2023 At The Box Office (1 Viewer)

[ManW_TheUncool]

I think part of the "hate" towards Brie Larson is due to a comment she made at a press conference a few years ago where she expressed an interest in seeing a more diverse group of journalists asking her questions. What sounded reasonable was taken to be an insult by many online, and hence the hate.

An example illustrating her point is this review:

The Marvels Reviews Film Threat - Part 2

NOW IN THEATERS! Ironically, The Marvels is about as fun as a cat and a laser pointer (which appears in the movie). You'll chase the story only for so long before you realize there's nothing there. Our tale opens with the Kree leader Dar-Benn (Zawe Ashton) searching for a powerful wrist...

filmthreat.com

where the conclusion is the following (as if teen girls can not be comic book fans):

"In the end, The Marvel is a superhero movie clearly made and produced by people who have never read a Marvel comic book but read Archie instead. It feels like it was made for teen girls and not for actual comic book fans."


Whatever merits the review had, I think, is lost in that conclusion.

Not that I think anyone should use such a stereotype... but it probably gets the point across succinctly and reasonably accurately though (regardless of whether one agrees w/ him/her or not about the movie).

The movie clearly plays like it's targeted more for that demographic than any other IMHO... and I'd say the poor box office performance probably reflects that to a great extent -- that's not to say nobody other than teen girls will like it of course (or that most teen girls will like it either)...

_Man_

 

[TravisR]

An example illustrating her point is this review:

The Marvels Reviews Film Threat - Part 2

NOW IN THEATERS! Ironically, The Marvels is about as fun as a cat and a laser pointer (which appears in the movie). You'll chase the story only for so long before you realize there's nothing there. Our tale opens with the Kree leader Dar-Benn (Zawe Ashton) searching for a powerful wrist...

filmthreat.com

where the conclusion is the following (as if teen girls can not be comic book fans):

"In the end, The Marvel is a superhero movie clearly made and produced by people who have never read a Marvel comic book but read Archie instead. It feels like it was made for teen girls and not for actual comic book fans."

Not to go too far off topic but I'd like to give a truly and deeply meant "go f--- yourself" to the dope that wrote that. As someone who has actually been reading comic books for decades (not just watching superhero movies), the average Archie comics have been better than 99% of the usual superhero junk coming out of Marvel and DC for many years now.

 

[Colin Jacobson]

Seems like there were some stories at the time of the first Captain Marvel painting Larson as difficult and unlikeable. It didn't seem to hurt that film, though maybe it's intensified over the years. I haven't heard much about it this time around.

On another forum I visit, a bunch of the inmates whine and moan about Larson.

They also have a hate-on for Rachel Zegler.

It's all misogyny, but the "incel crowd" seems to really have it out for those 2.

 

[Colin Jacobson]

I think part of the "hate" towards Brie Larson is due to a comment she made at a press conference a few years ago where she expressed an interest in seeing a more diverse group of journalists asking her questions. What sounded reasonable was taken to be an insult by many online, and hence the hate.

An example illustrating her point is this review:

The Marvels Reviews Film Threat - Part 2

NOW IN THEATERS! Ironically, The Marvels is about as fun as a cat and a laser pointer (which appears in the movie). You'll chase the story only for so long before you realize there's nothing there. Our tale opens with the Kree leader Dar-Benn (Zawe Ashton) searching for a powerful wrist...

filmthreat.com

where the conclusion is the following (as if teen girls can not be comic book fans):

"In the end, The Marvel is a superhero movie clearly made and produced by people who have never read a Marvel comic book but read Archie instead. It feels like it was made for teen girls and not for actual comic book fans."


Whatever merits the review had, I think, is lost in that conclusion.

In the eyes of far too many male movie fans, "made for teen girls" is the worst possible insult.

What's wrong with movies made for teen girls?

 

[Colin Jacobson]

Not that I think anyone should use such a stereotype... but it probably gets the point across succinctly and reasonably accurately though (regardless of whether one agrees w/ him/her or not about the movie).

No - "made for teen girls" is sexist dismissiveness 99% of the time.

It's not meant to present this as a valid demo.

Same with "music made for teen girls" - in the misogynistic world of so much social media, that's a terrible insult.

 

[Jake Lipson]

I think part of the "hate" towards Brie Larson is due to a comment she made at a press conference a few years ago where she expressed an interest in seeing a more diverse group of journalists asking her questions. What sounded reasonable was taken to be an insult by many online, and hence the hate.

Hating Larson for that reason is ridiculous but is also unfortunately entirely consistent with other behavior by certain pockets of online trolls who dislike diversity in entertainment in general. The Star Wars "fans" who drove Kelly Marie Tran off social media after The Last Jedi come to mind. People like that seem to be a minority, and yet they are often a very loud minority.

I didn't like The Marvels. But I do find it unfortunate that people like that are getting satisfaction from the fact that this particular MCU movie is the one flopping to such an unprecedented degree.

 

[Keith Cobby]

On another forum I visit, a bunch of the inmates whine and moan about Larson.

They also have a hate-on for Rachel Zegler.

It's all misogyny, but the "incel crowd" seems to really have it out for those 2.

I think it's unfortunate that all film critics are men, all film criticism on YouTube is from men, and all of us commenting on HTF are men.

 

[TravisR]

I didn't like The Marvels. But I do find it unfortunate that people like that are getting satisfaction from the fact that this particular MCU movie is the one flopping to such an unprecedented degree.

Yeah, the way that some people are acting makes you wonder if they think there's a prize for a movie that they don't like not making enough money. If it's any consolation, I'm sure the Star Wars fandom is still the gold standard for cesspool "fans".

 

[Colin Jacobson]

Hating Larson for that reason is ridiculous but is also unfortunately entirely consistent with other behavior by certain pockets of online trolls who dislike diversity in entertainment in general. The Star Wars "fans" who drove Kelly Marie Tran off social media after The Last Jedi come to mind. People like that seem to be a minority, and yet they are often a very loud minority.

I didn't like The Marvels. But I do find it unfortunate that people like that are getting satisfaction from the fact that this particular MCU movie is the one flopping to such an unprecedented degree.

It's also anti-Disney sentiment often impelled by political domains we can't discuss.

 

[Tino]

Index

		Movie Title	Distributor	Gross	%LW	Theaters	Theaters Change	Per Theater	Total Gross	Weekends In Release
1	(1)	The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds & Snakes	Lionsgate	$28,820,000	-35%	3,776	n/c	$7,632	$98,370,000	2
2	N	Napoleon	Sony Pictures	$20,400,000		3,500		$5,829	$32,500,000	1
3	N	Wish	Walt Disney	$19,500,000		3,900		$5,000	$31,700,000	1
4	(2)	Trolls Band Together	Universal	$17,520,000	-42%	3,893	+23	$4,500	$64,468,000	2
5	(3)	Thanksgiving	Sony Pictures	$7,150,000	-31%	3,204	n/c	$2,232	$24,193,000	2
6	(4)	The Marvels	Walt Disney	$6,400,000	-37%	3,070	-960	$2,085	$76,853,446	3
7	(7)	The Holdovers	Focus Features	$2,740,000	+2%	1,601	+123	$1,711	$12,880,000	5
8	(6)	TAYLOR SWIFT | THE ERAS TOUR	AMC Theatres…	$2,330,000	-16%	946	-627	$2,463	$178,265,894	7
9	(5)	Five Nights at Freddy’s	Universal	$1,750,000	-51%	1,754	-1,075	$998	$136,209,000	5
-	(8)	Next Goal Wins	Searchlight …	$1,700,000	-32%	2,240	n/c	$759	$5,742,770	2
-	(9)	Priscilla	A24	$1,300,032	-44%	1,063	-739	$1,223	$19,602,138	5
-	(10)	Killers of the Flower Moon	Paramount Pi…	$1,025,000	-48%	767	-947	$1,336	$65,614,000	6
-	(13)	Radical	Pantelion Films	$750,600	-22%	325	-136	$2,310	$7,812,897	4
-	(16)	Dream Scenario	A24	$639,521	+149%	124	+99	$5,157	$1,387,818	3
-	(12)	Journey to Bethlehem	Sony Pictures	$615,000	-39%	1,384	-618	$444	$5,690,293	3
-	(-)	Fallen Leaves	MUBI	$42,510	-13%	8	+6	$5,314	$115,615	2
-	(-)	Oppenheimer	Universal	$32,000	-26%	102	-2	$314	$325,367,000	19
-	(-)	The Exorcist: Believer	Universal	$21,000	-84%	35	-260	$600	$65,531,000	8
-	N	Menus-Plaisirs Les Troisgros	Zipporah	$6,500		1		$6,500	$8,500	1
-	(-)	The Disappearance of Shere Hite	IFC Films	$2,538	-84%	2	n/c	$1,269	$20,821	2
-	(-)	Common Ground	Area 23a	$1,500	-83%	2	-2	$750	$215,506	9
		21		$112,746,201

 

[Lord Dalek]

Maybe America is finally getting tired of Buck and Lee's half baked rehashes. That might cause Disney to rethink Frozen IV.

 

[Wayne_j]

Good hold for Hunger Games. It is insane to see Disney animated features released for Thanksgiving making less than $20 million.

 

[TravisR]

It is insane to see Disney animated features released for Thanksgiving making less than $20 million.

Yeah, it's almost like the audience has learned that a Disney movie will be on Disney + in two months or something. That doesn't matter as much when you have a movie that people are saying is good because people will still go to the theater but it's box office poison when the word of mouth is mixed or bad (like Haunted Mansion or this year's Marvel movies or Wish).

 

[Jeff Adkins]

Yeah, it's almost like the audience has learned that a Disney movie will be on Disney + in two months or something. That doesn't matter as much when you have a movie that people are saying is good because people will still go to the theater but it's box office poison when the word of mouth is mixed or bad (like Haunted Mansion or this year's Marvel movies or Wish).

Disney needs to widen that window to be much longer or this is going to keep happening.

 

[Jeff Adkins]

Hating Larson for that reason is ridiculous but is also unfortunately entirely consistent with other behavior by certain pockets of online trolls who dislike diversity in entertainment in general. The Star Wars "fans" who drove Kelly Marie Tran off social media after The Last Jedi come to mind. People like that seem to be a minority, and yet they are often a very loud minority.

I didn't like The Marvels. But I do find it unfortunate that people like that are getting satisfaction from the fact that this particular MCU movie is the one flopping to such an unprecedented degree.

Indeed. This was the first MCU film I didn't see theatrically on opening weekend in the last 6 1/2 years (Spider-Man: Homecoming was the last one). In my case it had nothing to do with Larson or any kind of political issue. I just wasn't a huge fan of the first film, I haven't watched the series, the trailer never really grabbed me, and it got bad reviews. I also disliked some of the recent MCU films (Doctor Strange, Thor, and Ant-Man). All of that combined just made it a low priority for me. I may still go see it or maybe I'll see it on Disney+. That doesn't mean I don't think certain people are rooting against it for political reasons, but I think there were also a lot of people like myself who just weren't feeling it with this one.

 

[Chuck Mayer]

The D+ window doesn’t help, but the films are failing because Disney keeps missing the boat with respect to storytelling and generating interest. They saturated the market with substandard product right when the superhero genre was about to experience a regression and allowed executives to drive scripts and casting for purely “let’s get some progressive headlines for these decisions.” There is an absolute sameness to their work, whether animated, live action remake, MCU, or Star Wars, and the general audience feels like they are being sold a product, not told a story.

I hardly agree with the “incels” or whatnot, but you cannot look at Disney’s films/TV since 2019 and not see a very clear throughline of ”market this to empower young girls” in almost every decision they have made. And while that sounds good in principle, there is a hollowness to the sentiment that feels both pandering and cookie-cutter when handled as inelegantly as they have done.

While the cultural issues are unique to Disney, the superhero market is something different. Both Captain Marvel and Aquaman made over a billion in 2018/2019 - right in between Infinity War and Endgame. Marvels won’t make 25% of that, and I’m willing to bet Aquaman won’t either. The bloom is off the rose there. It doesn’t mean superhero movies can’t succeed. Guardians 3 did about the same business as 1 and 2, thanks to the remaining stars from the MCU heyday and James Gunn. Spiderverse did pretty well, probably because it was excellent. But the days of superhero movies succeeding with brand loyalty only are clearly over. Deadpool 3 will probably do consistent business, but after that? I’d bet the under.

Honestly, I think Disney needs another renaissance, but I don’t see another Howard Ashman (or Glen Keane) out there. I have no idea how to fix Star Wars, but it appears obvious they don’t either. I don’t mean to sound doom and gloom, but it’s lean years lately. I want Disney to succeed, I promise. But I’m not seeing that as a near-term likelihood.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

The D+ window doesn’t help, but the films are failing because Disney keeps missing the boat with respect to storytelling and generating interest.

I think that’s the bigger issue as well. It’s just industry standard that movies now go from theatrical to home viewing in about 45 days and Disney isn’t doing anything different from anyone else in that regard. The shorter window didn’t hurt Warner’s Barbie or Disney’s Guardians 3.

You could play a movie no one wanted to see exclusively in theaters for a year and that wouldn’t drive more people to see it.

There hadn’t really been any family movies since September’s Paw Patrol film which was aimed at the young end of the family range, and now this weekend there’s Trolls 3, Hunger Games 5 and Wish all going for the same crowd - it went from not enough family product to too much family product like flipping a switch.

I think there’s a larger existential issue at play as well - there is simply too much content being produced for too many platforms simultaneously. Some of that is due to the logjam of stuff that couldn’t be completed or released as originally scheduled due to the pandemic. But the thing is, you can make more movies, you can make more shows, but you can’t increase the number of hours in a day and you can’t give everyone in the audience a raise, and people still need to find the time and money to use towards viewing all this stuff.

 

[Colin Jacobson]

Disney needs to widen that window to be much longer or this is going to keep happening.

Disney needs to make better animated movies or this is going to keep happening.

 

[Jake Lipson]

Disney needs to widen that window to be much longer or this is going to keep happening.

They did widen the window for Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny and it didn't matter. It isn't arriving on Disney+ until December, which is a much longer turnaround time than their other titles this year. But the film still finished with only $381 million worldwide.

It should be noted that a lot of smaller movies would be delighted with a worldwide gross of $381 million. Some people were interested in seeing it. But Indiana Jones is not a small movie, and those people were not enough to justify its insane production budget.

Disney needs to make better animated movies or this is going to keep happening.

I'd remove the word "animated" from your statement only because this is also affecting most of Disney's live-action titles this year.

 

[benbess]

According to the site The Numbers, the production cost for The Marvels was $274 million.

The Marvels (2023) - Financial Information

Financial analysis of The Marvels (2023) including budget, domestic and international box office gross, DVD and Blu-ray sales reports, total earnings and profitability.

www.the-numbers.com

I read somewhere that there was around a $50 million dollar incentive given by the British gov't to the production, but I also read that there were reshoots and new fx this year that added to the budget. Anyway, maybe it was around $250 million if you count studio overhead, but then you need to add at least $100 million for advertising, meaning the total cost of the production was around $350 million. Right now it looks like The Marvels will make a worldwide box office of around $200 million when the theatrical release finishes. But since only about 60% of that gets back to Disney, that means revenues of around $120 million. It'll also earn some money from streaming and home video, but when all is said and done the math still makes it look like a loss of about $200 million for just this one movie.

The bigger issue we've been talking about sometimes is the high costs of movies. Movies that need worldwide box office of $600 million to break even only make sense to me once in a while, not for every release. The losses for Wish look to be around the same size. Dial of Destiny was also a box office dud relative to costs. It seems like Bob Iger's retrenchment and cost cutting are likely to accelerate as a result of these frequent box office bombs relative to costs.

Over at Disney's Fox they were celebrating the "economical" $80 million movie The Creator, but that one lost money too. Just cutting the budget doesn't solve the problem. Just saying the obvious, but they need both lower costs and better screenplays.