Scott Atwell Star Trek Discussion thread (Series and Films) (4 Viewers)

[Josh Steinberg]

Yeah I'm 10 minutes from CAC - same town. I'm sure we can set something up. Besides, every so often they run a classic SF film. I saw the original Planet of the Apes there back in September.

This hit the sweet spot for me on timing - 7 is too early because parenthood, and 9:30 or 10 is getting out too late when the kids are waking up at 6am whether I’m ready or not. I always like seeing these movies with an appreciative audience.

 

[ScottRE]

Well, not everyone.

That was my exact thought when I read that. The Voyage Home is wayyyyyyy down my list of favorite Trek movies.

 

[ScottRE]

I think I looked the most unforgivably dorky. Everyone else I saw was more subtle about it!

Yeah I think I saw you then. I was surprised there wasn't more of a fan / cosplay turnout. Or more audience interaction.

I have to admit, I was relieved when certain moments went by without laughter. At the same time, disappointed there was no round of cheers when Kirk did his "Khan!" scream. Deforest Kelley got most of the laughs and every "dammit" of his got one!

Felt more like the CAC regulars than Trek fans.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

There was someone near me who giggled every time Shatner spoke (I think she was one of the hands raised for never having seen the movie) and she started to giggle when Kirk makes it to engineering at the end but immediately went silent when Spock turned around inside the chamber to address Kirk.

 

[ScottRE]

Oh, I heard her laugh. It's probably because of that crewmember that's in a questionable position just about at Kirk's waist.

 

[KPmusmag]

Here are two 1971 TV Guide ads for Star Trek in syndication. The first one is representational, but the second one appears to be confused with Lost in Space perhaps (and what is that emblem coming out of the K? Is that supposed to be the shape of the badge insignia?)

It is impressive that the TV stations paid for a half-page ad in TV Guide to promote ST. Was it new to syndication in 1971?

 

[Nelson Au]

Kevin, I recall Star Trek fandom being huge in the 1975 to 76 time period. Of course the series was in full syndication then. What I don’t recall was what was happening in 1971. I’ll have to try to figure that one out.

edit: I recall now schoolmates playing Star Trek in the schoolyard and I’m very sure I had a model of the Enterprise. And a school mate had the Klingon Battlecruiser model, so the series had to have been airing at that time in my area. I was still developing my drawing skills at the time and I recall learning how to draw the Enterprise in side view. I used to draw the engines too low.

Those ads are great that you are showing. The second one looks like amateur artwork by someone who had not really seen Star Trek or had a very limited knowledge of it. Which would be understandable if this was in 1971.

 

[ScottRE]

Yeah that second ad seems like kid's art. Oy vey.

Star Trek hit syndication in NY and PA the Monday after it left NBC in 1969. WPIX 11 in NY ran it in production order the first weekday after Turnabout Intruder aired on the network. But it took a couple of years for it to really take off.

 

[Nelson Au]

This question of when Star Trek TOS first was syndicated really had me curious. I remember seeing it on KTVU channel 2 in the San Francisco Bay Area in my youth. It’s etched on my tongue. I even remember in 1976 as a very young kid, I saw a KTVU camera man filming an event in 1976 and asking him why thy took Star Trek off the air.

I did some searching and found a website that discusses this. The website does show Paramount TV immediately posted ads in Broadcasting Magazine for Star Trek for syndication In 1969! One ad shows KTVU as one station already on board to broadcast the series. This is amazing information to see. Here’s the ads and the website if you‘re interested in reading. The second ad is noted as being printed in August 1969. Amazing.

Star Trek Syndication Advertisements, Circa 1969-1970 - Television Obscurities

A look at four Star Trek syndication advertisements published in Broadcasting magazine between 1969 and 1970.

www.tvobscurities.com

What I had not considered before is that while Star Trek had a following during its initial broadcast on NBC, you have to consider that Paramount TV had a hand to help make it possible for the fandom to explode during syndication.

 

[ScottRE]

Did Harve Bennett really watch all 79 episodes? In some discussions I've had on other forums, there's skepticism over how much research he actually did before taking over the film franchise. Mostly because there's some debate over who Kirk was referring to at the end of Star Trek V:

"I had a brother once....." McCoy and Spock give Jim a look. Off those looks, he continues, "I was lucky, I got him back."

One of the criticisms I've heard over that scene is the ignorance of Kirk's actual late brother. Having not heard anything official from anyone involved, I am of the mind that nobody forgot Sam and that the dialog is very much meant to have you think of Sam when Kirk says it (he specifically references him in the past tense). He then flips it because, as McCoy reiterates, Kirk insisted men like them don't have families. It's a really sweet moment in a film that missed the mark in many ways.

"I had a brother once..."
"Yeah Sam, he was..."
"I was lucky, I got him back."
"Oh shit, you mean me? Jim, that's so sweet!"

Poor Bones, tho.

However, because it IS Star Trek V, very few fans want to give it any credit. As said, Harve Bennett reportedly watched every episode before tackling Star Trek II, which is where he settled on Khan. And William Shatner (while his memories of the series are notoriously bad) was in the episodes referring to his brother and even popped on a phony mustache to play Sam's dead body.

Then it became "I don't believe Bennett watched every episode." Which I find perplexing, because if you look, his films are peppered with references that would only come from someone who did the work and neither Jack Sowards, Bob Sallin nor Nick Meyer ever claimed to.

In Star Trek II, the very first line of dialog references the Gamma Hydra system near the Neutral Zone (The Deadly Years). The "Klingons don't take prisoners" line arguably from the same episode when Romulans were considered until they realized they were using Klingon ship footage. In all of the films, the relationship between the three leads is exactly right, something Roddenberry didn't quite nail in TMP. They even got John Winston back as Kyle! Granted, he was in Space Seed, it was still a semi-regular from the original series whose name was never spoken in that episode.

Okay, points off for the whole "Khan and Chekov" thing but Sulu wasn't in that episode either, which would have left Uhura or Scotty. Or Kyle....which may have been a nice turn for him, but it was a plum role. Uhura screaming with a Ceti Eel in her ear would have been too much and Scotty didn't fit in the role. So Chekov it is.

Star Trek III honestly could not have been written as it was without the writer being familiar with Trek lore and Bennett did that screenplay himself. And, again, if they stuck with Romulans instead of Klingons, the BoP would have made more sense, but since it was established that Klingons and Romulans had some kind of alliance where they swapped warship designs, it worked. They really flew in the face of the "Klingon's not taking prisoners" thing here, but Kruge wanted Genesis, so that's fine. Star Trek IV - Bennett wrote all of the 23rd century scenes and that whole conversation between Spock and Sarek at the end resolved a father/son schism that was dangling since 1967. Sarek's dialog was spot on.

Then Star Trek V, the "tall ship" quote was not a coincidence.

All of the movies have little Easter Eggs that fans would spot and some are obscure enough to show that Harve knew the source material. Considering these films were made my production people who had nothing to do with the original series, the fidelity to the show is impressive (better than some other 80's reunion movies). I find it well within reason that not only did Bennett actually do that work but that Sam was not forgotten in the final bits of dialog in Star Trek V. Other than a prejudice toward Star Trek V, there's little reason to believe otherwise. I mean, why even have the line if they "forgot" Kirk had a brother? I will absolutely die on this hill.

 

[KPmusmag]

That is really fun seeing that Paramount TV ad. I was lucky because both of my parents really liked it so it was just what they tuned in to often. For a while it was on twice in the afternoon, but on different channels. The first broadcast was an L.A. station, I believe channel 13, and that came in clear as a bell, but the second one was on a distant channel and had a bit of snow as they called it then. My Dad had one of those huge arrays on the roof, so we were probably lucky to get that channel at all. I wish I could remember where that broadcast originated.

 

[Neil S. Bulk]

"I had a brother once....." McCoy and Spock give Jim a look. Off those looks, he continues, "I was lucky, I got him back."

From the comic adaptation.

 

[ScottRE]

From the comic adaptation.

View attachment 220323

Yes! I remember that!

 

[Nelson Au]

That is really fun seeing that Paramount TV ad. I was lucky because both of my parents really liked it so it was just what they tuned in to often. For a while it was on twice in the afternoon, but on different channels. The first broadcast was an L.A. station, I believe channel 13, and that came in clear as a bell, but the second one was on a distant channel and had a bit of snow as they called it then. My Dad had one of those huge arrays on the roof, so we were probably lucky to get that channel at all. I wish I could remember where that broadcast originated.

Scott, not to ignore your thread of the films having good continuity with the series, as you’re right, Bennett was good to maintain that.

I’m surprisingly fascinated with the topic of when Star Trek was originally syndicated. Another of those ads I posted above shows that stations who buy Star Trek saw a boost in their ratings. This add is from February 1970.

 

[Osato]

Sony In Talks To Team With Apollo In Bid For Paramount Global

Sony is in talks to join Apollo's bid to acquire Paramount Global.

deadline.com

 

[Wiseguy]

Here are two 1971 TV Guide ads for Star Trek in syndication. The first one is representational, but the second one appears to be confused with Lost in Space perhaps (and what is that emblem coming out of the K? Is that supposed to be the shape of the badge insignia?)

It is impressive that the TV stations paid for a half-page ad in TV Guide to promote ST. Was it new to syndication in 1971?

View attachment 220317
View attachment 220318

That first logo reminds me of the Space: 1999 logo.

 

[Wiseguy]

Yeah, I noticed that, too, when watching that Colbert episode.

I also wonder if it includes the 2-part episode of JAG that introduced the NCIS characters? Or any of the episodes that NCIS characters had in other series they crossed over with.

Probably not. When I made that post, I looked up all the NCIS series on epguides and they added to 999. Generally an episode of a series is a part of that series regardless of what characters appear on it. For example the Hawaii Five-0 (2010) episodes various NCIS characters appeared on weren't counted.

 

[Jack P]

Star Trek III honestly could not have been written as it was without the writer being familiar with Trek lore and Bennett did that screenplay himself. And, again, if they stuck with Romulans instead of Klingons, the BoP would have made more sense, but since it was established that Klingons and Romulans had some kind of alliance where they swapped warship designs, it worked. They really flew in the face of the "Klingon's not taking prisoners" thing here, but Kruge wanted Genesis, so that's fine.

Don't forget the word-word-for word replay of the destruct sequence from "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield."

 

[Wiseguy]

I never much cared for it as it's just another half-baked backdoor pilot episode. It feels like it was shoe-horned into the Star Trek universe because of using the original half-hour episode script (that was not picked up by any network - co-written by Rodenberry so...) as the basis. The TOS cast mostly feels like *they* are the co-stars in this one. Even being integrated into in a TOS episode didn't help as it was still not picked up.

That was the least of my problems with Picard.

I really don't rate any of the original series "last episodes" as season finales simply because they weren't what we call finales. Just episodes that aired last. None of them were great: "Operation: Annihilate!" is the best by default, not because it's good. NBC cut the order back from 30 to 29 so that dictated that. I can't imagine "Turnabout Intruder" being considered anything close to a good "finale" - even worse that it's the last episode of the series. Surprisingly for the era, all three were the final episodes produced each year and not just aired last. A lot of shows just tossed around their order and the last episode aired wasn't the final episode filmed.

TNG's season enders all felt like finales - except "Shades of Grey" which just felt like a "crap we're out of money" sacrifice play.

I will say this, "Turnabout Intruder" is ridiculously over the top and fun.

It was mentioned in a book ("Star Trek Lives!"?)that there were 26 episodes planned for the third season (William Shatner was set to direct one of the last two) and DURING the filming of Turnabout Intruder it was announced that the final two were dropped by NBC because of ratings. I'm sure someone here will say it's not true but it would show Turnabout wasn't planned to be the last episode.

 

[Wiseguy]

That's because it was a backdoor pilot.

The script was co-written by Roddenberry and not a single network commissioned a pilot when that half-hour script was shopped. Roddenberry being Roddenberry just reworked it as a Star Trek episode - after all, he'd get more money that way.

Backdoor pilots are *always* episodes in which the stars of the series in which they appear are little more than guest stars on their own show. I can't think of a single backdoor pilot I've though was worth a repeat viewing - outside this one simply because it's Star Trek and *does* incorporate the main cast more than most such episodes. But it's just not well written, has lots of logic holes, and when Gary Seven and his cast show up it stops being Star Trek.

Green Acres did TWO backdoor pilots at the end of the series, the only two episodes of the series not directed by Richard L. Bare (other than the pilot which was more of a clip show).