Tube Vs. Solid State (1 Viewer)

[mike_decock]

Thanks for sharing that revelation Manuel! It's funny how so many people who are convinced that SS is superior because of the measurements fall in love with tubes when they hear that "magic".


-Mike...

 

[Manuel Delaflor]

Mike,

I most confess I didn't believe the claims before. I was somehow interested, but that's all. In the end I used to think it was more a subjective feeling that an easily to hear fact.

Now, I can't say that, generally speaking, Tubes are always better than SS, but I can surely say that the Margules amplifiers I listened to are better than any SS I have listened to, including Bryston.

Bryston are powerful, very well constructed, no doubt about it. But their musicallity lacks. Saddly, what I understand by this term is impossible to describe with words. As I said before, its just something you must listen for yourself.

 

[Michael R Price]

How come when we look at the very best amplifiers of both types, the tube amps without the harmonic distortion and coloration, and the solid state amps without the analytical, emotionless sound, those products sound very much alike? I don't think it's a coincidence.

Very interesting experiences Manuel.

 

[Luis C]

those products sound very much alike?

What?! I think not... no, I take that back... I KNOW not...

 

[Saurav]

Actually, from what I've read, the very best tube and SS amps sound more alike than different. I wouldn't know from personal experience, because my finances don't allow me to own such amps, and auditioning them would just make me unhappy

 

[Lewis Besze]

It's funny how so many people who are convinced that SS is superior because of the measurements fall in love with tubes when they hear that "magic".

Would you quantify "so many"?

 

[mike_decock]

Would you quantify "so many"?

Probably best quantified as "a big percentage", or "the vast majority of people". I see at least half a dozen posts on various forums every week from people like Manuel relating similar experiences. I have yet to see a "I went to check out to see what tubes are all about and hated it" kind of post. I'm certain that the posts I see are just a very small fraction of the actual numbers of people catching on.


-Mike...

 

[Lee Scoggins]

I have yet to see a "I went to check out to see what tubes are all about and hated it" kind of post.

I'm not surprised by this quote. I personally find that a good tube amp cannot be beat in terms of (1) soundstage capability and (2) midrange accuracy.
There are some exceptional new amps like the Halcro that are solid state, but I have never been able to live long term with the ones under $10K.
I must admit also that there are three additional benefits to tube amps:
1. Friends come over, point to my VT100 and ask "is that one of those tube amps?" (big WOW factor on these)
2. Serve as a great space heater in winter.
3. With the proper amount of wine, my wife finds the orange glow to be romantic.

 

[Lewis Besze]

I have yet to see a "I went to check out to see what tubes are all about and hated it" kind of post

I didn't seen "hated it" either but "less then impressed" yes ,though not frequently I admit.
Me, I don't know anybody with such set up,but I'm very intruiged to hear one.Maybe one of the So Cal member will let me audition his?

 

[Dan Pawlowski]

Probably best quantified as "a big percentage", or "the vast majority of people".

I would like to see the empirical data which supports this statement.

 

[Dan Pawlowski]

Bryston are powerful, very well constructed, no doubt about it. But their musicallity lacks.

Do you have any idea how much music is produced utilizing the Bryston amp in recording studios. If its good enough for the producers and recording engineers who help create the music, its good enough for me....musically speaking of course.

 

[Luis C]

Maybe one of the So Cal member will let me audition his?

Lewis, I will have 7.1 surround setup (all tube driven) finished at the end of this month. You are more than welcome to "audition".
Just be warned... you won't want anything else afterwards.

 

[Larry B]

Saurav:

Actually, from what I've read, the very best tube and SS amps sound more alike than different.

I would say they are more alike than they used to be, but are still quite different.

My 2 cents.

Larry

 

[mike_decock]

I would like to see the empirical data which supports this statement.

Me too. I just have my own observations to go on.

-Mike...

 

[Manuel Delaflor]

Dan

Do you have any idea how much music is produced utilizing the Bryston amp in recording studios.

I'm sincerely not interested to know which kind of equipment is used on studios. I trust my ears better than anything else. On the other hand, I didn't want to imply that Bryston's are not good enough for any use. The term that is causing some "noise" here is what I meant by musicality. Hard to put it in words without being there with you trying to show what I wanted to say.

When I listen to a Bryston I certainly enjoy it, specially I love them in the bass department, they have slam. Of course their mids and highs are clear as cristal. Yet, what I witnessed at Margules Shop is a different kind of thing. I listened the slam, but the amount of detail of the resonance of classical instruments was more impressive, convincent and realist than everything else I have listened to. The mids and highs are as clear as the Bryston's, but there is something more, a quantity in detail, so to speak, that I have been unable to hear in any SS.

I have to say that Im talking based on memory about the Bryston, and that the speakers are probably playing a role here, the Bryston I listen more often is driving a set of NHT 2.9's (not precisely bad speakers) and the Margules Tubes are driving a set of Margules Orpheous.

But I can tell you that, as soon as I get my Margules Hybrid ACRH-1 (which was a lot more like the all tubes amplifier than a SS that was there), I will be able to compare the sound side by side to the Bryston. I will be able then to do a much more careful and controlled test, and I will post my results in the forum.

 

[Saurav]

I would say they are more alike than they used to be, but are still quite different.

*shrug* OK You guys would know better than me, definitely.

 

[MannyE]

Just to add my nickle,
Since I built my tube pre and monoblock amps, I've had friends over to listen and they ALL are amazed.
A couple of them are cynical electrical engineers...if you have ever met HAM radio types, you know what I'm talking about....they are the wire is wire is wire types, and they were all convinced there was no way tubes could best good sand. And of course, being engineers, they were eager to trash my setup. They ended up, however...wide eyed and had to admit it sounded great.
Here's what they listened to:

Source was a MMF-5 TT with a Radio Shack "Little Rat" phono pre and Ed's Horns as speakers.
I also have a Pioneer VSX-D906S reciever...which when I bought it, was the top of the line of the bottom of the line...Dolby Digital 5 channel..etc etc 100 watts per channel.
We hooked the MMF-5 into the phono input of this sand reciever and the music was just not as nice....kind of crappy in fact.
Now, you may say it's not a fair comparison because I'm comparing high-end tube gear to lower-end sand gear but I beg to differ... the cost of the pioneer was 1000 bucks and the Foreplay and Paramours pictured come in at about 700 bucks..(they are kits).
IMO the tubes have won this round....anyone in Miami is welcome to e-mail me for a demo!

 

[kevitra]

I had the ASL Wave 8s in my system for a couple of weeks. My other amp is a Rotel 985. The speakers are ACI Sapphire IIIs.

The 'cheap' Waves sound incredible with vocals and pretty much any music I could throw at am. After listening to them for one week I switched back to the Rotel. I could not believe how bad it sound compared to the Waves. It sound 'dead'. Please realize that it is hard to describe, but the sweetness of the sound was gone.

I ordered a nOrh SE 9 tube integrated amp last week (tube pre and amp sections). I should be here this week. I will post a 'true' review of the SE 9 vs my Rotel after I am acquainted with it.

 

[Manuel Delaflor]

Kevitra,

That is precisely what we are talking about. Somehow every SS I have listened since my Tubes experience sound "dead". It is indeed difficult to explain.

 

[mike_decock]

So life CAN survive a vacuum!!!
-Mike...