2007 MLB Season (1 Viewer)

[Brian Perry]

MVP voting will be interesting.

My picks, in order:

AL
Ortiz
Rodriguez
Ordonez

NL
Holliday
Utley
Fielder

 

[TonyD]

utley?

you mean Rollins dont you.

rollins came up huge down the stretch with a big hit nearly every game.
utley was the prime candidate before he got hurt but rollins has been doing it all season.

look at his stats.

first player with more then 30 homers steals and doubles and 20 or more triples EVER.

rollins is the mvp.

also ortiz is a dh, he wont get mvp especially this year, and especially considering the season a-rod had.
a-rod will be mvp.

red sox almost blew it this season and ortiz didnt do anything special to stand out from other mvp candidates, down the stretch.

 

[Evan Case]

Phinally!

Evan

 

[Chris]

I can't see by any stretch how to deny A-Rod his due. The Yankees should be remembering his early season heroics when he was the only damn thing producing and getting them runs (and wins). Take off the games where A-Rod had a game-winning hit/HR, and they'd be -21 games by my count.

 

[Mike Frezon]

I'd vote for A-Rod and Rollins for their respective league's MVPs.

And Peavy & Beckett for the Cy Young awards.

 

[Brian Perry]

On second thought, I would go with A-Rod and Holliday.

 

[Shane Martin]

A-Rod and Holliday here. Colorado was carried on it's back by that guy meanwhile Rollins had much more help.

Philly fan is coming out of the woodwork.

 

[Philip Hamm]

If Rollins doesn't get the MVP, then everybody voting should be punched in the face.

 

[Scott_J]

This one, I'm not so sure about.
Just kidding, I've come around and jumped on the Beckett Bandwagon.

 

[Mike Frezon]

But, you know what? I'm not gonna be too surprised if he doesn't win it. I'm still smarting from Pedro losing the '02 Cy Young to Barry Zito. Granted, it was one of the closest races in a long time...but there's no way Pedro shouldn't have won that award.

 

[Kirk Tsai]

I find this to be a difficult statement to understand. Reasonable minds can easily differ here. It's much easier to argue that Peavy deserves the NL Cy Young than Rollins for NL MVP. Rollins has had a very fine season indeed, but it's not an overwhelmingly dominate season that should end debate.

The overly emphasized 20-20-20-20 stat line is undeniably tremendously difficult, but doesn't necessarily equate to being tremendously effective. A dangerous and disruptive hitter Rollins is, but his .344 OBP is being overlooked. The NL league average was .334, and the Phillies as a team had a .354 OBP; as a matter of getting on base, Rollins was only an average major leaguer. It's certainly true that not every player needs to draw a ton of walks to be a good player--Ichiro is another example--but walks certainly don't hurt. Utley, through his high batting average, and Howard, through his ability to get walks, both had significantly higher OBPs (.410 and .392, respectively). Holliday is another case. He led all baseball in total bases (2 more than Rollins), and boasts a .340/.405/.606 line, all significantly better than Rollins. If we're looking at the subjective, how they and their team did down the stretch performance (a notion I dislike but will address anyways), then take the following:

In September,
Holliday posted an insane .367/.448/.796 line for a 1.244 OPS
Rollins posted .298/.333/.542

Rockies went 20-9, finishing hot with 13-4
Phillies went 17-11, and finished hot with 13-4

I would vote for Holliday over Rollins, but I actually think this is a closer call than I've made out so far. Rollins plays at SS, and Holliday has splits that suggest Coors Field still gives a big edge (at least to him). Also, I tend to think we put too much emphasis on whether teams make the playoffs, which means David Wright and Prince Fielders's fantastic seasons have much less chance to win. A player like Hanley Ramirez had no chance to begin with because his team did not do well, even though he has been just as good, or better than Rollins. I think Rollins will win, but my main point is that I vehemently disagree with the quoted statement.

I'd go with CC Sabathia for the AL Cy Young. The argument against Sabathia is that he doesn't have as high a strikeout rate as someone like Beckett, making him more dependable on defense, and his batting average against is higher. On the flip side, even with a higher workload, Sabathia issued less walks than Beckett, which tends to equal out Beckett's advantage in my mind. So we end up with a pitcher who pitched 40 more innings than Beckett, but has a better ERA and the same WHIP.

AL MVP: A-Rod
AL Cy Young: Sabathia
AL ROY: Bannister or Pedroia are pretty close at a glance
NL MVP: Holliday
NL CY Young: Peavy
NL ROY: Braun, despite him being arguably the worst defensive player since...

 

[Philip Hamm]

A numbers guy, huh?

I think Rollins deserves the MVP for reasons other than (beyond) numbers.

And yes, club success and intangibles mean a lot for these things. Ryan Zimmerman may have been a great candidate for Rookie of the Year last year, but he didn't win.

 

[TonyD]

numbers mean a lot in baseball. it is a number sport.

but rollins has been the heart of this team al season and the force that has driven this team since jan when he boldly proclaimed the phils the team to beat in the east div.

also the obp is a bit over rated.
look at bonds he gets walked nearly 200 times a season.

rollins is a lead off hitter and and his job is to get on base, yes.
his other job is to score runs and he led the national league in that stat.

he doesnt steal bases just for the stat the way Reyes does and some other players might.

also at short rollins is much more involved with the on field play during the game then an outfielder.

rollins played every game at the toughest postion on the feild.

look at the last game sunday.
he gets on base in the most important game this year, steals second, steals third and scores on a sac fly to get the phils on the board.

 

[Shane Martin]

Phillip,
I'm no Phillie fan but you have to remain somewhat objective here I think. Holliday has the better numbers and literally nobody around him like Rollins.

Rollins has Utley and Howard amongst others helping him. That doesn't diminish how good Rollins is but Holliday is really a one man team almost. Also, what has made the Rockies so good beyond Holliday is their improved pitching.

 

[TonyD]

can you elaborate on this?

seems uncalled for.
so a group a fans cant be excited when the team finally ,makes the playoffs after 14 years.

you may not have noticed but i have had phils logos in my sig for quite a long time.

 

[Mike Frezon]

So, based on the numbers in the link I posted back in #720, Kirk, who would you have voted for for AL Cy Young in '02? It's a similar situation.

Can't...let...go!

 

[Walter C]

He just hates Philly fans, that's all!

 

[Shane Martin]

Sure, just look at this thread and you'll see it's been quiet(except Walter) until the last 10 days.

 

[Kirk Tsai]

Numbers are measurements of performance. The problem with intangibles, is that even if you think Rollins has them in spades, how do you know Holliday doesn't? Just as one would say Rollins is the "catalyst" of the Phillies, so the Colorado fan could say Holliday "anchors" the lineup. What do they mean? Even if I watched all of the Phillies games, and am convinced of his leadership, brilliance, and other mythical powers, have I watched enough of the Rockies to discount Holliday's? It doesn't become an argument, it just becomes us making statements.

If two players had very similar performances, and their team success was comparable as well, then maybe intangibles, whatever they are, could be a tie breaker. To me, Rollins and Holliday did not perform so similarly to get to this stage. But, with consideration of position and defense--both measurable as well, albeit in less agreed upon terms than offense--I think it's a valid debate. For those who don't like to use numbers, you could use it to support your argument: Bill James' Win Shares system puts Holliday and Rollins at a tie.


Mike, I thought Pedro should have won, and still think so. But the situation is different here. Pedro had better rate stats (ERA, WHIP, K/9, K/BB, BAA, etc.) with less innings, whereas Sabathia has close to equal stats (some better, some worse than Beckett) with more innings. The truth is, I think voters over-emphasize on wins, and Zito's big 23 wins loomed large. That could happen here again, as voters might think of Beckett as the only 20 game winner, as if that determined who the better pitcher was.

 

[Mike Frezon]

Exactly. it'll be just "my" luck that the voters this time around won't be so enamored with the "wins" tally and give the award to someone else!

In other words, if Zito gets it in '02 because of wins, well, then, by-gum Beckett better get it in '07 because of most wins! Even though you or I might believe otherwise.