Tweakers: Best Toshiba Rptv?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Michael_V, Oct 24, 2002.

  1. Michael_V

    Michael_V Second Unit

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 1999
    Messages:
    321
    Likes Received:
    0
    After several years of bliss with my old very tweaked out TW40X81, it is time to upgrade. While I have toyed with the idea of going plasma screen, DLP, or even high-end LCD, I keep coming back to CRT as the gold standard display device. And I like the colorimetry of the Toshibas.

    Since my last purchase, though, I know Toshiba and other manufacturers have experimented with upconversion of 480p signals, resulting in lost resolution and fine detail and increased artifacts.

    My question, particularly for those who push their equipment (like Michael_TLV, Errol, and Chuck Williams), is:

    Which of the current Toshiba models do you recommend for good colorimetry, native 480p, and overall tweakability?
     
  2. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2000
    Messages:
    2,909
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Calgary, Alberta
    Real Name:
    Michael Chen
    Greetings

    If we stay in the Toshiba Realm, then all of the sets are the same. Tweak approach is the same ... just bigger and bigger. Very tweakable and easy to do.

    colorimetry ... same.

    480P native ... doesn't happen.

    Since Toshibas don't meet your three criteria, may need to look elsewhere.

    Mits ... tweakable ... somewhat harder but doable.
    ... better colorimetry after tweaked.
    does 480P native.

    Panny ... tweakable ... slightly harder ...
    slightly better grayscale response ... not necessarily colour.

    Does 480P native ... and cheaper than Mits.

    Regards
     
  3. Michael_V

    Michael_V Second Unit

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 1999
    Messages:
    321
    Likes Received:
    0
     
  4. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2000
    Messages:
    2,909
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Calgary, Alberta
    Real Name:
    Michael Chen
    Greetings

    Toshiba introduced the 540P upconversion in the 81 series last year. Cost saving feature.

    Current favourites are:

    Panasonic (But usually really mediocre out of box and need HD signal to fully tweak it right)
    Sony

    Hitachi (But am pursuing an issue with these sets that may plunge it to the bottom of the list if I don't like what I find.)

    Mits is not here because I do not get enough of them these days. Mits people gravitate to the perceived Mits specialized calibrators.

    Regards
     
  5. MichaelFusick

    MichaelFusick Second Unit

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2002
    Messages:
    301
    Likes Received:
    0
    Your also in Canada where Mits is not popular or sold.

    How about sony?

    480P native.

    Decent upconversion.

    Just that ringing to no end...
     
  6. Jack Briggs

    Jack Briggs Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 1999
    Messages:
    16,738
    Likes Received:
    129
    You know, it's kinda funny: This thread tells me we are now at the stage where we can talk about the "good old days" of early HD-capable displays. Anyone here remember when the TW40X81 was just about the most talked-about RPTV at HTF? [​IMG]
     
  7. Ed St. Clair

    Ed St. Clair Producer

    Joined:
    May 7, 2001
    Messages:
    3,320
    Likes Received:
    0
    This thread reminds me of "The Good New Day's", were HTF is on top of every liability of HD.
     
  8. Jan Strnad

    Jan Strnad Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 1999
    Messages:
    1,004
    Likes Received:
    0
    I wouldn't let upconversion stand in the way if you're pleased with other aspects of the Tosh. Check out Michael TLV's updated article on upconversion on Tosh for some screen shots. Personally, I think it's become a non-issue. I prefer the color on the Tosh to, well, everything else I've seen, and that means more to me (even though I have the older model) than uppermost-end resolution that you aren't likely to find on a DVD anyway.

    YMMV, of course.

    Jan
     
  9. Michael_V

    Michael_V Second Unit

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 1999
    Messages:
    321
    Likes Received:
    0
     
  10. Michael_V

    Michael_V Second Unit

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 1999
    Messages:
    321
    Likes Received:
    0
    I see I just fell off the list of current threads but wanted to keep this alive a little longer. . . .

    Michael_TLV, you mentioned a problem with the Hitachis. I assume this is the "false" 16:9 mode you referred to in your article on the Keohi site? If so, this is a significant issue, indeed!

    Toshiba is off the list, as well, I am afraid. I simply cannot support the lost resolution their upconversion will cost me. I want to upgrade my display not downgrade it!

    I am surprised Pioneer hasn't been mentioned yet. Any thoughts on these sets?
     
  11. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2000
    Messages:
    2,909
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Calgary, Alberta
    Real Name:
    Michael Chen
    Greetings

    The Hitachi issue is as yet unresolved and I am still investigating. I need to see a few more examples of the problem on other units.

    The issue is possibly with the TV's colour decoding system. I have worked on one set where the colours have a pastel look. It completely flattens the image ... takes away all image depth. Best described as when one goes from 16 million colours to 256 colors. Subtle colour gradations completely vanish ...

    The fact that two local Hitachi service people pronounced that the set did not have a problem did not help the issue at all.

    I am still working on it so the jury is out, but obviously the ramifications are significant if this problem is more prevalent than I hope it is.

    Regards
     
  12. Chris Strasz

    Chris Strasz Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2002
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    0
    Michael_V I've heard terrific things of the Pioneer SD533HD5. The only negative is the lack of DVI but considering no one knows what the standard will be, this is a moot point. It's supposed to have terrific stretch modes and line doubler, and takes a native 480 signal.
     
  13. MichaelFusick

    MichaelFusick Second Unit

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2002
    Messages:
    301
    Likes Received:
    0
    MichaelTLV,

    Did you contact Hitachi?
     
  14. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2000
    Messages:
    2,909
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Calgary, Alberta
    Real Name:
    Michael Chen
    Greetings
    No, not yet ... Life gets in the way. [​IMG]
    Regards
     
  15. Michael_V

    Michael_V Second Unit

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 1999
    Messages:
    321
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks all for the input!

    Chris, apparently the new Pioneer Elites will have DVI, although that is not a huge issue for me. I have always loved that beautiful piano black finish, though. . . .

    Michael_TLV, even the possibility of a Hitachi problem is enough to scare me away from a brand I have never associated with the very best displays, anyway. Whether that perception is warranted or not is another issue altogether. I have the same issues with the newest Samsung DLP RPTV even though it uses the new TI HD2 chip. The set may be amazing, but I wish the brand were stronger.

    My problem for any of these sets will be finding a retailor, which you would think would be easy on a Japanese island, but has been amazingly difficult for some reason. . . .

    By the way, no one voted on what specific set they would personally purchase if buying right now. Any takers?
     
  16. MichaelFusick

    MichaelFusick Second Unit

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2002
    Messages:
    301
    Likes Received:
    0
     
  17. Chris Strasz

    Chris Strasz Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2002
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    0
    Michael_V this is true, then again I can't afford an elite [​IMG] They're in the 5K+ category.
     
  18. DerekF

    DerekF Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2001
    Messages:
    184
    Likes Received:
    0
    Excellent point, MichaelFusick, but I think we need to be careful not to confuse "best-selling" with "best". As an example, here are the top ten best-selling vehicles for 2001: (Source: "U.S. Light-Truck Sales, December and YTD" and "U.S. Car Sales, December and YTD")

    1. Ford F-Series -- 911,597
    2. Chevrolet Silverado -- 716,051
    3. Ford Explorer -- 415,921
    4. Honda Accord -- 414,718
    5. Toyota Camry -- 390,449
    6. Ford Taurus -- 353,560
    7. Dodge Ram Pickup -- 344,538
    8. Honda Civic -- 331,780
    9. Ford Ranger -- 272,460
    10. Ford Focus -- 264,414

    Not a performance-oriented or enthusiast pick in the bunch. Looking at this list, one could assume that Ford must make good vehicles, after all, they have 5 of the 10 spots...

    However, according to a ranking of auto brands in the 2001 J.D. Power and Associates Initial Quality Study, Ford doesn't even appear in the top ten!:

    Brand/problems per 100 vehicles:
    1) Lexus 85
    2) Jaguar 108
    3) Acura 118
    4) BMW 119
    5) Saab 121
    6) Toyota 121
    7) Buick 121
    8) Infiniti 123
    9) Cadillac 126
    10 Mercedes 129

    And no, I'm not anti-Hitachi (I have 32" Ultravision at home, and I'm debating between a SWX and Tosh HDX as we speak), but in my opinion, "Best selling" and "Enthusiast" brands rarely correspond.

    My 2 cents (tax included)
     
  19. MichaelFusick

    MichaelFusick Second Unit

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2002
    Messages:
    301
    Likes Received:
    0
    I understand your post.

    I did not mean to confuse the best selling with the best.

    Only, his wish that the "brand was stronger" ect... Made me think that he thought Hitachi was not a major player, or like some unheard of brand. When it comes to RPTV's, I always thought of Hitachi being one of the Big Boys.
     
  20. DerekF

    DerekF Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2001
    Messages:
    184
    Likes Received:
    0
     

Share This Page