Robert Crawford

    Going to Target and picking my copy at the customer service desk is just too easy for me instead of waiting on it from UPS.

    I'd rather not drive there and back, try to find a parking spot, deal with traffic, wait in line at Customer Service, and burn the gas. For me it's much easier to open my front door when I get home from work and simply pick up the package. But hey, you retired guys get to do whatever you want. 🙂

  17. dpippel

    I'd rather not drive there and back, try to find a parking spot, deal with traffic, wait in line at Customer Service, and burn the gas. For me it's much easier to open my front door when I get home from work and pick up the package. 🙂

    I go to Target frequently so I'm not arguing your situation, but just commenting about my circumstance. Target is one of the few brick and mortar stores I still actually shop in besides my grocery store.

  18. Because of other commitments, it'll probably be a week or two until I watch my copy. Anybody know if this release is plays quiet (due to being the original theatrical mix instead of home theater-targeted mix) like The Force Awakens and Thor: Ragnarok were?

  19. Adam Lenhardt

    Because of other commitments, it'll probably be a week or two until I watch my copy. Anybody know if this release is plays quiet (due to being the original theatrical mix instead of home theater-targeted mix) like The Force Awakens and Thor: Ragnarok were?

    I'm certainly not an audio guy so I'm no expert but I did have to nudge up my volume slightly but nothing significant.

  20. Adam Lenhardt

    Because of other commitments, it'll probably be a week or two until I watch my copy. Anybody know if this release is plays quiet (due to being the original theatrical mix instead of home theater-targeted mix) like The Force Awakens and Thor: Ragnarok were?

    I'm certainly not an audio guy so I'm no expert but I did have to nudge up my volume slightly but nothing significant.

  21. A frisbee is a frisbee even in a tin box! I am waiting for my Amazon.uk 3D version. I will never buy a flat version of a 3D film. In the past I also would not buy pan and scan.

  22. Carlo Medina

    I believe this is a 3D conversion and not a 3D native film.

    You are correct, and since The Last Jedi was post-converted and not filmed natively in 3D, I have no problem at all watching the "flat version" in 4K . 🙂

  23. I have no desire to side track this discussion, so I will say my piece and shut up! Almost every 3D film is post converted now, this is the way 3D movies are done.

    They are filmed with that in mind however, with the directors input. Scenes are set up to look good when converted to 3D. This is the last step in a planned design.

    It is not as if the director filmed a flat film and then it was stolen from him or her and forced to be converted to 3D by uncaring technicians who’s only goal is to rook the public!

  24. Also the rise of 3D conversion was primarily to bring people back into the theaters, but it has plateau'd in the US (but not in China):
    https://qz.com/1039936/imax-says-no-too-the-reign-of-3d-movies-is-over-in-us-cinemas/
    https://www.thewrap.com/3d-movie-market-why-its-no-longer-hollywood-studios-savior/
    https://www.techradar.com/news/even-imax-is-turning-its-back-on-3d-films

    There is very little evidence that all, or even the majority, of films are filmed "with 3D in mind". There are some staunch advocates (James Cameron comes to mind), but I find very little evidence to support your point about all (or most) films being filmed with 3D in mind.

    And to equate 3D conversion to the Original Aspect Ratio vs. Pan-and-scan argument is quite frankly nonsensical. It's like when a 1.85 film was shot "open matte" so that the director could "keep TV 4:3 aspect ratio in mind", we still supported the original aspect ratio of 1.85, 1.77 or 1.66:1. By your logic, we should have been watching the 4:3 since the director kept that in mind.

    Whether Rian Johnson, or anyone else, had "3D in mind" (again an assertion I see very little evidence of), the director still shot natively flat, and thus the version of record is what's come from the camera negative (or native digital files, in the case that film is no longer used). A conversion is just that: a conversion.

    You may prefer the 3D version, and that's your right. But don't presume to equate a 3D conversion to the "original aspect ratio" vs. pan-n-scan argument, as the latter is a compromise of the artist's vision and the former is a value-add process designed to lure moviegoers to the theater.

  25. Finished watching the 4k (downconverted to 1080p) release in Atmos moments ago. Bought the BestBuy steelbook.

    Found myself skimming through some of it as I really had difficulty watching this a second time.

    I put together a simple collage of photos that explains everything that I feel is wrong with this film. See below.

    However, on technical merits, it sounded fantastic on my theater system. Atmos was evident in a few areas, but not as widespread as I had hoped. I like the way they put resistance ship chatter communication into the high channels. That was kind of neat.

    View attachment 45143

  26. As I have said multiple times on this forum, the success of theatrical 3D in North America has had absolutely no corolation whatsoever to the "potential" success (which is of course now complete failure) of the home consumer 3D format.

    As I have also said in the past, this forum also does not represent the views of the general public, and frequently exhibits the exact opposite.

  27. TJPC

    A frisbee is a frisbee even in a tin box! I am waiting for my Amazon.uk 3D version. I will never buy a flat version of a 3D film. In the past I also would not buy pan and scan.

    Just curious – what about the other way around? Are you okay with watching something like The Wizard of Oz in 3D? That was clearly never intended to be seen in that format, and anyone responsible for creative decision making for that film is long gone.

  28. I am OK with things like the 3D “Wizard of Oz” (which is just about the best conversion I have ever seen), and Titanic. (How many films of the 1930s have been converted?) I would not be OK with it being the only one available.

    I am ok with anyone else watching a flat version of a movie intended for 3D, I just can’t understand why anyone would want to. The same holds true for things like the black and white “Logan”. It is your TV and your choice. Mount your flat screen upside down and stand on your head if you want to.

    I do not like having my preference, which is to see movies intended for 3D at home, taken away.

  29. TJPC

    I am OK with things like the 3D “Wizard of Oz” (which is just about the best conversion I have ever seen), and Titanic. (How many films of the 1930s have been converted?) I would not be OK with it being the only one available.

    I am ok with anyone else watching a flat version of a movie intended for 3D, I just can’t understand why anyone would want to. The same holds true for things like the black and white “Logan”. It is your TV and your choice. Mount your flat screen upside down and stand on your head if you want to.

    I do not like having my preference, which is to see movies intended for 3D at home, taken away.

    And that's an argument for another thread.

    I'll be revisiting this film today as I sit down and watch this 4K/UHD disc.

  30. I realize this argument goes round and round and gets tiresome. I would not have broken my promise to shut up, but I was asked a question. I will return to my previous state now.

  31. atcolomb

    Good film and happy with the new series so far with Disney. I did read somewhere about Mark Hamill not being happy about the script and the way his character was handled in the movie.

    The first extra in the package, a piece about directing the movie, addresses Hamill's discomfort about his character. He said he was adamantly opposed to the direction that Luke was taking, but that after saying so to the director, he bought into the character and the film totally. Rian Johnson said he admired Hamill for disagreeing and then buying in, saying something like, "Mark thought he would be playing Luke Skywalker, when he was actually playing Obi Wan Kenobi."

  32. I don't know what Disney is doing with their Atmos encodings, the levels are absurdly low. I have some audiophile SHM-SACDs from Universal Japan and Hoffman-mastered SACDs from Audio Fidelity that appear to have less headroom than Disney are putting on their UHD Atmos tracks.

    The dts-ma track on the Blu-ray is at a much more normal level than the UHD disc.

    For me this is in the bottom three movies to date, can't decide which order they're in but it's I, II and VIII in the bottom three for sure. Worth owning still, but I can only dream of what this could have been with Abrams helming the entire trilogy arc.

    Fantastic picture on this UHD but very underwhelming volume level. WHen I'm cranking a Blu-ray it's usually at -12dB on my AVR, and that's with no-one else home. With my youngest already in bed trying to sleep I had this one up at -8dB and still wasn't worried the wife was about to come in and say "sleeping!!!!"

  33. dobyblue

    I don't know what Disney is doing with their Atmos encodings, the levels are absurdly low. I have some audiophile SHM-SACDs from Universal Japan and Hoffman-mastered SACDs from Audio Fidelity that appear to have less headroom than Disney are putting on their UHD Atmos tracks.

    The dts-ma track on the Blu-ray is at a much more normal level than the UHD disc.

    For me this is in the bottom three movies to date, can't decide which order they're in but it's I, II and VIII in the bottom three for sure. Worth owning still, but I can only dream of what this could have been with Abrams helming the entire trilogy arc.

    Fantastic picture on this UHD but very underwhelming volume level. WHen I'm cranking a Blu-ray it's usually at -12dB on my AVR, and that's with no-one else home. With my youngest already in bed trying to sleep I had this one up at -8dB and still wasn't worried the wife was about to come in and say "sleeping!!!!"

    Did you try the 7.1 English track on the UHD? I thought the audio on the Atmos track was underwhelming, but I don't have the latest audio gear, so it might just have defaulted to something less on my system.

  34. TJPC

    It is not as if the director filmed a flat film

    That is exactly what is done. Based on my observations, most if not all post converted have very little, if any, 3D in mind. Compare it to the 3D movies from the 50s and you see an immediate difference in the way depth of field is adjusted for 3D. Modern post converted use standard flat film depth of field which is detrimental to the 3D effect.

  35. dobyblue

    I don't know what Disney is doing with their Atmos encodings, the levels are absurdly low.

    WHEW. I'm glad it's not just me. The Atmos track seemed super low to me even AFTER I put it a full 3DB up from where I usually listen (72.5 for the record is my standard on a Denon 6300. I have no idea what reference is on this one, I should probably research that as I'm about to be an HTF media reviewer again) =)

    Can you comment on these levels please @Robert Harris ?

  36. dobyblue

    I don't know what Disney is doing with their Atmos encodings, the levels are absurdly low. I have some audiophile SHM-SACDs from Universal Japan and Hoffman-mastered SACDs from Audio Fidelity that appear to have less headroom than Disney are putting on their UHD Atmos tracks."

    Disney has been putting theatrical mixes on their discs. These are meant to be played at reference at which point you get the same experience you would get at a theater. Other studios mix for discs with a lot less headroom that are meant to be played as much as 10dB lower to achieve the same experience. I would rather studios used the theatrical mix since you would at least know what volume you should be listening to the movie at.

  37. Looks like I'm getting soaked for $70, buying it twice UHD, and 3D.

    Honestly, I wish one of these formats would just go away so I wouldn't have to keep doing this(I just love both so much).

    I wonder which format will go first;)

  38. I just made it through The Director and The Jedi special feature. I am in agreement with the HTF review which states that this is how extras should be done (and used to be done). The Criterion model of substantive extras, which peaked during DVD and early BD days, was soon replaced with lazy EPK style promo extras…not the case with TD&TJ. I can't wait until I get home from work tonight to watch the other extras!

    I love how they didn't even dance around sensitive subjects, they tackled them head-on (like Hamill's dislike of how Luke was written into the story). They could have shied away from it but they didn't, getting Hamill to fully address it in the feature.

  39. skylark68

    Saw this in the theater. The visuals were unbelievably good but some of the film felt a bit rushed. I still think the del Toro character was unnecessary as well as the whole venture to the casino resort. I also wasn't too keen on Skywalker's portrayal. It seemed to stray too far from his character development in the original films. I'm passing on picking up anymore Star Wars films. I'll see them in the theater but that's about it.

    I loved Luke’s portrayal. Fans wanted him swashbuckling around like he was still 25.

    SPOILERS AHEAD:
    Instead, we got someone who realized that turning Vader away from the dark side didn’t accomplish much, that the Jedi made many mistakes, that he himself failed at training new Jedi and that here we are 30 years later and his galaxy is still at war.

    Compared to what the fans wanted, this was IMO, the far more interesting story. If we had gotten the Luke they wanted, then they would have complained like they did about TFA, that it paralleled the beats of the original films too closely.

    And while the casino resort wasn’t absolutely necessary, it gave us some insight into how people lived other than rebels and stormtroopers. That diversion made the film seem more novel-like, which I liked.

    I can’t say I would have had Luke toss as he did, but it certainly was a surprise. One change I would have made is that I would have killed Leia in this film and had Luke die in IX (but that’s meaningless because who am I?)

  40. One of the biggest complaints I have heard is that TLJ is that there are too many funny moments in it. I wonder if the fans complaining remember "A New Hope"? nearly every time Luke, Leia, and Han are around together there are many funny one liners/dialogue, and that isn't even including R2, and 3PO which are also very funny.

  41. Bryan^H

    One of the biggest complaints I have heard is that TLJ is that there are too many funny moments in it. I wonder if the fans complaining remember "A New Hope"? nearly every time Luke, Leia, and Han are around together there are many funny one liners/dialogue, and that isn't even including R2, and 3PO which are also very funny.

    I watched the film for the first time last night. It's not that the film is funny, but TRYING to be funny. And it's not.
    View attachment 45159

    The film is one of the most poorly constructed and assembled messes I've ever seen a major studio release to the general public. Fan produced films flow better than this. Characters spend too much time standing over cliffs and posing for poster shots while spewing out badly written dialogue on how they were betrayed by their parents or mentor. I hope Rian Johnson is seeking help for whatever parental issues he is having. The message of the film seems to be that the older ways and generations are bad and need to be removed for the young to continue with their work.

    There is a reliance on the Force to be an expedient means to advance the plot even if it has properties never shown or discussed in previous films. There is no realistic sense of time and space in the film. Multiple events take place at supposed far ends of the galaxy simultaneously, but everyone is able to return to the Rebel fleet at about the same time. And why is the Rebel fleet running out of fuel, causing ships to fall behind? Unless they are constantly accelerating while fleeing, they should maintain their speed. An object in motion tends to stay in motion. The fleet shouldn't need to burn any fuel once maximum speed of the ships is obtained. Unless they change course. And dialogue says they don't.

    How are shuttles able to leave the fleet, travel across the galaxy, and return while burning less fuel than the capital ships? If you can cloak ships, why not use that when attacking during the bombing run? Why does the Empire come out of light speed too far away to effectively fire on the Rebel fleet? Or have ships in different positions to allow cross fire and prevent escape?

    I really think this was a big FU to older fans of the franchise. While not a passionate one myself, I can see where much of the backlash is warranted from those who are.

  42. zoetmb

    I loved Luke’s portrayal. Fans wanted him swashbuckling around like he was still 25.

    Yes, some fans- whether they realize it or not- want the original movies just with the actors at an older age. Ironically, the biggest complaint about The Force Awakens was that it was too much like the original movies and then this movie actually did something different and they still complained.

    Before some gets pissed, I'm not saying that everyone that didn't like the movie feels that way but there is definitely a contingent of fans that do.

    Bryan^H

    One of the biggest complaints I have heard is that TLJ is that there are too many funny moments in it. I wonder if the fans complaining remember "A New Hope"? nearly every time Luke, Leia, and Han are around together there are many funny one liners/dialogue, and that isn't even including R2, and 3PO which are also very funny.

    Yep. However, I will say that the humor is very 'Earth'. Poe saying "about his mother" is funny and worth the joke but it's not really a joke that I'd expect to hear in a galaxy far, far away.

  43. Robert Crawford

    I'm an older fan of the franchise and I didn't take this as any kind of FU. I actually liked this film quite a bit with my 5th viewing of it today.

    Likewise. I think the film has its fair share of flaws, but overall I liked it better than Force Awakens. I was 8 when the original came out and 14 when Return of the Jedi was released, so I was the absolute ideal age for those films. Thought the prequels were awful, though. I've enjoyed the post-Lucas films, but feel they've all had their weak spots.

  44. We watched this film for the first time last night — rented it on Amazon using some rental credits (we never got around to seeing it in the theater). I thought the film was "just okay". Too much of it seemed like what we'd seen before in previous episodes — the final scene with Supreme Leader Snoke, Luke becoming Rey's Yoda on a remote world (this time for "get your Jedi degree in a hurry" lessons:roll:), Luke then doing an Obi Wan impression, even bringing back those walker weapons (haven't weapons advanced in all those years?). The casino scene was a rehash of the old cantina scene, and really had nothing to do with advancing the plot.

    Despite all that, my wife and I found the film entertaining, but nothing special like the original trilogy. I'm certainly glad I didn't spend $28 on the UHD discs. If the price drops substantially (it's Disney, so it won't happen soon), I'll probably pick it up. However, I'm in no hurry to see the film again.

  45. Scott Merryfield

    even bringing back those walker weapons (haven't weapons advanced in all those years?).

    [NERD]The walkers are different in this one. They're AT-M6s which are much larger and have different front legs than the AT-ATs in The Empire Strikes Back and Return Of The Jedi. Although there are some AT-ATs mixed in with the AT-M6s too. They're small but they're in there.[/NERD]

  46. Scott Merryfield

    Luke becoming Rey's Yoda on a remote world (this time for "get your Jedi degree in a hurry" lessons:roll:)

    It's interesting how people can interpret the same scenes differently. From the very first viewing for me (I've seen it twice in the theater and now once at home), I thought the Luke/Rey dynamic was the opposite of Yoda/Luke. Rey went to Luke seeking a Yoda and got the opposite. A stark refusal and what little he did do was more to discover how already strong she was in the force. Very little of the "how to harness, control" etc. that Yoda did.

    And when watching the documentary, it seems Johnson wanted it to be viewed that way. Hamill's main bone of contention was that Luke was the opposite of what he thought Luke was going to be.

    I think for something like Star Wars, with a dedicated fanbase that now spans decades, all new films are like Rorschach tests. We take out of scenes what we take into it (kind of like Luke and the cave in tESB). 😀

  47. Carlo Medina

    It's interesting how people can interpret the same scenes differently. From the very first viewing for me (I've seen it twice in the theater and now once at home), I thought the Luke/Rey dynamic was the opposite of Yoda/Luke. Rey went to Luke seeking a Yoda and got the opposite. A stark refusal and what little he did do was more to discover how already strong she was in the force. Very little of the "how to harness, control" etc. that Yoda did.

    Yes, I realize Luke was the reluctant tutor, but he did agree to give her three lessons… hence my "speedy Jedi degree" comment in jest.

    Oh, and wookies mustn't age, 'cause Chewbacca appears to be the same as he was in the original trilogy, while Luke and Leia (and Han in the last film) grew old.

  48. Scott Merryfield

    Oh, and wookies mustn't age, 'cause Chewbacca appears to be the same as he was in the original trilogy, while Luke and Leia (and Han in the last film) grew old.

    All that fur hides a lot of flaws. Shave him and he’d look like a raisin. 😆

  49. Scott Merryfield

    Oh, and wookies mustn't age, 'cause Chewbacca appears to be the same as he was in the original trilogy, while Luke and Leia (and Han in the last film) grew old.

    All that fur hides a lot of flaws. Shave him and he’d look like a raisin. 😆

  50. I guess the difference in viewpoint for me Scott is that he was barely a tutor at all (reluctant or willing). That’s why to me it’s the opposite of Yoda. Yoda himself was reluctant “he is too old” “will he finish what he starts” “always looking to the future…never on where he was, what he was doing” etc.

    Luke had a fundamental view that the Jedi order was rooted in failure and needed to end. He didn’t come around from that view until Rey left to help her friends (likely echoing his own actions in his mind when he left Yoda to help Han and Leia).

  51. I guess the difference in viewpoint for me Scott is that he was barely a tutor at all (reluctant or willing). That’s why to me it’s the opposite of Yoda. Yoda himself was reluctant “he is too old” “will he finish what he starts” “always looking to the future…never on where he was, what he was doing” etc.

    Luke had a fundamental view that the Jedi order was rooted in failure and needed to end. He didn’t come around from that view until Rey left to help her friends (likely echoing his own actions in his mind when he left Yoda to help Han and Leia).

  52. Carlo Medina

    I guess the difference in viewpoint for me Scott is that he was barely a tutor at all (reluctant or willing). That’s why to me it’s the opposite of Yoda. Yoda himself was reluctant “he is too old” “will he finish what he starts” “always looking to the future…never on where he was, what he was doing” etc.

    Luke had a fundamental view that the Jedi order was rooted in failure and needed to end. He didn’t come around from that view until Rey left to help her friends (likely echoing his own actions in his mind when he left Yoda to help Han and Leia).

    This is why I'm almost positive Abrams will bring Luke back as a Force ghost.

  53. Carlo Medina

    I guess the difference in viewpoint for me Scott is that he was barely a tutor at all (reluctant or willing). That’s why to me it’s the opposite of Yoda. Yoda himself was reluctant “he is too old” “will he finish what he starts” “always looking to the future…never on where he was, what he was doing” etc.

    Luke had a fundamental view that the Jedi order was rooted in failure and needed to end. He didn’t come around from that view until Rey left to help her friends (likely echoing his own actions in his mind when he left Yoda to help Han and Leia).

    I agree there are differences, Carlo, but to me the basic story/plot ideas are just too similar.

    Spoiler

    I just would have liked to see some more original story ideas, instead of re-using the old ones.

  54. George Lucas introduced deliberate parallels when he made the prequels, so I felt like the sequel trilogy is just mirroring that.

    The Force Awakens took it a little too far into remake territory for my tastes. But I thought Johnson deployed the parallels in interesting ways like Lucas did, relying on our memories of the prior movies to color our interpretation of events in interesting ways. Often, by setting up a familiar scenario and then having it play out to a markedly different result.

    Especially when you consider each trilogy in the context of Joseph Campbell's hero's journey: The first film is Departure, in which the hero leaves behind an ordinary life to embark on the adventure; the second film is Initiation, in which the hero starts to become transformed by the adventure; and then the third film is Return, in which the transformed hero must return to the world that was left behind.

    The subversive thing about the prequel trilogy is that while Anakin's arc fulfills the formal arc, his transformation is from innocent to villain. The subversive thing about the sequel trilogy is that the mentor has no interest in mentoring.

  55. Scott Merryfield

    Oh, and wookies mustn't age, 'cause Chewbacca appears to be the same as he was in the original trilogy, while Luke and Leia (and Han in the last film) grew old.

    [NERD]It's a George Lucas thing that Wookiees are very long lived. Chewbacca is about 200 years old in the original movie so he's about 230 in The Last Jedi and he's still not particularly old for a Wookiee.[/NERD] The ridiculous thing is that this and my previous post aren't even remotely the geekiest bit of Star Wars facts that I have used at HTF.

  56. Carlo Medina

    I viewed TFA as a near remake of the original (though I still enjoyed it). I see TLJ as a subversion of many of the elements of the original three. The prequels to me don’t exist :rolling-smiley:

    I honestly think the "'TFA' = remake" claims are really overstated – and it's easy to view "TLJ" as a semi-remake of "Empire" with some "ROTJ" tossed in as well…

  57. One more thing I am thinking of with regards to this title in particular in terms of A/V quality. A great 4K UHD presentation at home can now best a mediocre (or worse) theatrical setup.

    I saw TLJ twice in the theaters. Both were digital projections (obviously since very few show film projection anymore). Once in Century City at an AMC and once in Irvine at an Edwards. The AMC had tremendous black levels and shadow detail. When I saw it in Irvine, the blacks were not as dark, and there was a lot of lost detail in shadow. I'm usually very cognizant of these things when watching movies, but since I saw the two showings several weeks apart, I wondered if I was misremembering (I saw the Edwards sub-par showing second).

    Now viewing TLJ at home in 4K HDR10 with a Sony 900E with FALD, I see that the blacks are indeed black (or as good as this TV can do, not being OLED), and I see plenty of shadow detail. So I can definitively say I prefer my home setup to the Edwards theater in Irvine.

    Thank goodness I live much closer to the AMC in Century City as that digital projection system is superior to the Edwards in Irvine.

  58. That's been my experience as well in recent years comparing theatrical vs. home viewings. I think my local IMAX theaters (both the xenon digital and laser installations) do phenomenal presentations nearly every time. I think my local Dolby Cinema auditorium has great projection that is somewhat marred by poor design choices in the room. And some of the so-called premium large format auditoriums, like Regal's RPX, can range from pretty decent to pretty good. But for a standard digital 2D admission, or a standard RealD 3D admission, I think it's a crapshoot for what I'm going to get.

    I very rarely see movies in theaters a second time now, whereas I used to do that a lot in the past. Between the declining presentation standards and the shrinking theatrical to home video window, I'm finding it doesn't pay to see a movie a second time in a presentation that may not be great, when I can see it at home with just a short wait.

    The Last Jedi was one of only two films that I saw more than once in theaters last year, and that was because it stuck around in IMAX long enough for me to be able to get the same high quality presentation both times. But even though I would have been happy to see the movie even more times, after seeing a perfect IMAX 3D presentation, I didn't want to see it in a standard 2D or RealD 3D presentation after it had vacated IMAX. It wasn't worth spending the money to see a presentation where I knew it would be inferior to how I originally saw it.

    If you have the time, I think it may be worth writing a letter to the Edwards chain (maybe the local brand, or to the company's CEO) and tell them just what you posted here – that in comparing their presentation of The Last Jedi to the one you got at home, it looked better at home. Theaters need to start caring more about presentation quality or I think the general audience is going to stop coming out. I don't think the average theatergoer necessarily recognizes things like poor blacks and lack of shadow detail on a conscious level, but I think cumulatively they start noticing that going to the movies doesn't seem as magical as it once did, while noticing that watching a movie at home looks better than ever.

  59. One more note about this title, and the issue about the low sound level issues that others have reported.

    I wonder if there's something wrong with the Atmos/TrueHD 5.1 setting? Because here's something weird. I first watched TLJ in my bedroom setup and it was plenty loud, but I also only have a stereo setup in there, so my Pioneer Elite SC-05 downconverts it to 2.0 stereo. And it played at a good volume at the same settings I watch most movies in.

    Today I took it out to my living room HT, which has a full 5.1 TrueHD (no Atmos) setup via my Pioneer Elite SC-79. I found I had to turn it up louder than what I normally listen to other movies at to get similar playback.

    I don't have any explanation as to why the same soundtrack, just downconverted to stereo by a receiver, would play at substantially different relative volumes.

    For the record, I run both at Pure Direct, so there's no EQ'ing, no room correction, no dynamic range compression.

  60. And yet one more note on this title, this time to video brightness, which varies greatly on each of my setups.

    Note: for all my equipment I have the latest firmware as of today. I also have premium certified HDMI cables for both.

    For whatever reason, when I run it from an Oppo 203 -> Samsung KS8000 TV, I have to turn backlight all the way up to 20 (I usually run it at 10 for all my other 4K UHD HDR discs) and even bump up brightness +5 on the TV to get it to look acceptable. It's very obvious that it's too dim from the get-go, Lucasfilm logo and opening crawl is very dim. In fact, putting in another UHD disc shows it's way too bright and I have to back it down.

    When I run it from Sony X800 -> Sony 900E TV, I don't have to adjust a thing when I switch from any other 4K disc to this one.

    Yes I have all settings configured to enable HDR both TVs. I have been watching 4K HDR discs on both sets for a while now and enjoying the results without really having to change brightness, backlight or contrast settings at all (once I dialed them in with test patterns). This is the first title I've had to do that, and what's weird is it's only on one set.

    When I have time, I'll bring the X800 out to the Samsung TV to see if that resolves it, in which case then I will have localized the problem to the Oppo. If it doesn't, then likely it's the Samsung.

  61. Carlo Medina

    For whatever reason, when I run it from an Oppo 203 -> Samsung KS8000 TV, I have to turn backlight all the way up to 20 (I usually run it at 10 for all my other 4K UHD HDR discs) and even bump up brightness +5 on the TV to get it to look acceptable. It's very obvious that it's too dim from the get-go, Lucasfilm logo and opening crawl is very dim. In fact, putting in another UHD disc shows it's way too bright and I have to back it down.

    My guess is that it's the conversion from Dolby Vision from the Oppo player to HDR10 on the Samsung TV. The Sony X800 isn't Dolby Vision compatible, so it was probably straight HDR10 the whole way through.

  62. Adam Lenhardt

    My guess is that it's the conversion from Dolby Vision from the Oppo player to HDR10 on the Samsung TV. The Sony X800 isn't Dolby Vision compatible, so it was probably straight HDR10 the whole way through.

    Thanks for the suggestion. When I get home I’ll check and see if there’s a way I can disable it from doing that since neither Tv supports DV. Unfortunate if that’s the case though because it does a terrible job of conversion.

  63. Adam Lenhardt

    My guess is that it's the conversion from Dolby Vision from the Oppo player to HDR10 on the Samsung TV. The Sony X800 isn't Dolby Vision compatible, so it was probably straight HDR10 the whole way through.

    There's no conversion from Dolby Vision. HDR10 and DV are just different sets of metadata. If your setup can't handle DV it simply uses the HDR10 layer.

  64. Scott Merryfield

    Yes, I realize Luke was the reluctant tutor, but he did agree to give her three lessons… hence my "speedy Jedi degree" comment in jest.

    Oh, and wookies mustn't age, 'cause Chewbacca appears to be the same as he was in the original trilogy, while Luke and Leia (and Han in the last film) grew old.

    And how much training did Luke get in the OT? A bit on the ship with Obi-Wan and two days? with Yoda. Then he returned to get complete his training with Yoda and Yoda told him he was done. As someone else posted, people see what they want to see.

  65. zoetmb

    And how much training did Luke get in the OT? A bit on the ship with Obi-Wan and two days? with Yoda. Then he returned to get complete his training with Yoda and Yoda told him he was done. As someone else posted, people see what they want to see.

    I'm not the expert, but I seem to remember some logic which said he was on Degobah for a month or so. I could be wrong about that.

  66. Yeah time is a slippery concept in Star Wars movies (did I even see a sunrise/sunset in ESB?) but I had never though Luke was in Dagobah for only 2 days (or 48 hours since a day on a strange planet could be a year on ours). I never had any concrete number in mind but my guess would have been closer to Jason's suggestion of a month rather than 2 days.

  67. The amount of time that passes in The Empire Strikes Back is a frequent topic of debate among Star Wars fans. Taking what's onscreen, it seems like it's a pretty short amount of time (a couple of days). However since the Millennium Falcon had to travel to Cloud City without using lightspeed, it's fair to assume it is a longer amount of time. It hasn't been established in canon but I think of the amount of time as being a few weeks or a month but that's just me.

  68. Agreed that the time that passed in ESB is a bit iffy. But I didn't see it as more than maybe 3 days at the most between the time the gang splits off in different directions, and back together when Leia, Chewie and Lando rescues Luke off the antenna on Bespin.

    Han says that Bespin is in the system they were currently in when the Imperial Fleet sped off. They didn't have far to go. Remember that even interplanetary flight in Star Wars is pretty quick without light speed.

    Someone mentioned grain. I didn't notice enough to be distracting on the Blu-ray.

  69. Joel Fontenot

    Agreed that the time that passed in ESB is a bit iffy. But I didn't see it as more than maybe 3 days at the most between the time the gang splits off in different directions, and back together when Leia, Chewie and Lando rescues Luke off the antenna on Bespin.

    The only problem with that "3 days at the most" is the amount of perceived time Luke spent training with Yoda. Like you said, it's a bit iffy.

  70. Joel Fontenot

    Agreed that the time that passed in ESB is a bit iffy. But I didn't see it as more than maybe 3 days at the most between the time the gang splits off in different directions, and back together when Leia, Chewie and Lando rescues Luke off the antenna on Bespin.

    Han says that Bespin is in the system they were currently in when the Imperial Fleet sped off. They didn't have far to go. Remember that even interplanetary flight in Star Wars is pretty quick without light speed.

    Someone mentioned grain. I didn't notice enough to be distracting on the Blu-ray.

    The Resistance ships didn’t seem to be going all that fast in Episode 8 when they didn’t have enough fuel to go to light speed. 😉

  71. Joel Fontenot

    Agreed that the time that passed in ESB is a bit iffy. But I didn't see it as more than maybe 3 days at the most between the time the gang splits off in different directions, and back together when Leia, Chewie and Lando rescues Luke off the antenna on Bespin.

    Han says that Bespin is in the system they were currently in when the Imperial Fleet sped off. They didn't have far to go. Remember that even interplanetary flight in Star Wars is pretty quick without light speed.

    They're in the Anoat system at that point ("Where are we?" "The Anoat system." "The Anoat system? There's not much there.") so they've still got to travel to the Bespin system. However, Bespin must be right next to Anoat since they'd need to be looking for a nearby port. That's why I think the movie doesn't take place over a handful of days (like the movie makes it look) or many months (like some fans will say due to the length of time to travel from Anoat to Bespin) but more like a few weeks. I said it was a debated topic among fans. 🙂

  72. Even though I have the 4K release, my setup isn't 4K compatible. But I spent the day with the Blu-Ray version and the bonus features disc and was really blown away.

    It's a really beautiful looking film from start to finish. But my main takeaway was appreciating far better how this one plays into the larger whole. When I saw the movie in theaters, I thought a lot of the unexpected decisions Rian Johnson made with this movie were subversive f-yous that blew up the three act structure. But watching it again on disc, I was struck by just how seriously he took his role of crafting the middle third of a trilogy. Once I was able to let go of my preconception that Snoke was the Big Bad, it all clicked into place. Kylo Ren and Rey are avatars for the dark and light sides of the Force. As the dark side grew in strength and influence with the rise of the First Order, Rey's emergence in TFA was the Force trying to reestablish homeostasis. They're the two poles on which this trilogy rests, and Johnson's job was to clear away the clutter so that that opposition could take center stage in Episode IX.

    The journey of basically every character in this film is to be confronted with their greatest weakness, suffer for it, and come out the other side with greater knowledge and resolve — quintessential middle chapter stuff.

    Rey's journey is to make peace with her past. At the start of the film, she is desperate for someone to reveal her place in the universe. By the end of the film, she is no longer reliant on outside validation. She has figured out her own place.

    Luke Skywalker's journey is to make peace with the legend of Luke Skywalker. At the start of the film, he has fled as far as possibly could from it. By the end of the film, he's fully embraced it and in so doing has achieved what he specifically stated in the beginning was impossible.

    Finn's journey is to find his cause. In The Force Awakens, he deserts the First Order. At the start of this film, he is preparing to desert the Resistance. By the end of the film, he's found his place within the Resistance and is loyal not just to Rey as his friend but the Resistance as a rallying cry. His journey with Rose is a massive tactical failure, but takes him into the larger world and exposes him to why the Resistance is worth fighting for.

    Poe Dameron's journey is to learn leadership. He's an exceptional warrior on the battlefield, but he's not a good tactician at all. He makes one bad decision after another, so fixated on the immediate problem at hand that he doesn't perceive the larger picture. By the end of the film, he's internalized the hard lessons that Leia and Holdo have been trying to teach him.

    Rose's journey is to step out of her sister's shadow. At the start of the film, she's working in a support capacity and lives in awe of her sister. By the end of the film, her sister is dead and she has stepped up to fill her shoes.

    Even though the First Order achieves nearly complete tactical victory in this picture, Kylo Ren is the one main character who doesn't achieve apotheosis. He spends the entire film talking about the importance of wiping the slate clean, but he couldn't kill his mother and his obsession with his uncle allowed the remaining members of the Resistance to get away. So he goes into the concluding chapter of this trilogy at a distinct disadvantage, despite his overwhelming tactical advantages.

    dpippel

    There's no conversion from Dolby Vision. HDR10 and DV are just different sets of metadata. If your setup can't handle DV it simply uses the HDR10 layer.

    Thank you for clarifying. Shows how little I know about HDR!

  73. Adam, I think you hit all of the important points and did so beautifully.

    I'm waiting on the 3D disc from the UK, so I don't have the movie to rewatch yet. However, I did purchase a code for the digital version (the UK release doesn't come with one) so I could watch the "score-only" version. I watched the first hour of that and I was really struck by the beauty of the music with the images – I would gladly purchase an edition of the entire Star Wars saga that was presented this way. (Or even a music and effects version if that would be easier for the powers that be to assemble.)

    The movie does remind me a lot of The Empire Strikes Back, but not in a bad way. I think The Force Awakens leaned a little too heavily on the structure of the original film, but The Last Jedi keeps the broad strokes without following as obviously in its predecessor's footsteps. Maybe because of that, the movie didn't strike me as subversive, and I was genuinely surprised that so many people had issues with it. I didn't understand how people could say that this wasn't anything like a Star Wars movie, when it did so many of the same things that Empire did. I appreciate that since the days of George Lucas, these movies have been made to have that symmetry, as if they're rhyming with each other, and for me, The Last Jedi fit perfectly within that.

    I think this film also did a great job of really passing the baton more fully from the older cast to the new cast. Before The Last Jedi came out, I had thought that Episode IX was going to have to serve not only as the conclusion to the new trilogy, but as the finale for the entire nine movie saga. But the handoff is so complete in Last Jedi that whatever Episode IX is, I don't think it needs to be a conclusion to all three trilogies; it just needs to function as the conclusion to this new trilogy.

  74. Josh Steinberg

    However, I did purchase a code for the digital version (the UK release doesn't come with one) so I could watch the "score-only" version. I watched the first hour of that and I was really struck by the beauty of the music with the images – I would gladly purchase an edition of the entire Star Wars saga that was presented this way. (Or even a music and effects version if that would be easier for the powers that be to assemble.)

    My next viewing will be with Johnson's audio commentary, but I definitely look forward to doing the same in probably a few weeks. George Lucas always designed the first six movies to work as silent movies, so I'd love isolated score tracks for all of them.

  75. TJPC

    I got a text today that said my 3D copy was “dispatched” and presently in Wales.

    Terry, mine is on the way as well.

    Trouble is, I don't think I want to watch the film for the third time. So, this will probably stay in shrink-wrap.

  76. Adam Lenhardt

    My next viewing will be with Johnson's audio commentary, but I definitely look forward to doing the same in probably a few weeks. George Lucas always designed the first six movies to work as silent movies, so I'd love isolated score tracks for all of them.

    Which brings me to my one annoyance. I get that extras are shlepped off to the lesser 2K disc so that the 4K can have maximum bit rate. But commentary tracks don’t take all that much room. Would be nice to have it on the 4K disc so I don’t have to swap.

    To clarify: this is not a problem unique to TLJ. Every 4K disc does this.

  77. Blimpoy06

    I watched the film for the first time last night. It's not that the film is funny, but TRYING to be funny. And it's not.
    View attachment 45159

    The film is one of the most poorly constructed and assembled messes I've ever seen a major studio release to the general public. Fan produced films flow better than this. Characters spend too much time standing over cliffs and posing for poster shots while spewing out badly written dialogue on how they were betrayed by their parents or mentor. I hope Rian Johnson is seeking help for whatever parental issues he is having. The message of the film seems to be that the older ways and generations are bad and need to be removed for the young to continue with their work.

    There is a reliance on the Force to be an expedient means to advance the plot even if it has properties never shown or discussed in previous films. There is no realistic sense of time and space in the film. Multiple events take place at supposed far ends of the galaxy simultaneously, but everyone is able to return to the Rebel fleet at about the same time. And why is the Rebel fleet running out of fuel, causing ships to fall behind? Unless they are constantly accelerating while fleeing, they should maintain their speed. An object in motion tends to stay in motion. The fleet shouldn't need to burn any fuel once maximum speed of the ships is obtained. Unless they change course. And dialogue says they don't.

    How are shuttles able to leave the fleet, travel across the galaxy, and return while burning less fuel than the capital ships? If you can cloak ships, why not use that when attacking during the bombing run? Why does the Empire come out of light speed too far away to effectively fire on the Rebel fleet? Or have ships in different positions to allow cross fire and prevent escape?

    I really think this was a big FU to older fans of the franchise. While not a passionate one myself, I can see where much of the backlash is warranted from those who are.

    That is too bad you feel that way. I think it is such a great movie, I wish everyone felt the way I do about it.

    It may be sacrilege, but I think "The Last Jedi" is one of the best Star Wars films ever made. And that is coming from an OT, old school Star Wars fan going back to 1980 when I first saw "The Empire Strikes Back".

  78. Bryan^H

    It may be sacrilege, but I think "The Last Jedi" is one of the best Star Wars films ever made.

    I would consider it a bad film even if the name Star Wars wasn't attached to it. I'm not even a fan of the franchise. That's why I thought I could offer an unbiased opinion as someone with no agenda going in to it.

  79. Blimpoy06

    I watched the film for the first time last night. It's not that the film is funny, but TRYING to be funny. And it's not.
    View attachment 45159

    The film is one of the most poorly constructed and assembled messes I've ever seen a major studio release to the general public. Fan produced films flow better than this. Characters spend too much time standing over cliffs and posing for poster shots while spewing out badly written dialogue on how they were betrayed by their parents or mentor. I hope Rian Johnson is seeking help for whatever parental issues he is having. The message of the film seems to be that the older ways and generations are bad and need to be removed for the young to continue with their work.

    There is a reliance on the Force to be an expedient means to advance the plot even if it has properties never shown or discussed in previous films. There is no realistic sense of time and space in the film. Multiple events take place at supposed far ends of the galaxy simultaneously, but everyone is able to return to the Rebel fleet at about the same time. And why is the Rebel fleet running out of fuel, causing ships to fall behind? Unless they are constantly accelerating while fleeing, they should maintain their speed. An object in motion tends to stay in motion. The fleet shouldn't need to burn any fuel once maximum speed of the ships is obtained. Unless they change course. And dialogue says they don't.

    How are shuttles able to leave the fleet, travel across the galaxy, and return while burning less fuel than the capital ships? If you can cloak ships, why not use that when attacking during the bombing run? Why does the Empire come out of light speed too far away to effectively fire on the Rebel fleet? Or have ships in different positions to allow cross fire and prevent escape?

    I really think this was a big FU to older fans of the franchise. While not a passionate one myself, I can see where much of the backlash is warranted from those who are.

    I didn’t see this film as “older ways and generations are bad” but as a passing of the torch to a new generation. This is life. You get old and pass the baton to a new generation. “A New Hope” had some of that. Luke Skywalter followed and replaced Obe Wan Kenobe.

    There can be no more definite statement of the need for a younger generation then the tragic passing of Carrie Fisher.

  80. Johnny Angell

    I didn’t see this film as “older ways and generations are bad” but as a passing of the torch to a new generation. This is life. You get old and pass the baton to a new generation. “A New Hope” had some of that. Luke Skywalter followed and replaced Obe Wan Kenobe.

    What you see as passing the torch, I saw as extinguishing the flame. I haven't seen this many characters over 30 kill themselves since Logan's Run. I get it. Disney doesn't want posters of old gray haired actors selling Star Wars anymore. But the message I got from viewing the film was that the old had to go because their ideas and views were no longer valid. That's what bothered me. Laura Dern's character was introduced solely for this purpose.

  81. Blimpoy06

    I get it. Disney doesn't want posters of old gray haired actors selling Star Wars anymore. But the message I got from viewing the film was that the old had to go because their ideas and views were no longer valid. That's what bothered me. Laura Dern's character was introduced solely for this purpose.

    "Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong." 😀

  82. Adam Lenhardt

    "Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong." 😀

    It's a gift I have.

    "Some people can read War and Peace and come away thinking it's a simple adventure story. Others can read the ingredients on a chewing gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe." – Lex Luther.

  83. Blimpoy06

    What you see as passing the torch, I saw as extinguishing the flame. I haven't seen this many characters over 30 kill themselves since Logan's Run. I get it. Disney doesn't want posters of old gray haired actors selling Star Wars anymore. But the message I got from viewing the film was that the old had to go because their ideas and views were no longer valid. That's what bothered me. Laura Dern's character was introduced solely for this purpose.

    :huh: Wow, I don't agree with those comments at all.

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