Tweakers: Best Toshiba Rptv? (1 Viewer)

[Michael_V]

After several years of bliss with my old very tweaked out TW40X81, it is time to upgrade. While I have toyed with the idea of going plasma screen, DLP, or even high-end LCD, I keep coming back to CRT as the gold standard display device. And I like the colorimetry of the Toshibas.

Since my last purchase, though, I know Toshiba and other manufacturers have experimented with upconversion of 480p signals, resulting in lost resolution and fine detail and increased artifacts.

My question, particularly for those who push their equipment (like Michael_TLV, Errol, and Chuck Williams), is:

Which of the current Toshiba models do you recommend for good colorimetry, native 480p, and overall tweakability?

 

[Michael TLV]

Greetings

If we stay in the Toshiba Realm, then all of the sets are the same. Tweak approach is the same ... just bigger and bigger. Very tweakable and easy to do.

colorimetry ... same.

480P native ... doesn't happen.

Since Toshibas don't meet your three criteria, may need to look elsewhere.

Mits ... tweakable ... somewhat harder but doable.
... better colorimetry after tweaked.
does 480P native.

Panny ... tweakable ... slightly harder ...
slightly better grayscale response ... not necessarily colour.

Does 480P native ... and cheaper than Mits.

Regards

 

[Michael_V]

480P native ... doesn't happen.

Michael_TLV,

Thanks for the quick reply but how disheartening! This forced upconversion is across the board on the Toshibas? This is new, is it not? I am fairly certain my old set did not resort to this kind of impolite behavior!

I may have to look elsewhere and start my tweak database from scratch again. Sigh. . . .

Any current favorites?

 

[Michael TLV]

Greetings

Toshiba introduced the 540P upconversion in the 81 series last year. Cost saving feature.

Current favourites are:

Panasonic (But usually really mediocre out of box and need HD signal to fully tweak it right)
Sony

Hitachi (But am pursuing an issue with these sets that may plunge it to the bottom of the list if I don't like what I find.)

Mits is not here because I do not get enough of them these days. Mits people gravitate to the perceived Mits specialized calibrators.

Regards

 

[MichaelFusick]

Your also in Canada where Mits is not popular or sold.

How about sony?

480P native.

Decent upconversion.

Just that ringing to no end...

 

[Jack Briggs]

You know, it's kinda funny: This thread tells me we are now at the stage where we can talk about the "good old days" of early HD-capable displays. Anyone here remember when the TW40X81 was just about the most talked-about RPTV at HTF?

 

[Ed St. Clair]

This thread reminds me of "The Good New Day's", were HTF is on top of every liability of HD.

 

[Jan Strnad]

I wouldn't let upconversion stand in the way if you're pleased with other aspects of the Tosh. Check out Michael TLV's updated article on upconversion on Tosh for some screen shots. Personally, I think it's become a non-issue. I prefer the color on the Tosh to, well, everything else I've seen, and that means more to me (even though I have the older model) than uppermost-end resolution that you aren't likely to find on a DVD anyway.

YMMV, of course.

Jan

 

[Michael_V]

You know, it's kinda funny: This thread tells me we are now at the stage where we can talk about the "good old days" of early HD-capable displays.

Ah, yes! I often look back wistfully on those good old days! I remember how excited everyone was about the extra content on the Ghostbusters DVD, and the furor that surrounded the "FREETOSHIBADVD" codes at reel.com. I got the first Austin Powers for $4 shipped and even got $1-something back when I bought Fifth Element. . . .

Anyways, it seems like most TVs now involve compromises (why must Toshiba upconvert?). I just need to find one I will be able to live with (and hopefully not continually compare it unfavorably to my old set).

I would like to read Michael_TLVs article on upconversion. Is it on the Keohi site? Anyone got a link?

In the meantime, what display would you tweakers buy now if you were making your purchase? And I am open to any modalilty right now except CRT FP (limited by my home not the technology!).

 

[Michael_V]

I see I just fell off the list of current threads but wanted to keep this alive a little longer. . . .

Michael_TLV, you mentioned a problem with the Hitachis. I assume this is the "false" 16:9 mode you referred to in your article on the Keohi site? If so, this is a significant issue, indeed!

Toshiba is off the list, as well, I am afraid. I simply cannot support the lost resolution their upconversion will cost me. I want to upgrade my display not downgrade it!

I am surprised Pioneer hasn't been mentioned yet. Any thoughts on these sets?

 

[Michael TLV]

Greetings

The Hitachi issue is as yet unresolved and I am still investigating. I need to see a few more examples of the problem on other units.

The issue is possibly with the TV's colour decoding system. I have worked on one set where the colours have a pastel look. It completely flattens the image ... takes away all image depth. Best described as when one goes from 16 million colours to 256 colors. Subtle colour gradations completely vanish ...

The fact that two local Hitachi service people pronounced that the set did not have a problem did not help the issue at all.

I am still working on it so the jury is out, but obviously the ramifications are significant if this problem is more prevalent than I hope it is.

Regards

 

[Chris Strasz]

Michael_V I've heard terrific things of the Pioneer SD533HD5. The only negative is the lack of DVI but considering no one knows what the standard will be, this is a moot point. It's supposed to have terrific stretch modes and line doubler, and takes a native 480 signal.

 

[MichaelFusick]

MichaelTLV,

Did you contact Hitachi?

 

[Michael TLV]

Greetings
No, not yet ... Life gets in the way.
Regards

 

[Michael_V]

Thanks all for the input!

Chris, apparently the new Pioneer Elites will have DVI, although that is not a huge issue for me. I have always loved that beautiful piano black finish, though. . . .

Michael_TLV, even the possibility of a Hitachi problem is enough to scare me away from a brand I have never associated with the very best displays, anyway. Whether that perception is warranted or not is another issue altogether. I have the same issues with the newest Samsung DLP RPTV even though it uses the new TI HD2 chip. The set may be amazing, but I wish the brand were stronger.

My problem for any of these sets will be finding a retailor, which you would think would be easy on a Japanese island, but has been amazingly difficult for some reason. . . .

By the way, no one voted on what specific set they would personally purchase if buying right now. Any takers?

 

[MichaelFusick]

even the possibility of a Hitachi problem is enough to scare me away from a brand I have never associated with the very best displays, anyway. Whether that perception is warranted or not is another issue altogether. I wish the brand were stronger.

Interersting.
Hitachi is the largest big screen MFG in the world. I believe they make more than 60% of the parts (CRT's) for all the bigscreens sold in the USA. To my knowledge they are the only MFG that completly manufacturers and build thier TV's in house, with only Hitachi parts inside. They also were the best selling RPTV last year.
http://www.tvinsite.com/index.asp?la...=searchResults
Here was the breakdown:
Top 10 Rear-Projection Displays
May 2001- April 2002
Rank By Unit Sales Brand/-Model Rank By $ Sales
1 53" Hitachi 53UWX10B -1
2 51" Sony KP51HW40 -3
3 57" Sony KP57HW40 -2
4 55" Mitsubishi WS55809 -4
5 53" Sony KP53HS30 -5
6 43" Hitachi 43UWX10B -6
7 47" Panasonic PT47WX49 -8
8 43" Hitachi 43FDX01B -11
9 51" Panasonic PT51HX41 -10
10 46" Mitsubishi WT46809 -7
Source: NPDTechworld ©TWICE 2002

 

[Chris Strasz]

Michael_V this is true, then again I can't afford an elite They're in the 5K+ category.

 

[DerekF]

Excellent point, MichaelFusick, but I think we need to be careful not to confuse "best-selling" with "best". As an example, here are the top ten best-selling vehicles for 2001: (Source: "U.S. Light-Truck Sales, December and YTD" and "U.S. Car Sales, December and YTD")

1. Ford F-Series -- 911,597
2. Chevrolet Silverado -- 716,051
3. Ford Explorer -- 415,921
4. Honda Accord -- 414,718
5. Toyota Camry -- 390,449
6. Ford Taurus -- 353,560
7. Dodge Ram Pickup -- 344,538
8. Honda Civic -- 331,780
9. Ford Ranger -- 272,460
10. Ford Focus -- 264,414

Not a performance-oriented or enthusiast pick in the bunch. Looking at this list, one could assume that Ford must make good vehicles, after all, they have 5 of the 10 spots...

However, according to a ranking of auto brands in the 2001 J.D. Power and Associates Initial Quality Study, Ford doesn't even appear in the top ten!:

Brand/problems per 100 vehicles:
1) Lexus 85
2) Jaguar 108
3) Acura 118
4) BMW 119
5) Saab 121
6) Toyota 121
7) Buick 121
8) Infiniti 123
9) Cadillac 126
10 Mercedes 129

And no, I'm not anti-Hitachi (I have 32" Ultravision at home, and I'm debating between a SWX and Tosh HDX as we speak), but in my opinion, "Best selling" and "Enthusiast" brands rarely correspond.

My 2 cents (tax included)

 

[MichaelFusick]

I understand your post.

I did not mean to confuse the best selling with the best.

Only, his wish that the "brand was stronger" ect... Made me think that he thought Hitachi was not a major player, or like some unheard of brand. When it comes to RPTV's, I always thought of Hitachi being one of the Big Boys.

 

[DerekF]

I understand your post.

I know--but I couldn't resist another auto-industry analogy!!