A Few Words About A few words about...™ Citizen Kane -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[JoHud]

I just got my Blu-Ray and the packaging comes mighty close to giving away the ending of the picture.
If you've never seen this film before, try not to look too hard at the outside of the brown booklet containing the lobby pictures because BLAMMO!

While I agree, at least that design doesn't show what the object is (though it does narrow it down some)

 

[DarthYotsuya]

While not technically accurate, I think of the lens and filters as part of the camera. My point was that there is a lot that goes into film making to get the image on the film and it is just as important as what you do with the film after it has been exposed. More so in many cases.

The camera is not irrelevant. There are many ways that the camera affects what goes onto the film and affects the quality of what comes after. I know of several movies that were filmed with panty-hose over the lens to give it a soft look.

Lenses and filters and pantyhose aren't the camera. As for the last, whether it's gels or Vaseline or the finest Victoria's Secret has to offer, it's its own layer of "creative" tinkering (that really ought to be done in post production. Compromising camera negative with an effect whose charm may wear off between the time the footage was shot and when the negative goes to answer-print is insane. Futz with it all you want in post, but leave the negative pristine). The same goes for filters (anyone who's ever blanched at Joshua Logan's ghastly "creative" misuse of filters on SOUTH PACIFIC knows what I mean). And lenses shouldn't affect color, apart from coatings meant to reduce chromatic aberration.

The effect you get with a filter over the lens is not one that can be chemically replicated. Though it can be digitally replicated. It is a matter of how the light enters the camera and records on the film. That is the desired effect by the creative team behind the films mentioned. Cinematography is an artform and it includes many things that directly alter how the image arrives on the film. In addition to many artistic effects, there are filters to correct for technical issues, including color (yes, they use filters to adjust the color before a film even reaches the color timing stage). I would bet that 90% of the movies you watch make some use of filters. Just because you know of a few cases where it turned out bad does not mean it is always bad.
It is funny how I've never once heard anyone in the film industry make such harsh anti-creative comments on this subject. And it is doubly funny that this has started out of a discussion of Citizen Kane, a film that made great use of unusual and creative ways of shooting, including deep focus and use of filters. So much so that the cinematographer was nominated for an Oscar.
In case anyone wants to read up on Citizen Kane's cinematographer, I found this link http://www.cinematographers.nl/GreatDoPh/toland.htm

 

[DarthYotsuya]

The camera is the box, the lens is the lens. Together they are a system. Of course the lens choices and film stock are critical to the way the film looks, but the box is the box. This is why Mitchell cameras that were built in the 30s were still being used as late as the 80s, but they weren't still using the lenses made in the 30s.
Doug

I should more correctly be referring to the cinematography which is the entire process of capturing the image, including camera, lens, filters, lighting, and film.

 

[DavidJ]

I ended up not getting the edition with Ambersons and the discussion above is making me regret the decision. BTW, Amazon has raised the price of their edition with Ambersons to almost $56.

 

[Hollowbrook Drive-In]

Alternatively, if one is working from daily lites, which even MGM could not keep standardized, they will keep you in the ballpark.  Other than that, grading is grading, and while you can not time every shot, you're then going to go through a whole lot of test prints.
 
RAH
 

Of course, nothing was more variable than color changes from core to core and reel to reel in IB Technicolor, since the dyes for each were mixed separately and, despite every effort at quality control, inevitably varied slightly from batch to batch (of course, that irreplaceable breathtaking color was worth it...).

 

[montrealfilmguy]

Ive been buying filmmaking apps at Itunes
which are a lot more expensive than 90% but totally useful.
One is called Toland.Its 40 bucks.
http://itunes.apple.com/ca/app/toland-asc-digital-assistant/id377419210?mt=8
promise im checking that DVD smudgy rain scene after supper.

 

[montrealfilmguy]

From the excellent Letters of note website,
the about part.
Letters of Note is an attempt to gather and sort fascinating letters, postcards, telegrams, faxes, and memos. Scans/photos where possible. Fakes will be sneered at. Updated every weekday.
And the permalink,which everyone here must read.
http://www.lettersofnote.com/2011/09/he-is-talented-to-point-of-genius.html
Nice to find out where Mr.Bernstein was inspired from.

 

[Richard--W]

Fascinating letter.
Thanks for posting that link.
I take the letter as further evidence to support Orson Welles' contentions, in interviews, that as a child he was considered something of a prodigy.

I ended up not getting the edition with Ambersons and the discussion above is making me regret the decision. BTW, Amazon has raised the price of their edition with Ambersons to almost $56.

Yeah.
Screen captures:
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/dvdreviews21/magnificent_ambersons_dvd_review.htm

 

[Robert Crawford]

Originally Posted by DavidJ /t/314260/a-few-words-about-citizen-kane-in-blu-ray/150#post_3850656
I ended up not getting the edition with Ambersons and the discussion above is making me regret the decision. BTW, Amazon has raised the price of their edition with Ambersons to almost $56.

I'm glad I didn't cancel my order with Ambersons, the dvd could be better, but it's also a distinct improvement over my DVD-R of this great film. Hopefully, when/if Warner decides to release it's anniversay edition of Ambersons, it will be much improved and in high definition, but in the meantime, I have a dvd that can hold me over until then.







Crawdaddy

 

[Richard--W]

Hello there,
Just to clarify (probably way after anyone cares to know the answer), the BBC owns outright the TV rights to the RKO library in the UK (like Italian state broadcaster RAI co-owns the rights in Italy). These were sold off separately and are not under a licence with Warner or anyone else. This is significant because it means that Warners cannot distribute their home video versions to us in Europe. Time Warner has US rights and some other territories but they are not global (Universal has UK home video rights to the library for instance). As for the BBC's marvellous documentaries, they are not available commercially though chunks are easy to obtain illegally on YouTube and the like.

The BBC owns the TV rights to the RKO library in the UK and has made very good use of it over the years, including the 1987 series THE RKO STORY hosted by Ed Asner. The Orson Welles interview from 1982 was a two-part episode made for their ARENA documentary series and was titled: THE ORSON WELLES STORY. The BBC also produced a magnificent 90-minute documentary about KANE called THE COMPLETE CITIZEN KANE from 1991 which is too little known and is an exemplary film which includes interviews with everyone from William Alland, who acts as narrator as he did for the original film, to technicians, actors and critics - and even includes Pauline Kael basically apologising for her claims that Welles didn't deserve any real credit for co-writing the original Oscar-winning screenplay.
By comparison THE BATTLE OVER CITIZEN KANE comes across as a much more partisan documentary, more interested in muckraking that filmmaking.
If you can get access to the BBC documentaries I really recommend them - the KANE one begins in wonderful fashion with an approximation of what the proposed HEART OF DARKNESS film might have been like.

Thanks for clarifying.
I remember seeing The RKO Story on the Bravo Network years and years ago.
Thought I taped it, but if I did I can't find it now.
I looked for the interview with Orson Welles on the BBC website but didn't find it there, not as a download or a DVD.
Do you know if the interviews have been released as The Orson Welles Story or in some other way shape or form?
Do you know how I can get it and The Complete Citizen Kane documentary?
They sound like necessary supplements.
I consider Orson Welles interviews to be as dazzling as the films he directed, and as entertaining and interesting.
I recommend everybody click Buy It Now on this interview:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00374G3NO/sr=1-1/qid=1316253891/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&qid=1316253891&sr=1-1&seller=

Filmed in a Paris hotel room in 1960.
Interviewer Bernard Braden asks confrontational questions for about an hour.
Required to sit under a hot light, Welles starts to sweat profusely, but he seems to enjoy the discourse.
Welles is relaxed and confident, self-effacing, self-aware, pragmatic about the movie business, down-to-earth, sincere, and truthful.
He clearly knows literature and drama both as art and as craft and is able to discuss them articulately.
He is fascinating to listen to, particularly when fielding questions about Citizen Kane and his reputation.
In fact, his answers are consistent with similar responses he gave twenty-two years later in the BBC interviews.
I believe this is where he first made the famous remark "I'm a little ashamed of Rosebud. It's dollar book Freud."
It's as if all the talking wits seated at the Algonquin Round-Table turned into one man.
You'll never hear so many quotable quotes spoken spontaneously within the space of an hour.

 

[montrealfilmguy]

Thanks for this news.
This is the kind of stuff i love.
I'm ordering it this week.

 

[Peter Neski]

I am not happy with the Extras,most just transferred from the dvd (some Not) For the Greatest Film of all Time you would think they could add some new extras
No new Documentary or anything.....Lame

 

[David_B_K]

I am not happy with the Extras,most just transferred from the dvd (some Not) For the Greatest Film of all Time you would think they could add some new extras
No new Documentary or anything.....Lame

Agreed. And the lame extras probably inflated the price of a fairly expensive edition.

 

[Richard--W]

With regard to the supplements, I wish Warner Brothers had retired the back-handed, blind-sighted The Battle Over Citizen Kane, which is readily available elsewhere, and replaced it with one or two of the following:
1. Arena: The Orson Welles Story (BBC-TV, 1982)
Leslie Megahey interviews Orson Welles for over 2 hours.
2. With Orson Welles: Stories From a Life In Film (TNT-TV, 1983)
career biography utilizing selections from the Arena interviews. 140 minutes.
3. Hollywood the Golden Years: The RKO Story (BBC-TV, 1987).
Episode 4, "It's All True."
1 hour.
4. The Complete Citizen Kane (BBC-TV, 1991).
a comprehensive history of the production, includes interviews with Welles and others. 90 minutes.
There is more background material and insights, together with a broader and more even-handed perspective, in the above than The Battle Over Citizen Kane provides.

 

[DavidJ]

Richard, are any of those available in the US on DVD?

 

[Richard--W]

No, unfortunately, and that's the point of my post.
These are informative and well-produced documentaries.
If Warner Brothers Home Video or some other entity is disposed to license them, there is a consumer interest.
The Battle Over Citizen Kane is not the only word, nor the last word, on the subject.
I taped With Orson Welles: Stories From a Life In Film off TNT about twenty-five years ago. On analog tape. You can imagine how it looks now. I found a short segment of what I think is The Complete Citizen Kane at the end of another tape, recorded at slow speed, also about twenty years ago, and it looks worse.

 

[Richard--W]

I checked amazon to see if the price had come down to earth and instead I find that they have withdrawn CITIZEN KANE and THE MAGNIFICENT AMBERSONS. "The item is under review." Does anyone know why the BR and DVD combo are under review?

 

[Charles Smith]

WTF -- Twilight Zone Season 5, and now this? All in one week?

 

[TonyD]

Usually that happens when they get a bunch of complaints about the packaging getting damaged due to poor shipping protection.

 

[AdrianTurner]

My copy arrived in the UK in perfect condition, though I was disappointed to find that Ambersons is just a separate disc and not part of the overall package. The Battle Over Citizen Kane is new to me, though I already have the Arena interviews, the RKO Story etc, plus a rather good Barry Norman documentary that was part of the UK DVD special edition. I started off by watching RKO 281 - I'd seen it before (don't know where, don't know when) - and I once again found it very impressive, shot in the UK yet pretty convincing in all departments. I particularly liked the fairly straightforward way it was directed and photographed, with little attempt to replicate the style of Kane itself, except for just one sequence when Marion Davies chases Hearst down the massive staircase with both their angry voices echoing - that scene suddenly transformed RKO281 into Citizen Kane.