Toshiba 27A41: My impressions

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Darren_H, Aug 1, 2001.

  1. Darren_H

    Darren_H Auditioning

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    I've had this TV for half a week and I just thought I'd let you know what its like.
    I have mixed feelings about this television. I'll go over the good stuff first.
    GOOD:
    The Price: For $300 you get a 27" TV with component and s-video inputs, 2 rear A/V inputs, 1 A/V output and 1 front A/V input.
    Video Quality: Really good except for a few things that I'll mention later. I hooked Monster 3 Component cables to my DVD player and it really has made a big difference. Watching DVDs through composite cables is now almost an eyesore. S-Video is also pretty nice.
    Now on to the bad. Alot of nitpicking here but there are a couple things that I really hate.
    BAD:
    The Speakers: I really don't like these speakers. They're only 2.5 watts and sometimes it sounds like you're listening to things through a tunnel. Even the speakers on my 3 1/2 year old 19" Sanyo sound much better.
    Picture Issues: Like the earlier "A" series, this TV also has a problem holding Black level. The picture is tilted about an inch clockwise. It can get annoying whenever text is on screen. BTW, can someone let me know if problems like the tilted screen would be on every 27A41 or is it just my set. I need to know if I have to return it or not.
    Ok, back to the picture issues. There is blue line not even a centimeter wide on the upper right edge of the picture and things get sort of greenish as you go down. Then on the left side of the screen I see the same thing but the line is orange-yellow. These aren't always visible though. There is a patch of the screen that is darker than the rest about 4x4" in the upper left corner of the screen. Only really visible on whites. Finally there is a minor geometry problem in the upper right corner.
    Other: I wish this TV had multiple memory settings for picture and the remote sucks!
    Like I said earlier, can someone tell me if I should return my TV for another based on the picture problems above or should I not bother wasting my time?
    Darren_H
     
  2. ThomasL

    ThomasL Supporting Actor

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    Darren, is the tilt problem a geometry problem or an actual physical tilting of the entire screen? The latter couldn't be fixed without opening up the set and it is possible things shifted during delivery from the factory, etc. I have a 27A40 and it has a 1/4 inch tilt upward from left to right. I rarely notice it anymore. But, if you return this 27A41, you may indeed get a set with no physical tilt. As for the other problems, black level retention will most likely be the same on the sets. As for the lines, I have no idea but I would hope not every set has those. Do you see the lines on all source material (cable, vcr, dvd)?
    cheers,
    --tom
     
  3. Rick Julian

    Rick Julian Auditioning

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    A TV with a 1" tilt?
    Return it today and get another one.
    I can not believe that sets are being shipped today with tilt. The tube yokes are cemented on the neck of the picture tube. The manufacturers must be scrimping during production to keep the cost of the sets down.
    The Toshiba 27af41 has a tilt control in one of the menues.
    Unbelievable!!!
    On Sunday I purchased a Toshiba 27AF41. The set had poor geometry and while calibrating with the color bar test pattern, I noticed a blemish in the picture tube in the upper right hand corner about the size of the tip of my thumb,most noticeable with saturated blue. it appeared as a spot with no color. I decided to return the set since I did not want to deal with it.
    Rick Julian------------------
    [Edited last by Rick Julian on August 01, 2001 at 06:25 AM]
     
  4. ThomasL

    ThomasL Supporting Actor

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    I agree Rick. Quality control is what suffers when companies try to keep cut costs and skimp. The tilt on mine is really only noticeable if you look for it while watching a letterboxed movie. In fact, I didn't even notice it until watching a 2.35:1 movie one day and today, I never notice it unless I'm thinking about it. But 1/4 is a lot less to the eye than 1 inch which I think I would notice constantly.
    cheers,
    --tom
     
  5. ThomasL

    ThomasL Supporting Actor

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    Rick, I don't think I've heard of a flat tube direct tv model line where consumers didn't complain about the geometry. I'm not implying that as consumers we should accept it, more to the point, there seems to be a limitation of the technology the manufacturers are using since it seems to occur across the board (not all sets but just from reading this forum and other reviews, poor geometry seems to be the number one complaint on flat tube tvs).
    My 20AF41 has geometry problems as well. Like with a computer monitor, I was able to go into the service menu and improve things somewhat. More specifically, I simply "spread" the error around the entire screen (making it less noticeable/more minor in nature) instead of making it concentrated in one side/spot. This is usually the best one can do. I haven't noticed any discoloration on any part of the screen and there is no tilt problem.
    Rick, I'm curious to know if the 27AF41 holds black level well and did it suffer from red push at all? Also, did you return the set and get another or did you give up on the new flat tubes from Toshiba?
    cheers,
    --tom
     
  6. ToddS

    ToddS Stunt Coordinator

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    I bought the 27A41 on Friday and I have not seen any tilt problems that have been noticeable but I will check tonight. I must say I love the picture through S-Video, will going component make a big difference? Also does any one know how I can get a service manual for this set? Any help is appreciated.
     
  7. ThomasL

    ThomasL Supporting Actor

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    Todd, going from Svideo to component will probably not make that big a difference but it is really up to the beholder. If your dvd player can do parallel video out, then hook up both at the same time and compare. For me, the picture looked somewhat better with component on the 27A40 and the overall color saturation was about 10 percent greater. Of course, this just meant when I calibrated, I ended up lowering the color setting accordingly.
    Service manuals may be available from www.pacparts.com but also try www.titronicsinc.com. The latter were very helpful when I wanted to get a service manual for my 20AF41.
    cheers,
    --tom
     
  8. ThomasL

    ThomasL Supporting Actor

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    Darren, you peaked my curiousity so I went to www.toshiba.ca (www.toshiba.com has no information on the new sets) and looked at the specs for the 27A41. It seems this tv has taken a downgrade from the 27A40.
    two line digital comb filter vs. a 3 line
    560 lines of horizontal resolution rated vs. 600
    5 watts total audio vs. 10 watts
    It has a few more user features like stable sound and channel labeling if that web page is correct. They also list front a/v inputs, is that true?
    cheers,
    --tom
     
  9. Darren_H

    Darren_H Auditioning

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    That sucks. I thought I read somewhere that the 27A41 had a 3 line filter [​IMG]. Does anyone know if the 27A51 or 61 will be any better? If not, I might just have to see if I can pay a little extra and get a 32A41.
    And yes, the 27A41 does have front a/v , channel labeling and stable sound(the sound still sucks though).
    Darren_H
     
  10. Rick Julian

    Rick Julian Auditioning

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    In response to Tom"s questions.
    I owned a 24AF41 since April then gave the set to my parents for the bedroom then purchased the 27AF41 for myself.
    My first impression on the Toshiba 27" was that the Red Push was minimal. I really did not have to turn the color down when calibrating. The geometry was terrible. The picture did not have a tilt problem on my set. The 0 level was good enough. I played with a set yesterday that need a +6 to make the picture level. It was off by about 3/8".(Unacceptable). The manual said that the sets had a tilt adjustment to compensate for magnetic fields. Bologna!!! BOLONE. What, did magnetic fields just appear on earth this year? The 27af41 has an adjustment for tilt (+/- 10).
    I feel that more and more manufacturers will have this tilt feature because of letterboxing. Manufacturers in the past hid their faults in factory calibration by increasing overscan to compensate for set up issues at the plant. Now you really can not hide things as much on the new flat screen sets.
    The picture on the 24AF41 was definitely different from the 27AF41. The 24AF41 seemed to have more contrast from black to white. The picture definitely was more punchy on the 24AF41. The blacks seemed blacker (or maybe the blacks were more blue on the 24AF41). There was more contrast from black to white. Almost overdrived at a contrast level of 24. Since I was used to watching the 24" (for about 4 months), the 27" picture seemed muted, more "old fashion" less dramatic. I really do not know how to explain it. I made me hope for more. I had to turn contrast higher (60's) to get anything out of the picture in comparison.
    I may purchase another 27af41 latter in the summer. Wait for maybe Toshiba to get some of the kinks/bugs resolved in the early edition. I am afraid to purchase again right away .
    Rick Julian
    ------------------
    [Edited last by Rick Julian on August 01, 2001 at 08:24 PM]
    [Edited last by Rick Julian on August 01, 2001 at 08:32 PM]
     
  11. Carol Curtis

    Carol Curtis Stunt Coordinator

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    I would check out the "51" it might have more horizontal resolution, a better comb filter & a 10 watt audio amp. From what I've noticed over the years in my tv catalogs, as the price has gone down on the entry level tv's so has horizontal resolution & audio watts. Some of them have even got rid of bass, trebble & balance controls so the next set up that has P-I-P on it is really a totaly different set where it used to be all the sets with P-I-P just had a chip added to them. As my father is always telling me, "CHECK THE SPECS, CHECK THE SPECS, CHECK THE SPECS" [​IMG] If I was you & you can't find the specs on the "51" I would return your "41" & try a "51" out. If you see a big difference in the "51" then keep it. If not return it & get another "41" Just make sure the store has a good return policy.
     
  12. PascalC

    PascalC Agent

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    where did you see de 51?
    The 27AF41 includes all these features :
    VIDEO
    FST Pure™ Flat Picture Tube
    Dynamic Quadruple Focus
    Velocity Scan Modulation
    Vertical Contour Correction
    700 Lines Horizontal Resolution
    3-Line Digital Comb Filter
    Black Level Expander
    Picture Mode
    Color Temperature Control
    Video Lock
    Video Label
    AUDIO
    MTS Stereo
    Front Surround Sound
    10 Watts Audio Output
    Sub-Bass Sound System
    CONVENIENCE
    32 Key Glow Universal Remote Control
    Favorite Channel
    Channel Label
    Channel Lock
    Trilingual On-Screen Display
    Off Timer
    Closed Captioning
    Front Terminals
    CONNECTIONS
    (2) S-Video Input
    (2) Audio Video Inputs
    (1) Audio Video Output
    ColorStream® Component Video Inputs
    The 27AF61 includes all these features :
    VIDEO
    FST Pure™ Flat Picture Tube
    Dual Tuner Multi Window (6) P.I.P.
    Dynamic Quadruple Focus
    Velocity Scan Modulation
    Vertical Contour Correction
    700 Lines Horizontal Resolution
    3-Line Digital Comb Filter
    Black Level Expander
    Picture Mode
    Color Temperature Control
    Video Lock
    Video Label
    AUDIO
    MTS Stereo
    Front Surround Sound
    10 Watts Audio Output
    Sub-Bass Sound System
    CONVENIENCE
    37 Key Back Lit Universal Remote Control
    Favorite Channel
    Channel Label
    Channel Lock
    Trilingual On-Screen Display
    Off Timer
    Closed Captioning
    Front Terminals
    CONNECTIONS
    (2) S-Video Input
    (2) Audio Video Inputs
    (1) Audio Video Output
    ColorStream® Component Video Inputs
    Dual RF Inputs
     
  13. ThomasL

    ThomasL Supporting Actor

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    Darren, according to the spec sheet I downloaded from www.toshiba.ca (and there is nothing saying this is written in stone - I for one would like to tell Toshiba to get their act together and keep their US web site up to date), there is a 27AX61 but the only added feature is the dual tuner PIP. There is no mention of a A51 or even a A61. I do know that the 27A60 was the Cinema Series set for the last line of A models and it was a little better than the 27A40 - 700 vs. 600 horizontal resolution plus dual tuner PIP.
    As for the 27A41's sound, the sound on the 27A40, while much better than the old 25 inch Sharp I used to have, is still pretty tinny when compared to my Pioneer receiver or even the 20AF41 which has BBE enhanced sound - this really does make quite a difference at least for me. Adding front inputs was a good idea - not sure why they didn't do that earlier.
    cheers,
    --tom
     
  14. ThomasL

    ThomasL Supporting Actor

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    Rick, thanks for the feedback. Yes, the 20AF41 and 24AF41, I suspect have decent black level retention. I calibrated the 20AF41 with the basic Avia pattern and then looked at the black with black pattern and there was no need to lower brightness. When I looked at the black with white pattern, the moving bar disappeared, so this does say that on luminant scenes with dark areas, the set will lose detail in those areas. I don't mind that as much as I mind a dark night scene looking washed out. And yes, the blacks are blue on these sets...the color temperature is too high/blue/cool (whatever one wants to label it [​IMG] ). When I looked at the 10 IRE grayscale window pattern, I could really see the blue, same on the 20 IRE pattern. I tweaked RBIAS, GBIAS and BBIAS to eliminate the blueish tint. Blacks are still very black though. I agree on the contrast as well. I have my contrast setting at 15 currently. At the factory default of maximum, it'll blind you [​IMG]
    What I was hoping from the 27 (and larger) AF/AFX series is less red push, better grayscale and hopefully the same black level retention. I guess if I do upgrade again from the 27A40, I will have to bring in my Avia disc to the store and look at some patterns. I am hoping that someplace like Tweeter would allow this - especially if I was committed to getting the 32 inch flat tube cinema series set - based on the results of the tests. The news on the geometry is not promising. I don't think I could live with anything worse than the 20AF41's current geometry. It's not bad but I think if there was any more error, it would begin to be noticeable when watching something other than test patterns.
    cheers,
    --tom
     
  15. PascalC

    PascalC Agent

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    I would like to buy my new TV this week-end
    what is the best choice
    SOny 32FS13
    Toshiba 32AF41
    or waiting for the 32AFX61
    Do you know something about looking anamorfic DVD on the Toshiba AF series
    [Edited last by PascalC on August 01, 2001 at 08:41 PM]
    [Edited last by PascalC on August 01, 2001 at 08:45 PM]
     
  16. ThomasL

    ThomasL Supporting Actor

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    Pascal, none of the non-HDTV ready Toshibas have a user menu anamorphic squeeze or automatic squeeze capability that I know of. People have done it via the service menu though but depending on the person, this can either be seen as easy, hard and/or a hassle (you do have to go back in and reset everything back to the defaults when viewing non-16x9 material - and there is always the danger of accidently messing something up in the service menu).
    good luck,
    --tom
     
  17. PascalC

    PascalC Agent

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    tank you Tom
    Wega or not Wega this is the question?
     

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