vinyl enthusiasts: turntable information request (1 Viewer)

[Kevin T]

recently, i've been considering purchasing a turntable. i admit that i have 0 experience in vinyl but i've always been intrigued by the prospect. i found this turntable on crutchfield inadvertently while searching for other things:

[url=http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/products/2002/033/l033DP29F-f-1.jpeg] [/url]

now, i know it's not gonna give me audiophile level performance, but it will introduce me to the world of vinyl on the cheap. the fact that it includes a phono preamp is a big plus in my book. any vinyl enthusiast here have experience or thoughts? for reference, my system consists of:

aragon soundstage
aragon palladium ii monoblocks
aragon 8008x3b
pioneer dv-c302d
mirage frx-7 speakers
panamax max 2000 line conditioner
soon to be installed 20 amp dedicated line

kevin t

 

[Philip Hamm]

Vinyl was the major medium of music delivery formuch of my life. I still have hundreds of records that I spin, and sometimes I even buy new releases on vinyl for nostalgia (and often they're cheaper than the CD versions). Vinyl to my ears sounds fine for the most part. It's very high maintenance.

If you don't already have a collection of vinyl my advice is to not bother. Just enjoy the formats that you've got. Unless of course you have a line on a big box of old records for real cheap and feel like having some fun....

 

[Michael Yung]

Kevin, I was in a similar position as you are now about 4 to 5 months ago. I was also looking into purchasing a turntable becuase of all the raves about how good the format can be. Luckily, one of my boss had an turntable he wanted to get rid of and so I was more then happy to take it off of his hands. The turntable I got was nothing special, it was a Pioneerpurchased in the mid-'80s. It didn't have a build-in preamp so I just picked something up at CC. I also got a few LPs from him b/c I didn't have any of my own. I hooked everything up and even installed a new cartridge and let's just say I was not blowned away by the sound. Basically I found the LP to sound a little warmer and less fatiging as CD but it wasn't as good as my SACD collections.

There might be a number of reasons why I found my LP playback lacking. One, my setup was just plain lousy. If I had a better turntable and phono preamp, maybe the sound would be better. Two, the LPs I was listening to are dirty or just worned out. So maybe an investment in new 180g LPs and a good LP cleaner might help. And the list goes on and on and soon you are in tweaker's heaven b/c the possibilities of why you are not getting that perfect sound are endless.

At this time I have scrached my itch for vinyl. Unless I am ready for a major investment into the format, I am just going to stick w/ CDs and SACDs. So getting back to your original question about that particular turntable you're looking at on Crutchfield. My suggestion is not to bother. I think the one you have included in the post is a Sony and these are available at BestBuy as well. Not exactly the highest quality table IMHO so I doubt it would yield very good sound. At the very least, check out the Music Hall tables if you're looking at something less expansive. Or if you don't want the hassle, then go with a high res format like SACD or DVD-A. Hope this helps.

 

[Rachael B]

I got my current Denon turntable, that will walk all over that So-ny POS, for $35 at a flea market. Look for a great used table. They're out there. Best wishes!

 

[Kevin T]

rachel:

actually that picture is of a denon dp-29f so it's not a sony. i don't think i'd ever again considering any piece of sony audio equipment outside of their upper end sacd players. i think though that i might just follow everyone's advice and not persue the issue as i have 0 vinyl and a ton of money already invested into my system so i don't think it would be very cost effective to take on a new medium at this time. thanks all.

kevin t

 

[Jack Gilvey]

Looks like it'll spin records for you, but to judge analog on something like that, or on the "badly setup mid-80's Pioneer with two dirty records" mentioned above, is folly.

 

[Mike Darksyde]

Records and turntables are a major investment, the degree of difference between a belt drivin 135 dollar table and an audiofile or professional DJ table are miles apart.

Even with a low grade CD player compared to a high grade the level of difference between the two sounds is not like night and day. With turntables this is the case.

You have an analogue signal being read by a diamond and the vibration of the grooves running across a diamond through electronics out from a grounded turntable getting amplified and then output to your receiver. There are soo many thing that must be tuned, set correctly and kept clean that it is quite a chore. I am a DJ, and I have mid grade turntables for audio, for DJing they are the best...Technic Mk3d 1210's. (1200's) These are what 90% of all Dj's use. These tables cost about 500 dollars, and that does not count the cartridge, which will run anywhere from 50 to 200 dollars. And a Needle which needs to be replaced for about 60 dollars.

The sound quality on these tables is truly good, but not great, and any lower quality, would not really be worth the investment, becuase you will not get anymore out of your wax than you would a CD. However if you wanted to go for the investment, vinyl sounds amazing in my personal opinion, but does degrade over time.

Also vinyl is moody, breakable, heavy and takes up tons of space. I have a closet filled with records and I have no where else to put them stacks and stacks and they are just get in the way.

 

[Saurav]

I have a closet filled with records and I have no where else to put them stacks and stacks and they are just get in the way.

I'll take them off your hands

 

[Rachael B]

Kevin, you ought to walk through a few used record stores and decide wheather you need a turntable. There's so much music out-of-print that I love. I couldn't do without one. You can find ace turntables for cheap if you look around the dark corners. Then you'd have the money for a terrific cartdridge. If you're happy with what's currently sold on little silver discs, well, you don't need a record player but....????

 

[Michael Cucka]

Kevin -

The posts by Jack and Mike are dead on - to finally hear what vinyl truly has to offer, you need to commit to more than just a basic TT. Your setup suggests you like the higher-end so I wouldn't think you'll be pleased with the Denon TT Crutchfield sells.

Analog/vinyl is a perfect example of why audiophiles tweak their systems - every step, every change will effect your playback more than anything in the digital realm - and not at all subtlely!

I started with and entry level, used Rega for about $400 and now have a vinyl front-end that cost a couple of grand - and I'm not turning back

It's truly worth the investment of time and money it requires - I hope you take the plunge and find out for yourself!

 

[Scott Oliver]

Hey Mike I live in Austin, you could send a few of your LP's my way, classical, jazz, and blues in particular.

I can give them a good home!
Nottingham Analogue Spacedeck
Hadcock tonearm and Benz cartridge

 

[Philip Hamm]

Kevin, you ought to walk through a few used record stores and decide wheather you need a turntable. There's so much music out-of-print that I love. I couldn't do without one.

SO TRUE!!!!

Personally I'm ultra happy with a cheap mid-90s Denon DP7f with a (relatively) new cartridge in it. My systems are far from audiophile, though, so maybe I don't know what I'm missing. As far as I'm concerned vinyl sounds just fine. However, I have a large collection that I too k year accumulating, I don't know about starting from scratch now.

 

[Kevin T]

i'm well aware that a better turntable will offer better performace but i'm just no 100% certain that it's an investment i'd like to make. the denon would only act as an introduction. if i felt it were worth it, i would invest in a better table such as a music hall mmf-9 or a vpi scout. also, there's the fact that i have to purchase a multitude of vinyl as well so it would eventually become a serious investment. the problem i have is that there are a multitude of other things i intend to purchase. within the next year, i intend to purchase:

a front projector (infocus dlp)
screen (haven't researched enough to know)
gershman acoustics avant garde rx-20
gershman acoustics ccx
audio research sp16l tube preamp

kevin t

 

[Jack Gilvey]

i'm well aware that a better turntable will offer better performace but i'm just no 100% certain that it's an investment i'd like to make. the denon would only act as an introduction.

Understandable, but such an introduction would as likely turn you off as entice you, rather like buying a kid a cheap, unplayable guitar "just to see if he likes it". Don't expect to find out why analog is alive 20 years after its "death" through that rig.
Do you have a good analog dealer from whom you might borrow something?

 

[Kevin T]

jack:

there's quite a dearth of analog dealers in this area. the only reputable dealer in my town has switched over to a mid-fi to hi-fi home theater setup. they no longer carry tube amps and i don't recall them ever selling turntables. the closet dealer would be in new orleans and they're about 2 hours away. i think i'll hold off for now until i can spend a bit more money on a turntable. perhaps something in the $500 range would be a better introduction.

kevin t

 

[Rachael B]

Kevin, my Denon turtable, circa 1983, was an expensive one back then. You can find a cheap door into analog. So many people have abandoned it. You just have to be a bit persistent. Flea markets, pawn shops, yard sales, and electronics repair shops are places to track down turntable bargains. They're out there for the finding....

 

[Kevin T]

thanks, rachel. i think i might try hitting up the flea market and pawn shops since i'm off tomorrow. hopefully some of these places will be open.

kevin t

 

[Jack Gilvey]

i think i'll hold off for now until i can spend a bit more money on a turntable. perhaps something in the $500 range would be a better introduction.

I think that's a good idea, as well as the suggestion to go used.
Along those lines, I have a Rega P2 along with a Stanton 881S cart. on order that my dealer assures me is better suited to the rock I listen to than others I was willing to pay appreciably more for. It should fall into that price range when all done, I'll let you know how it turns out.

 

[greg_t]

Anyone here use the MusicHall MMF-7 or know anyone that has one? I've heard good things, and am thinking about getting one.

 

[Scott_N]

The MMF-7 was the table I wanted until I heard the Nottingham Horizon which I think has better detail and bass.
It retails for $1000 with a Rega RB250 arm.