2008 MLB Thread (1 Viewer)

[Brian Perry]

Cubbies are looking good...though the bullpen is prone to regular implosions. My long-shot prediction is that Jeff Samardzija will be the closer by playoff time.

 

[Jason Seaver]

Yeah, Manny's a flake and a headcase. I'm just saying that anyone who gets too happy about dispatching a talented but difficult-to-handle player should look at the history, as it's not generally favorable.

 

[Mike Frezon]

It's a fascinating comparison...because they are both certainly among the most talented players of their day (with Ruth it may not even be arguable).

I guess another difference is that Manny's teammates always used to support him when he went about things differently...because he always produced on the field. That certainly stopped being the case this time about...from the complete indifference on the basepaths (when he even deigned to run to first) to his taking himself out of games to the at-bat against Mariano.

I honestly think Manny could have survived in Boston after the incident with the traveling secretary...but when your teammates feel you've let them down...goodbye, Charlie. They'll have your back if you have theirs.

I've never heard any stories of Ruth dogging it or intentionally "not playing" to prove a point or make a statement. And that may be the over-arching difference in the two cases.

Whereas Ruth maybe didn't have to go (it may have been management excuses to cover their tracks), Manny may have written his own ticket with his mutinous behavior.

I dunno. I wonder who'll write the first book about it all? Shaughnessy?

Oh. And I have every expectation that Manny will put up excellent numbers in LA and wherever he plays next year. But I'm not sure he would have continued to put up good numbers in Boston this season.

At least we picked up a pretty good player for him in a stretch-run rather than get nothing for him if we kept him and didn't pick up his option next year.

 

[Jason Seaver]

Oh, Ruth's behavior was far worse than Manny's - he would literally abandon the team to participate in barnstorming games.

 

[Mike Frezon]

Hmmm. That's not good.

And somehow they still managed to win those World Series with him?! I guess the comparison may be apt after all!

 

[Jason Seaver]

It's not a perfect comparison - Ruth, a singular force entering the prime of his career, was probably the single least replaceable player in baseball in 1919; a 36-year-old Manny Ramirez is obviously not quite at his level. Still, there are a couple of points to be remembered:

The first point is that in baseball, because of the one-on-one nature of the game, team chemistry is insanely overrated, and downgrading the raw talent of your team so that they'll get along better is almost always a fool's errand. Boston arguably hasn't done that here, at least not like they did in 1919; when Bay's defensive and baserunning value is added to his hitting, he's a pretty close approximation of Manny's total value. The Sox have still had to pay a price for it, though - they're paying most of Manny's salary in L.A. and Hansen and Moss could have turned into something useful (one way or another). I would have to be a lot more certain that Manny is hurting the team on the field than the whisper campaigns have implied to justify taking that hit.

The second is that crowing about such moves and taking the moral high ground can be really damn hubristic. I don't buy into CHB's curse nonsense, but will anyone deny that the American League in the 1920s would have been substantially different if Frazee and company had kept Ruth? Those quotes show the same pattern that we're seeing now (and saw in '04): Ownership/management badmouthing a superstar on the way out the door, a press that relies on them for their livelihood parroting it, and fans accepting it even though it doesn't make sense and reflects badly on them.

 

[Mike Frezon]

I've been meaning to read Leigh Montville's recent bio on Ruth.

Have you?

Instead, I'm running roughshod through David McCullough's Adams bio for a second time...having just watched the mini-series. I want to re-check where they took license with the accounts of the book. It seems many!

 

[Walter C]

That was truly pathetic last night. The Phillies bats falling silent, and would have been shut out, if not for a controversal call.

And what was Charlie Manuel thinking, taking Jamie Moyer out after the 5th inning?

And I had a bad feeling the broadcast jinx would eventually catch up to Moyer, being unbeaten against the Marlins.

 

[TonyD]

broadcast jinx?
they mention it every time he pitches against them.
eventually he was going to lose the them. no jinx there.

moyer was near 100 pitches, it's the way of baseball now.
100 pitches and thats it.

your right though the offense has been awful for 2 months.
since they scored 20 in st. louis it has been
almost not there.

did you get to see the repaly of that homer yet.
another blown homer call for umps.

if they used logic they could have figured out is hit the fence on the side of the pole
just from the angle of the bounce.
if it hit that side of the pole it would have bounced to the left not the right.

i'll take it though.
he has 7 homers the last couple weeks.

oh and has anyone seen jimmy rollins.
and it's time for Harry to stop calling him j-roll .

 

[Walter C]

I know, everyone eventually loses or misses. It just gets annoying when those types of stats get shoved down our throats.

I was at the game, and did not really see where that "home run" ball hit. It wasn't until I saw the highlights on Baseball Tonight, when I got home.

Whoever came up with the idea of taking a pitcher out after throwing a certain amount of pitches, should be beamed for that. The whole concept is asinine.

 

[EricW]

i'm sure Tommy Lasorda would agree

 

[TonyD]

beamed






or

beaned

 

[Mike Frezon]

Not so sure, though, about Sandy Koufax...

 

[EricW]

or Fernando, or Hershiser, etc...

 

[Mike Frezon]

Ya know...I was posting in this thread back in April that Tampa Bay looked really good this season.

...but enough's enough already! When is that fade going to come?!?

They were down 7-3 to the Indians this afternoon going into the bottom of the ninth and end up winning the game 10-7...without registering an out in the 9th!

 

[EricW]

i'm watching the Yankees/Rangers game tonight on ESPN... Erin Andrews is WOW.

 

[Mike Frezon]

Without a doubt.

She seems to really enjoy covering the Yankees, too.

The YES network has its own knockoff of Erin Andrews: Kimberly Jones.



But Erin is in a class all by herself. She was running around the warning track of Yankee Stadium for All-Star weekend coverage in major-league high heels.

 

[TonyD]

ooh, that is not a flattering pic of the YES woman.
got one that is ..... um, less, uh....long face/ giant head-y?

 

[EricW]

in misc baseball musings, i was just looking at the expanded standings at si.com and i had no idea the AL did ~that~ well against the NL this year...
SI.com - MLB - Standings
of the 14 AL teams, only 2 had a losing record in interleague play. of the 16 NL teams, only 3 had winning records.

 

[TonyD]

no different then any other year.
maybe a bit better then usual but the AL annually beats up on the NL.