7" iPad, the rumor that won't go away... (1 Viewer)

[Sam Posten]

That's a pretty accurate rundown I guess. You have to remember that not all cards are the same quality and that just makes a huge mess. That's the bottom line: It'd be out of Apple's ability to create a consistent experience so it has to go.
Control freak? Yep
Adds cost? Yep
Worth it? IMO yep, obviously others disagree.

 

[Hanson]

Don't want to sound like a broken record, but with Android YOU have the CHOICE to go all internal storage or mix and match.

Options is good.

 

[DaveF]

How do apps store data with a sd card? Say I'm using CarCare to track my fuel costs. Then I swap cards to get different music. Did I lose my CarCare data?

 

[Hanson]

If your device had onboard storage, the CarCare program data would be on the phone and removing the SD Card did not affect anything. If you had a phone that relied on the SD card for all storage (which is the way Android was designed to function pre-Honeycomb) then you wouldn't be able to access the data. It would stay on the card, but the program would be stuck since it had no data to read. Once you reinserted that SD card, everything would be copacetic.

It used to be that if you kept a ringtone on your SD card you plugged your phone into a PC in storage mode, the PC would exclusively lock the entire SD card. Which meant that when a call came in, it wouldn't ring.

Nowadays, ICS and Jellybean phones all have onboard storage. So both of those scenarios are things of the past. Swapping SD card for different music libraries is something that can easily be done. But what kind of OCD packrat has a >128GB music collection anyway? ;-)

 

[Sam Posten]

Maybe I'm missing something but I don't think you answered his actual question. You got every other scenario but what actually happens today.
So I have a card that has a dozen apps on it but those apps are not linked to their actual data. I pull that card and the apps go away but the data remains on the device. I put that card in another device I have and then I have the app on that device but no data. How do you get the data from one device to another?
And I'll be a broken record too: Choice CAN be good but it requires expertise to avoid common pitfalls. If you remove choice you can streamline the experience across the entire sample set and ensure that everyone has the same results. Neither philosophy is right, but both have pros and cons.

 

[Hanson]

I believe I totally answered Dave's question. Did I Dave?

As for your question, Sam, there are actually two different questions in there. The first part is moot in modern Android phones. All of the Froyo era phones had internal storage, so that data is not on the removable SD card. Your scenario involves phones from the eclair era.

The second part of your question appears to be, "how do I transfer my program data from one phone to the other?" Unfortunately, the only one step way to backup and restore program settings is to root the phone because program settings are protected. All of the programs I use regularly have their own cloud settings, so the sole thing I lose moving from one device to the other is game save data. But many games now are saving scores and progress to the cloud, which also means I can play on my phone and then pick up later on my tablet.

Backup and restoration of program settings is probably the one critical feature that Android is currently dropping the ball on. I have a feeling they're relying for the devs to include cloud options (if your game supports OpenFeint, for instance, it will save scores and progress). There is a cloud backup implementation in ICS, but none of the restorations include program data. I'm hoping they develop this into a true backup and restore function.

 

[Sam Posten]

Fair enough. I thought modern Android phones still allowed some kind of external card storage I guess that's not the case at all. The funny thing is that this whole scenario is really more Apple-like these days, isn't it? Why haven't Android users freaked over this feature loss? Isn't this cutting off choices and freedoms to streamline the experience?
Anyway, this keeps rearing its ugly head:
http://www.cultofmac.com/189281/revised-third-gen-ipads-could-be-on-their-way-next-month-and-might-mean-no-ipad-4-in-2013
We had the same rumors and they were BS then, I believe them to be BS now. There might be a SILENT spec bump to the iPad 10" to introduce form fit and function replacement parts at lower prices, but I earnestly do not believe we will see a true replacement with new dock until 2013. We'll see tho, but I'll eat my hat if it happens. My hat might be made of meat tho.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Agree with you Sam. Two years in a row these ugly
rumors come up and no new iPad.

I am confident we will see an iPad mini this year but
no new iPad.

 

[Hanson]

Originally Posted by Sam Posten /t/322021/7-ipad-the-rumor-that-wont-go-away/60#post_3971562
Fair enough. I thought modern Android phones still allowed some kind of external card storage I guess that's not the case at all. The funny thing is that this whole scenario is really more Apple-like these days, isn't it? Why haven't Android users freaked over this feature loss? Isn't this cutting off choices and freedoms to streamline the experience?

Either you're misreading my posts or I'm not explaining it correctly.

Yes, if Google ran everything, there would no longer be removable SD storage on Android. Their Nexus products no longer have SD card slots anymore, and HTC followed suit by removing the SD card slot from their One line. However...

Users want them. It costs $100 increase 16GB to 32GB memory but only $50 for a 64GB microSD card. Shit, I want want them. And SD is perfectly suited to store pictures and videos. As a matter of fact, they use SD cards for this exact purposes for... whaddaya call those? Cameras. The internal stuff is faster stuff to be sure, but paying $100 for 16GB is overkill when a class 6 card will be more than enough to store pictures. And mp3's? Fuggetaboutit.

Removable storage is one of the huge reasons to get the S3 over the HTC One. So no one is freaking out that Google does not endorse it, because all you have to do is buy the Galaxy S3. And if you get the S3 and don't buy an SD card, your phone will work either way. That CHOICE takes care of beginners and experts.

 

[Sam Posten]

OK, I guess that makes sense. And yes, you missed those details in the lead up so those of us who don't follow every 3 months worth of new Androids wouldn't have gotten that subtlety. Will the average Android buyer take that into consideration? Or is it moot because the S3 is the clear Android phone to get this year? Do the new Moto's support SD cards? If not, why not?

 

[Hanson]

The new Moto RAZRs do, but many of the HTC models don't (although I don't think they'll make that mistake again). I think Google had their eye on the cloud for media (Google Music was built to stream music from the cloud), but AT&T and Verizon's new limited data plans have put the focus squarely back on local storage. I mean, Spotify is nice and all, but I don't want to pay data overages because I listen to music no matter where I am 24/7.

And I think the average buyer does take it into consideration. Even though the One X was generally considered to be slightly better than the S3, the S3 won that battle handily. The SD card slot was definitely a factor in that outcome.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Originally Posted by Sam Posten /t/322021/7-ipad-the-rumor-that-wont-go-away/30#post_3971126
Man: That's a tradeoff of the 'disposable' nature of a sealed system. It isn't in Apple's best interest to spend resources creating a viable tradeup program when there already exists a WILDLY SUCCESSFUL secondary market. Apple DOES have a recycle program which will net you 90% of what Gazelle gets which nets you 90% of what Ebay / Craigslist gets. That seems pretty fair to me. You give up a certain percentage of value for convenience and reliability. If you are resourceful you can make more dough. If you value your time you can trade in instantly.
http://www.apple.com/recycling/
http://www.gazelle.com/
You can remove your personal data from the device securely and reliably with 4 button presses prior to using any of those 4 options. What more do you want? What other manufacturers are doing what you want? What incentive is there for anyone to do that? What profit?

Hmmm... Hadn't looked into their recycling program for this, but looks like it'd basically cost you ~$175 + whatever price diff in the upgrade to do a swap (of your old iPad3 for a reconditioned one). That's a bit too steep to be a realistic option in most cases. I think what I suggested is better and really not too much to ask for.

And basically, what I asked is for Apple to stand by their premium priced product just a bit more than they currently do. It's not like everyone will actually do an upgrade w/in the criteria I suggested afterall. The whole point of my suggestion was more to allow for a bit of buyer "protection" and to ease the initial purchase decision. For instance, if I believe 32GB should be enough, but ends up finding out 6 months later that I actually need 64GB, would be great to have that limited option to upgrade at a reasonable price -- and by reasonable, I mean the original $100 diff plus some reasonable fee (vs the ~$175 you'd pay right now via their recycle/refurb offers) for doing so and/or my commitment to buy AppleCare to enable that option in the first place perhaps.

And if they only offer that option via AppleCare, that would probably get them additional buyers into AppleCare to help offset at least some of the opportunity of not offering the option at all. Also, since they already have some sort of recycle program along w/ refurb offers, it probably wouldn't cost them much in terms of operations and such to add such an option either.

That would certainly give buyers an extra peace of mind, which IMHO should be part of the overall Apple experience, if that's feasible for them to do -- and I don't see why it can't be feasible.

_Man_

PS: Actually, if one already buys AppleCare, their current swap cost via recycle/refurbs (before actual upgrade) would hike by a prorated portion of the cost of AppleCare, not just the ~$175 I mentioned above. So really not a good way to go at all...

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Microsoft set out to do that with their first line of Metro phones, and abandoned it as unsuccessful. Recall, they were going to offer a slot for an SD card, under the battery. Put a card in, and its capacity and the built-in would be managed as a unified amount to the user. Better than both iOS and Android, allowing user expansion after purchase without the user having to manage what's stored where.

But, to my understanding, they gave up. Apparently 3rd party memory cards were too inconsistent in performance and stability to be used for main storage. Or something? But MS couldn't lick the problem that every Android enthusiast says is trivial.

Correct if I'm wrong. I've not looked into this in a while. Maybe it is an option now with WP7 phones. And I've not looked into how Android does it, and what the UX is, the cost benefits, and storage capacities available now.

What I suggested is nothing of the sort. I'm basically suggesting for Apple to consider some sort of limited basis trade-in upgrade program primarily to help ease buyer decision and offer a bit of buyer "protection" in case an upgrade turns out to be needed (w/in reason). That would basically turn this into a strictly business side concern, not a hardware/tech side concern, which would be much easier for them to implement, especially since they already likely have most of the needed business side operations to handle this -- afterall, as Sam pointed out, they already have a recycling program plus refurb sales offers, but using that approach to do your own upgrade would basically cost you ~$175 for the privilege plus whatever diff for the upgrade itself (to swap your old iPad3 for a reconditioned one from them).

Any hardware side issue has more to do w/ trying to go beyond 64GB since they don't currently offer more than that. But that actually has almost nothing to do w/ what I'm primarily suggesting. IF/when they start offering 128GB iPads, then my business side suggestion would work just fine w/ them too. In fact, it might even help people hop onboard now and buy their 64GB models w/ the option to upgrade to 128GB if Apple should actually produce that in the near future, which would likely benefit Apple's bottomline me thinks.

_Man_

 

[DaveF]

I believe I totally answered Dave's question. Did I Dave?
As for your question, Sam, there are actually two different questions in there. The first part is moot in modern Android phones. All of the Froyo era phones had internal storage, so that data is not on the removable SD card. Your scenario involves phones from the eclair era.
The second part of your question appears to be, "how do I transfer my program data from one phone to the other?" Unfortunately, the only one step way to backup and restore program settings is to root the phone because program settings are protected. All of the programs I use regularly have their own cloud settings, so the sole thing I lose moving from one device to the other is game save data. But many games now are saving scores and progress to the cloud, which also means I can play on my phone and then pick up later on my tablet.
Backup and restoration of program settings is probably the one critical feature that Android is currently dropping the ball on. I have a feeling they're relying for the devs to include cloud options (if your game supports OpenFeint, for instance, it will save scores and progress). There is a cloud backup implementation in ICS, but none of the restorations include program data. I'm hoping they develop this into a true backup and restore function.

Because I've never used these devices, I'm still curious what the user experience is? What is the decision process for where stuff is stored?
So...I buy an S3. I put an SD card in it. I load it up with apps and games. Input my music on it. My games have save files. I take photos. I edit some videos. I create documents and to-do,lists and spreadsheets.
Then I think, I want to watch a movie that is (somehow?) on a different card. I switch it.
What happens if I go to play a game or edit a document or look at a photo? Does it work? Is it missing? Am I always explicitly in control of what is stored where? Or is the phone doing it for me based on its criteria? Am I managing disks and sub-directories on my phone? Or is it a magic set of rules that I have to decipher to know what works where?
I just have no idea what the modern Android experience is. (and the iPhone certainly has its "magic" processes with iCloud)

 

[Sam Posten]

Man I dunno, that's some serious dreaming right there. Does BMW have a trade in program that is as generous as what you are suggesting? Does ANY product?
There is no incentive to do anything even remotely like that with the business they are doing right now.

 

[TonyD]

Ron says in the GS3 topic that games aren't saved to the sd card. I imagine music can be and probably photos.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Originally Posted by Sam Posten /t/322021/7-ipad-the-rumor-that-wont-go-away/60#post_3971833
Man I dunno, that's some serious dreaming right there. Does BMW have a trade in program that is as generous as what you are suggesting? Does ANY product?
There is no incentive to do anything even remotely like that with the business they are doing right now.

You mean BMW would never consider selling you any sort of upgrade after the original purchase of the vehicle? Also, I don't know about BMW itself, but are you saying none of the luxury car companies and their dealerships would ever offer trade-in programs that would basically cost you a reasonable amount (to make it worth their while) over what it would cost you to do the same in the 2ndary market on your own? Huh?

Anyway, the notion of a trade-in would only be needed if doing other types of upgrades is not feasible, which is basically what you're saying in Apple's case w/ the iPad and why I suggested the trade-in route instead.

And in essence, Apple is already offering some way for us to effectively do that, except I'm arguing that the cost (of going the recycle+refurb route) is too high. OTOH, perhaps, part of the reason why the cost of that route is too high is because it allows much greater flexibility than what I'm asking for, ie. greater flexibility generally requires greater overhead and so would naturally cost more.

Anyway, yes, for now, you may be right that they just don't have enough incentive to offer what I'm asking, but them having no significant incentive to offer something (yet) won't really stop you or the next guy from wanting and asking for something anyway, no? For instance, should they never offer an 128GB version in the future just because they don't now? You might shift the blame for that on something else (like design/tech limitation), but ultimately, it comes back to the same thing in terms of the business. They *can* do it, if they *really* want to, but they essentially have no incentive (to make the kind of compromises) to do so because people are eating them up sans the larger storage anyway...

_Man_

 

[Sam Posten]

You can what if it to death sir but there is no reason for them to do what you want and plenty of other options. It ain't gonna happen. Frankly I'm surprised they are so close to gazelle as is.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Well, I'm not exactly holding my breath for that of course. But I do definitely dislike the seemingly disposable nature/attitude w/ these things -- and that's of course not just limited to the potential storage crimp and useful battery life issue -- and will continue to approach all of them conservatively as a potential customer. They're selling plenty now of course, but they definitely aren't selling as much as they might if they offer a bit more peace of mind to their (potential) customers (at least those like me)...

I'll say this though. If the iPad Mini/Air will actually be directly competitive w/ the Nexus 7 in all aspects, including price, I won't be bitching about its disposable nature... maybe...

On a tangentially related lighter note, this is what I get (w/ a few

http://9to5mac.com/2012/09/06/we-can-laugh-at-ourselves-right/

Just counting the days now for this iPad Mini/Air/whatever...

Cheers!

_Man_

 

[Sam Posten]

Spoilerific rumored working mini:
http://www.cultofmac.com/191365/first-pictures-of-working-ipad-mini-surface/?utm_medium=twit&utm_campaign=spread-us