UHD Review A Few Words About A few words about...™ - The Departed -- in 4k UHD (1 Viewer)

[sbjork]

Yup.
You’re right dead on.

It has to be 2.
Edited on lightworks editing system via “Shotonwhat”
Digital Intermediate created at 2K Then release prints struck from that DI.

They scanned the 2K DI at 4K For this release, cleaned it up, brought it to life.

it must’ve been a hell of a lot easier for Thelma Shoonmaker to edit and craft the film digitally, it shows.

I think the mystery has been solved.

DI was scanned in 4K and reworked for this release
The press release led to confusion.

all being said, it looks great.

View attachment 220695 View attachment 220696

It's important to remember that ShotOnWhat is user-generated content, no different than iMDB. Could be accurate, and I have used information from them in the past, but there's a lot of stuff on that site that I haven't been able to verify through any other source (save perhaps for iMDB, but that's user-generated content backing up user-generated content).

Could well be accurate in this case, but it's usually best to apply a grain of salt to what they say unless you can back it up elsewhere.

 

[MarkantonyII]

I believe there are three possibilities here:

1) It's an upscale from the 2K DI.
2) It's a new 4K scan of the film-out from the original 2K DI.
3) The studio went back to the negative and built a new 4K DI.

If I'm not mistaken, #3 often requires rebuilding the entire feature. Because the movie was originally finished on the DI, that typically means negative was never conformed to the final cut and would have to be re-assembled from the original editing logs.

None of these options are unprecedented, though the third would certainly be the most expensive.

There's another "hybrid" possibility, (or 3a!) as i believe occurred with the 4K of "The Martian" (and possibly others). Non-SFX shots were re-scanned from Negative in native 4K. The SFX shots were upscaled from 2K>4K. The final 4K master is a hybrid of the two.

 

[Wes Candela]

It's important to remember that ShotOnWhat is user-generated content, no different than iMDB. Could be accurate, and I have used information from them in the past, but there's a lot of stuff on that site that I haven't been able to verify through any other source (save perhaps for iMDB, but that's user-generated content backing up user-generated content).

Could well be accurate in this case, but it's usually best to apply a grain of salt to what they say unless you can back it up elsewhere.

Very true…grains of spice.
I like the website & find it useful when they have what I’m looking for, however more often than not…they don’t.

It seems to be pretty accurate concerning this specific film, I think.

Would love an alternative ”end all, be all” source to go to online A true database with confirmed information on acquisition information, as they offer.
(lenses, cameras, digital/celluloid, finishing systems utilized)

I find all that info incredibly valuable and interesting… but I have yet to find “One Site To Rule Them All”

 

[Wes Candela]

There's another "hybrid" possibility, (or 3a!) as i believe occurred with the 4K of "The Martian" (and possibly others). Non-SFX shots were re-scanned from Negative in native 4K. The SFX shots were upscaled from 2K>4K. The final 4K master is a hybrid of the two.

Right, very true.
considering this is a 2006 release the info seems to match up with what that site is showing

 

[Kyle_D]

American Cinematographer would be the most reliable resource for details on the cinematography and original 2K DI process. Unfortunately, I don't have a subscription with access to their article on The Departed.

I highly doubt a new scan of the OCN or any film-out was done for this release, but I suppose it's possible the OCN was scanned in 4K in 2006 before the 2K DI finishing process, and this re-master re-conformed to the original 4K scan files at full resolution. In all honesty, though, this release didn't look any more highly resolved to me than the blu-ray. The (not insubstantial) improvements were more in the compression, less obvious processing, and the new grade, which leads me to still believe this is most likely an upscale (still sourced from a scan of the OCN).

 

[Wes Candela]

American Cinematographer would be the most reliable resource for details on the cinematography and original 2K DI process. Unfortunately, I don't have a subscription with access to their article on The Departed.

I highly doubt a new scan of the OCN or any film-out was done for this release, but I suppose it's possible the OCN was scanned in 4K in 2006 before the 2K DI finishing process, and this re-master re-conformed to the original 4K scan files at full resolution. In all honesty, though, this release didn't look any more highly resolved to me than the blu-ray. The (not insubstantial) improvements were more in the compression, less obvious processing, and the new grade, which leads me to still believe this is most likely an upscale (still sourced from a scan of the OCN).

i agree. Completely.
love new disc/4K release.

However, I’ve haven’t picked up on any uptick in detail When looking at Blu-ray and this 4K.

definitely wider color gamut being taken advantage of.

but I’m not a professional at this and I don’t have a calibrated television or display

 

[Bartman]

Well as usual this thread will cause me to pull the Blu-ray out and rewatch. Influence is one of the positive aspects of social media!

 

[Wes Candela]

Well as usual this thread will cause me to pull the Blu-ray out and rewatch. Influence is one of the positive aspects of social media!

Well put @Bartman
Like minded people with similar interests, especially the caliber of knowledge I’ve gained from this site has had a massive ”Influence“ on my perspective many times.

 

[sbjork]

American Cinematographer would be the most reliable resource for details on the cinematography and original 2K DI process. Unfortunately, I don't have a subscription with access to their article on The Departed.

I highly doubt a new scan of the OCN or any film-out was done for this release, but I suppose it's possible the OCN was scanned in 4K in 2006 before the 2K DI finishing process, and this re-master re-conformed to the original 4K scan files at full resolution. In all honesty, though, this release didn't look any more highly resolved to me than the blu-ray. The (not insubstantial) improvements were more in the compression, less obvious processing, and the new grade, which leads me to still believe this is most likely an upscale (still sourced from a scan of the OCN).

I do have a subscription. I'll take a look when I get a chance.

They tend to focus the most on the cameras, lenses, and/or stocks, but don't always drill too deeply into the DI process. We'll see.

 

[Wes Candela]

I do have a subscription. I'll take a look when I get a chance.

They tend to focus the most on the cameras, lenses, and/or stocks, but don't always drill too deeply into the DI process. We'll see.

I have a subscription. I just found the article from October 2006.
Called “DEEP COVER”

this is a nice meaty article
Let me look through it when I have a chance

UPDATE:
OK, I made the time and I just read the article
see below… Info in here is very helpful

 

[Wes Candela]

Ok
Here are some key excerpts from an Interview in American Cinematographer ( October, 2006)
On shooting Martin Scorsese’s “THE DEPARTED” with the late, MASTER cinematographer
…Michael Ballhaus:

Shot in Super 35, this is the first film Ballhouse created a digital intermediate for.

The below information should provide answers to many of the questions. The group of us have been asking I hope.

The below information should provide answers to many of the questions. The group of us have been asking, I hope and I hope it is helpful

BTW…
American Cinematographer is an amazing publication, especially for photography nuts like myself. I highly recommend it as it was recommended to me by the great Mr. @Robert Harris
Thank you Mr Harris.

Below are quotes from the interview directly relating to our discussion as per per the filming and digital intermediate usage.

As DOP Michael Bauhaus died in 2017, we lost a master. He was not there to oversee this disc transfer, but film editor Thema Shoonmaker is an essential part of Scorsese’s team.

I would say we got what Scorsese he wanted us to get from this 4K release.

I for one I’m very happy with the results

(Now…if we could just get the 4-hour-plus cut of Gangs Of New York, I could die a happy man )


“I’m impressed with the new vision 2 [Kodak film] stocks. I especially like 5218, which is a great stock. It’s very fast, with nice definition in the shadow areas. What Kodak has done over the last few years is so good that it’s hard to think that in the future… We might not use FILM anymore. I hope FILM doesn’t go away too fast.”

“The Departed was filmed in Super 35mm 2.35:1, which Scorsese and Ballhaus use to protect their compositions during the inevitable reframing for television broadcast. "By framing everything in 4-perf with a common topline, you don't destroy the whole composition of the image," he explains, pointing out that the digital intermediate (DI) has eliminated the optical step in post that used to compromise Super 35's image quality.”

At press time, Ballhaus was preparing to finish The Departed with a DI — his first — at Technicolor Digital Intermediates with colorist Stephen Nakamura. (HD dailies for the production were handled by Sam Daly at Technicolor New York.)”

TECHNICAL SPECS


Super 35mm 2.35:1

Arricam Studio; Arri 435, 235

Arri/Zeiss Master Primes;

Zeiss Variable Primes, Ultra Primes;

Angenieux zoom lenses

Kodak Vision2 500T 5218, 200T 5217,

Expression 500T 5229

Digital Intermediate​

 

[Bartman]

Well as usual this thread will cause me to pull the Blu-ray out and rewatch. Influence is one of the positive aspects of social media!

I rewatched The Departed Blu-ray this morning. For a VC1 low bit rate transfer, the picture quality is impressive when viewed on a 55" LG OLED. It has a gritty look, just like Boston, with very few compression artifacts (motion, black crush or macro blocking). Some interior scenes are a little soft & faces are pale but that's consistent with living in the Northeast. Warner obviously took their time with this transfer. I enjoyed rewatching this movie.

 

[sbjork]

Like I said, ASC tends to gloss over the DI stage, especially when things were shot on film. I did just scroll through the credits on it, and there was definitely some digital compositing done, which would have been rendered at 2K along with the rest of the DI. Small VFX crew, though; less than a third the size of the crew on The Wolf of Wall Street, and way, way less than the one that worked on Hugo. I'm assuming that the total VFX shot count was relatively small. So it would have been an easy film to rescan out the negative for non-VFX shots and upscale the composite work. Not saying that actually happened in this case, but it certainly wouldn't have been as challenging as most of Scorsese's later films. The DI still exists as reference material for regrading the negative footage. As a Best Picture winner, it's certainly possible that they might have put that kind of effort into it.

 

[Wes Candela]

Like I said, ASC tends to gloss over the DI stage, especially when things were shot on film. I did just scroll through the credits on it, and there was definitely some digital compositing done, which would have been rendered at 2K along with the rest of the DI. Small VFX crew, though; less than a third the size of the crew on The Wolf of Wall Street, and way, way less than the one that worked on Hugo. I'm assuming that the total VFX shot count was relatively small. So it would have been an easy film to rescan out the negative for non-VFX shots and upscale the composite work. Not saying that actually happened in this case, but it certainly wouldn't have been as challenging as most of Scorsese's later films. The DI still exists as reference material for regrading the negative footage. As a Best Picture winner, it's certainly possible that they might have put that kind of effort into it.

ASC does a remarkable job on explaining lenses, filters, film stocks…cinematography. It’s a treasure of a publication.
yes, departed didn’t seem to have much VFX work going on in it.
on another note:
what I found fascinating in the article was Blallhaus explaining how he crafted and shot a bunch of Scorsese‘s trademark “pan and zoom in “ shots for this film.
I read that and wondered wait a minute. I don’t remember very many of those in this movie.

and Ballhaus went on to explain those shots were cut from the film, and he was a little saddened by that.
that this film was edited differently than the other projects he worked on with Scorsese

quicker, you’re watching for 2 1/2 hours and it feels like an hour.
I wish I could see those shots.
they did not go into the digital intermediate process, besides mentioning it twice, but in 2006, this was a new process.
really a great publication and a great article on Seminole movie in Scorsese‘s career