A Few Words About A few words about...™ Once Upon a Time in America - Extended Director's Cut -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[JohnMor]

If they had the ability to make it red, they would. But to paraphrase all those men who weren't doctors but played them on TV, film restoration technology has only come so far.

Huh?

 

[Michel_Hafner]

If they had the ability to make it red, they would. But to paraphrase all those men who weren't doctors but played them on TV, film restoration technology has only come so far.

There are no problems whatsoever to make objects on 35mm films shot in the 80s look red with today's technology. Even when they were originally shot green or blue or black and white.

 

[MatthewA]

Huh?

Well, if the new scenes have faded color, one wonders whether the color changes to the rest of the film are so they would match those more closely. Not having seen the film in any length (and I imagine the extra-short US theatrical version Roger Ebert called "a travesty" will never be seen again) I honestly thought that's what he was talking about.

 

[Alan Tully]

There are no problems whatsoever to make objects on 35mm films shot in the 80s look red with today's technology. Even when they were originally shot green or blue or black and white.

Oh yeah, you could do that 30 years ago with secondary colour correction (on telecine, not in a film lab), isolate a colour & change say, a green car to a red car, all that sort of stuff. But if you're working with good elements you shouldn't need it. If something is orange which should be red, then maybe the whole shot is getting the wrong colour correction. I used to use it mostly with flesh tones, a shot looks great, but the flesh tones look a wee bit magenta (esp. with Agfa neg), then a tiny change to the red hue would solve that, & if you're working with faded film, but then it's a bit of a salvage job anyway.

 

[chris1234]

There's a further review and caps at:http://www.blu-raydefinition.com/reviews/time-america-extended-directors-cut-blu-ray-review.html"This Extended Edition Director’s Cut of Once Upon a Time in America has been scanned in 4K resolution and brought to Blu-ray in an AVC/MPEG-4 1080p encodement from Warner. Generally speaking, it looks gorgeous given the nature of the film, its age, and the various techniques Leone employed. "

The good news is that WB's new extended BD may be sharper than WB's 2011 BD and may not have the compression problems of the Italian BD.To judge properly I'd need to see the whole movie rather than individual scanned frames.The bad news is that the new extended BD may have a tint.Some color comparisons:http://www.lb2121.webspace.virginmedia.com/comp.htm

 

[FoxyMulder]

The bad news is that the new extended BD may have a tint.Some color comparisons:http://www.lb2121.webspace.virginmedia.com/comp.htm

Wasn't there also an accusation about another Leone film having a yellow tint, some obscure western, can't remember it's name, i don't think it starred anyone famous, if only i could remember the name, oh well i guess i'll wait until the 229 minute cut of Once Upon A Time In America gets a decent release, what's that you say, hell just froze over, i'll add the smiley later.

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

Well, I will certainly pick-up the single disc version that just includes this new "extended cut" of the film as I already own the 229 minute version on the previous blu-ray. At $13.97 I think it is well worth grabbing to see this new edit even with the color issues. What can I say, I'm a big Leone fan.

I'm am glad that the film got a new scan but I'm not surprised to see that as an added bonus the color timing was altered.

 

[OliverK]

Maybe we should start a petition to release a version of the new scan with the old colour timing applied. I really don't want to miss out on the added detail from the 4K scan, but neither put up with any revisionist colour grading.

That sounds reasonable, I am in. The old color timing may not be 100% spot on but it certainly is the only version of the two that is watchable. Of course the old version is vastly inferior when it comes to detail and textures. I keep seeing Blu-rays with excellent detail and textures but weird and unnatural colors and at times gamma and contast and for me that is as big of a problem as the previous filtering and sharpening.

 

[chris1234]

post deleted by user

 

[Aaron Silverman]

Wow, I totally forgot this was coming.

Sounds like it should've stayed forgotten. I am curious about the extra footage, though. . .

Perhaps we'll get a "fixed" version with 4K detail and correct color timing on an actual 4K disc someday.

 

[alter filmnarr]

I had the pleasure to project this masterpiece for several months in its "first run" here in Vienna. I agree completely with Mr. Kimmel. Also for me the "old" WB BD brings (almost) perfectly back to me, what I've seen during it's initial release.

The Italian "restauration" is simply awful! The first BD in my life I've sent back to amazon.

It's a big disappointment for me, that WARNER did not revise the new version, but at the end I will stay happy enough with the "normal" BD...

 

[Bob Cashill]

I saw this at the New York Film Festival today, at the Walter Reade Theater. Robert De Niro, James Woods, Treat Williams, William Forsythe, and Scott Schutzman Tiler (so good as the young Noodles, and today 43, two years older than De Niro when he made the film) were in attendance; De Niro and Woods said a few words before the screening, and all but De Niro were on hand to shake hands and talk with audience members afterwards.

That was lovely. Still, I slumped into my chair, knowing first hand how bad the Italian BD is, and reading RAH's thumbs down review of the new WB one. It was going to be a long four hours.

And...

I was treated to a gorgeous DCP!

I'm not one of those forum members to boast that I can recall the exact look of a film when I saw it in 1958, because a) I have trouble remembering what I had for lunch last Tuesday and b) I wasn't around in 1958. But I was about 20 when I saw ONCE UPON A TIME IN AMERICA, first, the abortive, unmentionable short version in 1984, followed by at least three memorable screenings of the 229m version in 1985 and 1986. I own or have owned and the LD, DVD, and Blu-ray...and the horrid Italian BD. So I know something of how the film is supposed to look.

And the DCP has that look, in spades. It's not smoothed over, waxy, and grainless. You want a red Big Apple? You get a red Big Apple, not an orange Big Apple, and every other color that Sergio Leone and Tonino Delli Conti intended you to see. I've read of a yellow tint; I did detect a subtle change or shift in color when the movie enters the boyhood scenes (its great strength; so well cast and beautifully done), but it wasn't a "tint," or a color wash, or some other anomaly; if this was something I hadn't seen before, it felt organic, and proper. Unobtrusive.

The restored footage, particularly Louise Fletcher's unnecessary scene, looked and also sounded terrible. No surprise there. Darlanne Fluegel (who gets a new introductory scene in the delicate, latticed time sequencing of events) and Williams (who gets a long or lengthened scene with Woods toward the end, discussing matters easily inferred in the 229m cut) will be pleased, but the rest struck me as superfluous, and given the shape of the materials would have been much better presented as deleted scenes.*

Unlike the Italian BD, the DCP shows no sign whatsoever of being dumbed down or degraded to match that crappy, chalky white, colorless footage.

I'm awaiting the new WB BD to find out exactly what's on there. An inadequate rendering of the DCP? A vain attempt to "fix" the Italian BD? As the kids say, "WTF?" The DCP is stunning. What's up with the new BD?

*SPOILER: There is no scene explaining how a commerce secretary could live in the shadows for decades, unphotographed so as to go undetected by his former comrade, but I go with it, just as I accept the secretary's secret door to the street below, something scoffed at in reviews. In a movie full of motifs of the past, it's a reminder of his speakeasy days, of moving up in the world without moving on

 

[haineshisway]

Well, that's interesting. The childhood scenes always had a certain look to it that was different than the modern scenes, which had great color and which don't on the Blu-ray from Italy. Skies should be blue not white or pale as on the Italian thing. Well, I'll have the Blu on Tuesday and I'll know instantly if it's just a rehash of the Italian thing.

 

[Michel_Hafner]

The DCP is playing nearby too soon so I will probably check it out.

 

[Robert Harris]

I saw this at the New York Film Festival today, at the Walter Reade Theater. Robert De Niro, James Woods, Treat Williams, William Forsythe, and Scott Schutzman Tiler (so good as the young Noodles, and today 43, two years older than De Niro when he made the film) were in attendance; De Niro and Woods said a few words before the screening, and all but De Niro were on hand to shake hands and talk with audience members afterwards. That was lovely. Still, I slumped into my chair, knowing first hand how bad the Italian BD is, and reading RAH's thumbs down review of the new WB one. It was going to be a long four hours. And... I was treated to a gorgeous DCP! I'm not one of those forum members to boast that I can recall the exact look of a film when I saw it in 1958, because a) I have trouble remembering what I had for lunch last Tuesday and b) I wasn't around in 1958. But I was about 20 when I saw ONCE UPON A TIME IN AMERICA, first, the abortive, unmentionable short version in 1984, followed by at least three memorable screenings of the 229m version in 1985 and 1986. I own or have owned and the LD, DVD, and Blu-ray...and the horrid Italian BD. So I know something of how the film is supposed to look. And the DCP has that look, in spades. It's not smoothed over, waxy, and grainless. You want a red Big Apple? You get a red Big Apple, not an orange Big Apple, and every other color that Sergio Leone and Tonino Delli Conti intended you to see. I've read of a yellow tint; I did detect a subtle change or shift in color when the movie enters the boyhood scenes (its great strength; so well cast and beautifully done), but it wasn't a "tint," or a color wash, or some other anomaly; if this was something I hadn't seen before, it felt organic, and proper. Unobtrusive. The restored footage, particularly Louise Fletcher's unnecessary scene, looked and also sounded terrible. No surprise there. Darlanne Fluegel (who gets a new introductory scene in the delicate, latticed time sequencing of events) and Williams (who gets a long or lengthened scene with Woods toward the end, discussing matters easily inferred in the 229m cut) will be pleased, but the rest struck me as superfluous, and given the shape of the materials would have been much better presented as deleted scenes.* Unlike the Italian BD, the DCP shows no sign whatsoever of being dumbed down or degraded to match that crappy, chalky white, colorless footage. I'm awaiting the new WB BD to find out exactly what's on there. An inadequate rendering of the DCP? A vain attempt to "fix" the Italian BD? As the kids say, "WTF?" The DCP is stunning. What's up with the new BD? *SPOILER: There is no scene explaining how a commerce secretary could live in the shadows for decades, unphotographed so as to go undetected by his former comrade, but I go with it, just as I accept the secretary's secret door to the street below, something scoffed at in reviews. In a movie full of motifs of the past, it's a reminder of his speakeasy days, of moving up in the world without moving on

Great news!RAH

 

[FoxyMulder]

Great news!RAH

Sure is.

Someone here has to have Warner Bros contacts, why is there a gorgeous looking DCP but a mediocre looking blu ray.

 

[alter filmnarr]

I'm not one of those forum members to boast that I can recall the exact look of a film when I saw it in 1958, because a) I have trouble remembering what I had for lunch last Tuesday and b) I wasn't around in 1958.

Actually the movie is from 1984...

Because of a legal action and Leone's protests the movie was shown in Europe only in its unaltered version. The "butchered" version was only to be seen in the US.

In the version I know, every "time setting" had (has) its own colour scheme. That is completely lost in the Italian BD. Maybe someone thought "...hmmm, the 80s are past now, so they have to be yellow too"?

 

[Bob Cashill]

Yes I know when the movie was released; my humor may not translate...

 

[Dale MA]

Just cancelled my preorder. Thanks for the heads up RAH. I'll stick with my copies of the deluxe DVD set & original BD.

 

[alter filmnarr]

Yes I know when the movie was released; my humor may not translate...

...or my brain is working too slowly - actually I was released 1958