A Few Words About A few words about...™ Pinocchio -- in Blu-ray

Discussion in 'Blu-ray and UHD' started by Robert Harris, Mar 2, 2009.

  1. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Archivist
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    I've seen Song of the South numerous times, and have never found it to be racist. If anything, the former slaves, now free men and women still living on the plantation, are those whom one would wish to have actually raising one's children, as the wealthy white parents, don't seem to care all that much until there's a problem.

    SotS makes Uncle Remus and his brethren the heroes of the tale.

    But that was 140 years ago, and today...

    Possibly things haven't changed that much.

    Beyond that SotS exhibits some of cinematographer Gregg Toland's (Citizen Kane) finest work, in absolutely magnificent Technicolor!

    RAH
     
  2. Ed St. Clair

    Ed St. Clair Producer

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    [bold: mine]
    Ugh!
    That just makes me want too see "SotS" even more in HD!
    --------------------------------------------------------
    RAH, what is your favorite "Technicolor" HDM today?
    "TAoRH", maybe?
    ----------------
    Well, at least a 69 yr old film on smoking will look 'good' on todays digital displays.
    However, is that really the point of HiRez or was it to reproduce the original source? (JJ)
    This is just another BD title we needed too have multiple versions in the release (seriously).
    (they could call one: new "Kiddie Kandy" color & one old "Dirty Drab" color.
    I'd think I'd go for the "Dirty"... butt hay, that's just me!)
     
  3. RickER

    RickER Producer

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    Bit to much grain for my taste. Can we crank up the EE too? [​IMG]

    Yea, thats right, soften it, then add the EE.

    But really, i think it will be a great disc. Its on pre-order.

    Id rather an anti smoking PSA, than the dont steal movies! On movies i buy!
     
  4. Chris S

    Chris S Cinematographer

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    I'm with those who say as long as they leave the film untouched they can show whatever PSA they deem appropriate for the material. After all this is Disney so I'm a little surprised it hasn't been cleaned up to some degree.
     
  5. Jim_E

    Jim_E Stunt Coordinator

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    Just taking a look at the disc now - the oldest title in my Blu collection, although it doesn't look like it. Great picture and sound. I probably won't use them but I even like the optional painted side panels that can be used to fill up a 16x9 screen. A nice touch to appease those who might complain that their whole TV screen isn't being filled up. Would have preferred a lossless (or higher bitrate than 192 kbps) track for the original mono, but its not a dealbreaker for me.

    I'd echo the other comments about the anti smoking message - if including it means no edits to the film then its fine by me, and its skippable for those who don't like the idea of it anyway. Perhaps future releases of Fantasia and Song of the South could have similar messages so that any questionable content in them can be put in context.

    It'll take a while to go through the bonus features - but so far the Cine-Explore commentary is again very interesting and shows the effort Disney is putting into their Platinum titles. Unlike with Sleeping Beauty there's no cardboard sleeve for the DVD this time - the disc is included in the Blu case, which is preferable to me at least, but may not be if people want to store it separately.

    Overall I'd say this is another great release from Disney. Roll on Snow White!
     
  6. Deco King

    Deco King Extra

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    Like the last poster Jim_E I can't wait for the First and Fairest Of Them All Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs to appear on Blu Ray at long last !!!

    I hope that since it's the original feature length Technicolor sound animated motion picture that they treat it with the veneration that this truly historic title deserves , and don't trash it's original colour values ( I'm sure they will trash the original colours ) but here's hoping that they don't !!

    Really looking forward to this classic movie !! [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  7. Brian Kidd

    Brian Kidd Screenwriter
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    PINOCCHIO is my absolute favorite of the classic Disney animated films. I don't believe that the studio ever surpassed the level of detail, design, and heart that came together to make this masterpiece. As someone who has been clinging to his original DVD release for dear life, I am overjoyed that I can finally own the film on Blu-Ray and experience it anew. Bring on FANTASIA!!! [​IMG]
     
  8. Mike Frezon

    Mike Frezon Moderator
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    Couldn't agree more, Brian.

    Beauty and the Beast is at the top of my list, too. And while it can compete in the detail & design portion of your statement...the heart belongs, hands-down, to Pinocchio.
     
  9. Brian Borst

    Brian Borst Screenwriter

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    I'm going to get it tomorrow. I can also compare it to the previous restoration that was done for the region 2 dvd. They are similar in one point: the RKO logo was there in that restored version as well.
     
  10. Stephen_J_H

    Stephen_J_H All Things Film Junkie
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    All this talk of "trashed colour values" makes me want to get out my Disney Animation: The Illusion of Life and do a comparison with my calibrated display. I think the original cels will tell us more than an original nitrate print, as original Technicolor prints would hae printed the dye transfer onto receiving stock with a 50% density copy of the green element (in B & W) exposed on it, increasing contrast but at the same time "dulling" the colour overall. I would hope that Disney would (as they have in the past) use whatever surviving cels exist as colour reference.
     
  11. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Archivist
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    The archival staff at Disney always returns to the original nitrate cells for confirmation of color. From my experience with nitrate 35mm dye transfer prints of the era, colors are definitely muted. The way that the work ethic has been explained to me, they bypass everything and while they may examine original prints, the color comes from the original cells, which remain untainted.

    RAH
     
  12. MatthewA

    MatthewA Lead Actor

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    Unfortunately, looking at the cells alone does not take into account the reasons behind certain color choices, mainly because the camera does not replicate what the human eyes see.
     
  13. Edwin-S

    Edwin-S Producer

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    I guess I see it differently. The majority of my viewings of this film have been with the muted colour palette. I think the muted colour gave a lot of Disney's classic films a more naturalistic look which added an illusion of depth.

    I won't refuse to pick up this release but I definitely prefer the toned down color palette to one based entirely on the original cels. I just find that overly bright colour tends to remind me too much of modern computer coloured animation. Sometimes, completely eliminating the patina of age or the effects of a particular film stock, on a film, also results in the loss of something intangible.
     
  14. Rob W

    Rob W Supporting Actor

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    Having read animation history books for years, I was always under the impression that the Disney staff chose the colors on the original cels based on how they would reproduce in Technicolor, and NOT how they looked on the cels, knowing full well that the colors on film would NOT come through the same way they appeared on the cels. Weren't the 'Silly Symphonies' the studio's training ground in experimenting with color and how it could be used and how it would appear on film ?
     
  15. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Archivist
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    Unfortunately, from an archival perspective, a dye transfer print is just that.

    While it can serve as a guide, virtually every dye transfer print is different from the next, with the ONLY truly representative print being the final accepted answer print, and even that will seldom be perfect.

    RAH
     
  16. Richard--W

    Richard--W Banned

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    I ordered mine through the Disney Movie Club and I look forward to an evening when I can set aside the time to give it my full attention.

    I knew this was going to come up, just as I knew everyone would ignore the issue of today's colorists tampering with creative decisions of the original filmmakers because they are careless, inattentive, or arrogantly think they can make it look better. This disrespect for the original color of early films has reached epidemic proportions and needs to be confronted head-on by critics and reviewers.
     
  17. RobertR

    RobertR Lead Actor

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    I thought I read that the Sleeping Beauty BR was done with an eye to how the cels appeared when photographed. Was this not done for Pinocchio?
     
  18. TravisR

    TravisR Studio Mogul

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    That's what RAH says at the top of the page.

    As far as I'm concerned, it's the usual self-appointed experts crying wolf like every other animated release.
     
  19. Mike Frezon

    Mike Frezon Moderator
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    As you can be sure the sun will rise in the east...
     
  20. Rob W

    Rob W Supporting Actor

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    Has anybody heard of this latest development ? The story is from VARIETY :

    How do you improve on a classic? For Walt Disney Studios Home Entertainment, the answer is to color every inch of it. Starting with "Pinocchio," the studio is sprucing up the black bars that frame its classic animated features when rendered for the small screen.
    Animator Toby Bluth has created "decorative" bars, dubbed Disney View, which will frame the Blu-ray version of "Pinocchio" due March 10. The standard DVD edition will continue to use plain black bars.

    Rather than distort the original theatrical image, Disney's classic animation has historically been tagged with black bars on the sides when played on widescreen TV sets. However, some fans have complained that the bars take away from their viewing experience.

    "It supports the film, and is at most an accompaniment," said Bluth, who created 16 sets of Disney View bars for "Pinocchio." "There aren't any panels that distract from the film. They are like theatrical set pieces framing the action."
     

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