Spider-Man: Far From Home (July 2, 2019) [ENDGAME SPOILERS ALLOWED!] (1 Viewer)

[Sean Bryan]

This dude, Mikey Sutton, seems to have reliable insiders at Sony and Disney. He first broke the news of Disney and Fox talking about a possible acquisition and he also was the first to report that talks between Sony and Marvel were still ongoing right after the news of the “split” broke. And he also very vocally called the statements from Sony about “the door being closed” as BS several weeks ago and remained adamant that talks were still ongoing up until the news broke yesterday about the new deal.

His reaction here to this “writing Spidey out” rumor:


“Once again, many comics sites have found a way to twist a happy story and distort it to upset you. And the angrier the fans get, the more times you will share their posts, increasing their ad revenue.

Kevin Feige has NO plans to create an endgame for Spider-Man in the MCU after the third Spidey movie and the other MCU film in the contract mutually signed by both parties. What's he going to do, kill off Peter Parker? After all this work trying to get an agreement with Sony, make him homeless? Come on, man.

Normally, I wouldn't even bother giving this bogusness the time of day but I've become the Truth Police when it comes to Spider-Man lately, and this is a 10.0 on the BS scale.

What's the origin of this Mysterio mirage? It's a small item in the back pages of the Hollywood Reporter, with not even an anonymous source credited!, about how that might be Feige's plan. Eh? But in the SAME issue of THR, the main article, you'll find this:
"Terms of the new deal were not revealed, but it will allow Marvel and its chief Feige to produce and run creative point on one more movie that would star Tom Holland, the actor who is the current incarnation of the web-slinging superhero. Depending on how things go, more movies could be in the offing."

In other words, the once mighty THR just contradicted itself in the same issue!
And what did Deadline, who broke the new deal, say?
"We hear that as Sony progresses their own Marvel universe with titles likes Venom 2 and Sinister Six, and Disney/Marvel their own, there could be a “call and answer” between the two franchises as they acknowledge details between the two in what is would loosely be described as a shared detailed universe. Details on that are still early."

But do all these comics sites promote those parts? Of course not. Because they don't feed on your anger.

Ignore the illusions. And it's great having you back, Tom.”

https://www.facebook.com/mikey.sutton.7

 

[Jake Lipson]

I don't think anyone outside Sony and Disney has actually seen the new contract, and certainly no one knows exactly what is in Kevin Feige's head.

I think it is clear that Feige should plan to provide closure to Peter's current storylines over the course of the next two films, so that if this is it, there's not a massive cliffhanger like there is on Far From Home. However, that doesn't have to mean that the story is over. It would be stupid to end the next films with a massive cliffhanger, but it would also be stupid to do anything that shuts the door completely on future appearances. The only reason to shove the door closed would be if Tom Holland wants to leave the role after these two new films, in which case that would be a different conversation, and he has certainly not given any public indication that he wants to leave.

Assuming that Holland wants to keep playing Peter for the foreseeable future, I would expect Spider-Man's arc across the next two films to leave him in a place that is something similar to what they did with Thor in the end of Endgame. We know that we are going to get Thor 4 and that's great and I can't wait to see it, but Endgame set Thor down a path where he could either have a fourth movie or not. If Hemsworth had not wanted to return, Thor's arc throughout the previous films had been completed, and the character would have just been off the canvas having new cosmic adventures that we don't see. Since Hemsworth did resign for the fourth one, Endgame now becomes an effective springboard into Thor broadening himself and having new experiences that we will see. But if Thor 4 had not happened, there was enough of a sense of completion with how Endgame wrapped things up for Thor that we wouldn't have been sitting here with a big unresolved issue.

If Feige uses this as the model for Peter going forward, all options are on the table. If Sony and Disney play nice and extend the agreement beyond these two films, great, and if they don't, then Sony can take him without leaving a gaping hole in the MCU storyline.

Also, of course, there's the seed planted in Homecoming with Donald Glover's cameo as Aaron Davis, who specifically tells Spider-Man about his nephew. That means Miles Morales exists in the MCU, so whenever Holland does decide to hang up his suit, they have a natural already next step built in, provided that Sony and Marvel choose to continue their deal.

Negotiations between two huge companies are always going to be complex and challenging, but I have no doubt that the next two films will be big successes for all involved, and now they have a template for a deal that works and benefits everyone. So maybe, just maybe, it might be ever so slightly easier to renegotiate next time if that is what they wish to do. The 2016 deal giving Disney only 5% wouldn't have made sense for them to re-up, but a 25% co-financing/profit sharing seems better, because it still gives Sony the majority of their marquee franchise while giving Disney enough incentive to continue allowing Feige to make another studio's movies.

And at least from what it sounds like, the 25% stake only applies to the third MCU Spider-Man film, so Sony can still keep 100% of things like Venom and Spider-Verse that Disney has not been involved in. That seems like a win for all involved, so maybe the next round of negotiations won't be quite as hard. Hopefully.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

“Once again, many comics sites have found a way to twist a happy story and distort it to upset you. And the angrier the fans get, the more times you will share their posts, increasing their ad revenue.

This x1000.

This is why I hate all of those clickbait sites that don’t actually practice any real journalism, but merely steal and plagiarize from legitimate journalistic sources. They add absolutely nothing positive to the discussion, while creating confusion and vitriol that serves to divide people and groups that are actually complementary.

 

[Sean Bryan]

This x1000.

This is why I hate all of those clickbait sites that don’t actually practice any real journalism, but merely steal and plagiarize from legitimate journalistic sources. They add absolutely nothing positive to the discussion, while creating confusion and vitriol that serves to divide people and groups that are actually complementary.

Yeah, that’s why I’m finding this Mikey Sutton dude interesting and refreshing. He posts the occasional article on CBM but really it seems like most all of the information he gives out is just Facebook posts. He seems to be pretty anti-clickbaity. I’m going to start looking at his facebook more often now.

 

[Jake Lipson]

On another note, that deleted scene I posted in post #611 made me wonder something. Do we still need spoiler tags from Far From Home 32 pages in and almost four months out from its release?

Just in case...

Spoiler: Far From Home

After discovering Mysterio's plot, Peter tells Ned to have May tell Mr. Harrington that he is going to stay with family in Berlin, which she obviously does because there's the scene where Brad harps on how weird it is. But then after taking down Mysterio in London, Peter flies back home with his class, which we see not only in the deleted scene but also when they arrive home together. How is it that no one asked how Peter got to London or why he's suddenly back on the trip just in time to go home? I understand why he would want to fly home with M.J., but it might have been more convenient for his cover if he had just gotten a ride home from Happy or something.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Do we still need spoiler tags from Far From Home 32 pages in and almost four months out from its release?

No. The general unofficial rule is that, in their own dedicated threads, spoiler tags are no longer needed after the film’s second weekend at the box office has passed.

As a matter of courtesy/etiquette, if you referred to spoilers from an unrelated film in this thread, please use tags, but at this point anything in Far From Home is up for discussion in a dedicated Far From Home thread.

 

[Sean Bryan]

On another note, that deleted scene I posted in post #611 made me wonder something. Do we still need spoiler tags from Far From Home 32 pages in and almost four months out from its release?

Just in case...

Spoiler: Far From Home

After discovering Mysterio's plot, Peter tells Ned to have May tell Mr. Harrington that he is going to stay with family in Berlin, which she obviously does because there's the scene where Brad harps on how weird it is. But then after taking down Mysterio in London, Peter flies back home with his class, which we see not only in the deleted scene but also when they arrive home together. How is it that no one asked how Peter got to London or why he's suddenly back on the trip just in time to go home? I understand why he would want to fly home with M.J., but it might have been more convenient for his cover if he had just gotten a ride home from Happy or something.

I just looked it up and it’s only about a 9 hour train ride from Berlin to London. Peter could have said he traveled in overnight to fly back with the class once the threat was ended.

 

[Sean Bryan]

Far From Home spoilers below !!!!!

So now that we can put the “break-up” scare behind us I’m thinking more about where the story will go with Spider-Man 3.

Who seems to be the most likely villain(s) for the third entry in the series? I feel that Toomes (Vulture) and Mac Gargan (Scorpion) are possible candidates. Gargan was interested in knowing Spider-Man’s identity at the end of Homecoming. With his identity being revealed at the end of Far From Home it would be a logical progression to revisit him coming after Peter. Unless they find a way to undo his outing at the beginning (doubtful) the movie definitely is going to have to deal with the very dangerous consequences (to him, his family, and his friends) of his identity being revealed.

Also, in the comics there is a story involving Jameson using Scorpion to go after Spider-Man. So I could definitely see something like that being explored considering the elements currently at play.

Quentin Beck seems dead. But considering the strong illusion aspect of his character you can’t rule out the possibility that he somehow survived and it wasn’t just his partners that sent out the frame job video but he himself.

Then again, Sony wants to do a Sinister Six movie so maybe they’d prefer that these villains aren’t revisited until then and maybe they’d prefer another new villain to be used so that there are more pre-existing villains to revisit for the eventual Sinister Six movie.

Chamaeleon could be an interesting character to be involved in some way. Especially with the aspect of “identity” factoring into the story. If they do find a way to prove that Peter Parker is not Spider-Man by the end of the film a character who can show that identities can be faked is a good possibility to be involved. Skrulls could potentially serve that purpose as well.

And of course Kraven the Hunter seems like an interesting possibility. Since Peter hasn’t just been outed as Spidey but has also been framed and would be a fugitive, Kraven would make sense as a new character that is out to bring him in (dead or alive).

I’d love to see the gold standard Spidey villains Norman Osborne and Otto Octavius finally make their way into Spidey’s world, but I suspect that they won’t be brought in until we are done with the high school years trilogy and start a new, more mature college years trilogy. It is an absolute no brainer that they will be used at some point, but I think they are holding off a bit longer for those heavy hitters.

As far as MCU heroes that will likely be involved, it’s hard to say without knowing what will be going on with the other heroes around the time that Spidey 3 takes place. Fantastic Four would be great with Spidey, but they won’t be in the MCU before 2021. Falcon/Cap could be cool. But I think Doctor Strange would be awesome. Both New Yorkers, and they know each other and died together on Titan. So if Pete was looking for help from a fellow hero Strange would make sense.

Anyway, it’s nice to be speculating about this type of stuff now instead of worrying about him leaving the MCU.

 

[Jake Lipson]

Unless they find a way to undo his outing at the beginning (doubtful)

That would be absolute crap. The reason I loved the ending so much is precisely because it opens up doors you mentioned above. There's no reason to end Far From Home with him being outed if they're just going to undo it.

Since Toomes already knew Peter's identity and went out of his way to hide it from Gargan in the end of Homecoming, I really don't see Toomes as being much of a threat to Peter at this point because he has made the decision to protect Peter. Gargan could come after him, but considering the snap, it's possible he might have already gotten out of prison and moved on with his life. Doctor Strange 2 will have the same issue to an even larger degree because they left off the first one with the tease that Chewatel Ejifor was going to become the villain in the next Strange film, but by the time Strange 2 comes out, so much time will have elapsed in between his solo films, then you have the question of what they were doing all that time, blah blah blah.

If they were going to revisit someone from Homecoming, the top of my wish list would be Liz, because when she sees the news, she will finally figure out what happened to her in Homecoming and that Peter was involved in sending her dad to jail. I don't want to see her become a villain, but I think Peter treated her like a doormat in that movie, and he really owed her an explanation and didn't give her one, so I'd like to see her reaction to the news.

Personally, I don't need to see Osborn or Doc Ock. I get why other people would want to see them with this Spider-Man, but I feel like I'd rather see a new villain who hasn't been on screen before. I also don't think we should get our hopes up for a "college trilogy." Although that would be fantastic, it requires Sony and Disney to continue playing nice, so I'm not going to take that for granted. They should do what they want to do to tell a great story in this one without assuming that there will or won't be another one. As for the new villain, I think Jon Watts said somewhere during press for Far From Home that he would like it to be Kraven the Hunter, but there have also been reports that Sony wants to make a Kraven solo film in their villains universe, so I doubt he would get both at this stage.

You're right that Doctor Strange would make sense to appear because Peter knows him already, but he's going to be in his own sequel about two months before Spider-Man 3, so the idea of him having leading roles in two movies in such a short period would be unusual. I know Spider-Man was in both Endgame and Far From Home this summer, but his role in Endgame was relatively brief, since he returned to life just in time to help out in battle and then watch Tony die. I feel like the fact that Strange and Spider-Man are releasing in such close proximity to each other means it's probably likely that we will see him interact with someone else.

Conversely, I don't think it really matters what is going on with the other heroes when Spider-Man 3 comes out because it's my hope that the third movie will pick up directly after Far From Home ended. I really want to see what happens to Peter immediately after Jameson broadcast that video. So, if it does pick up right there, the other films in between would be irrelevant.

We know Black Widow is a prequel of some kind, so Spider-Man won't be in that, or in The Eternals, which is cosmic. Shang-Chi at least takes place on Earth, but it doesn't sound like that's going to be near New York. Again, Doctor Strange 2 could potentially lead into Spider-Man if they wanted it to since it is the film directly beforehand in sequence and they have the relationship from Infinity War. However, that's going to be a crazy multiverse thing; I really don't see Spider-Man fitting into that very well at this stage with this particular cliffhanger to resolve.

My guess is that we won't see Peter again until his third film, and the other movie on the deal where he will appear in a Disney MCU project is something that hasn't been announced yet for after his movie.

The biggest question for me is whether we see "Nick Fury" (either Talos or the real one) interact with Peter again. Talos-Fury did make clear to Happy that he needs to speak with Peter at the end of Far From Home. But I felt when I saw it that the tag with Fury in space was about making him available for the Captain Marvel sequel, which will presumably be cosmic and will arrive after Spider-Man. Would Fury actually return to Earth to clean up Talos' mess from Far From Home and then go back to space for the Captain Marvel sequel?

The other question I had is about J.K. Simmons as Jameson. Obviously, the main cast of the last two films is almost surely under contract to return for the third one and would have done so whether or not the Sony-Marvel deal had happened. Jon Favreau as Happy would be the only question mark because he's a Disney-owned Iron Man-based character, so he couldn't have appeared in a Sony solo project, but now that Sony and Marvel have made up, I see no reason to think they won't bring him back. Simmons is a different case, though, because he was just doing a cameo in Far From Home and, although impactful, it was so brief that he probably shot it in a day. I wonder if his deal for the cameo included an option for the next movie or not. Considering what he did in his cameo, it seems clear that the intention is for him to return in a more significant presence in the next film, being the face of the media against Peter as he somehow untangles being framed for Beck's murder.

As for Mysterio, illusions and all, I would kind of be upset if he turned out to be alive. It depends on what they do, obviously, but I think the way that death was broadened out into the cliffhanger was so effective that it would sort of undermine things if he were still alive. I'm perfectly fine with it just being William from Iron Man 1 who released the footage to the Daily Bugle that outed Peter. Jake Gyllanhaal did a great job with Mysterio, but I think his usefulness as an alive character has reached its end.

 

[Sean Bryan]

I found this Facebook post from Mikey Sutton to be quite interesting:

SCOOP - 9/27/29: The deal is done just as I said it would while countless rage-bait comic-book sites and YouTube shows drank the Sony Kool-Aid and thought the door was shut. As I said, the door wasn't closed; it was still open.

Sony did The Takeaway, just like I had reported. And lost. Right now, Sony is trying to present themselves as victors in their sourcing to mainstream reporters, that Marvel Studios caved in last night. No, they didn't. The 25% take from Disney wasn't what Sony wanted; they wanted to keep it at 5%, if you recall. The resulting compromise shows which side won the battle.

Disney and Sony did a short-term contract for now because of time limitations. They needed to sign Jon Watts for Spider-Man 3 immediately, and Disney insiders tell me that he was willing to walk away if the next movie wasn't set in the MCU to pick up where Far From Home left off. The script had to be written as well. It's no coincidence that it's being revealed today that Watts is in final negotiations. Remember my leak about Disney offering Nova to Watts, which would pull him away from the next Spider-Man? Completely gangsta, yes? Did it work?

Marvel Studios is seeking to have Tom Holland appear in Secret Wars. Whether this is the non-Spidey MCU film in the agreement signed by both parties last night remains to be seen, but there is no doubt by anyone on the Marvel side that Spider-Man will be in Secret Wars. Not only that, but Marvel Studios is planning on having Spider-Man in a supporting role for The Fantastic Four as Reed Richards can be Peter Parker's new mentor.

This is only the beginning. As I discussed from the beginning, the collaboration is too big to toss away. There are discussions of Disney and Sony sharing a cinematic universe, an expanded Spider-Verse if you will, of specific IPs guesting in each other's films. But, right now, it's time for a victory lap.

Your fly in the ointment,

Mikey Sutton

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I still have issues accepting Facebook posts from someone who does not appear to be a credentialed journalist as a credible news source.

I felt that Sony and Marvel patching it up was a likely possibility. I felt Marvel and James Gunn working it out was a likely possibility. What’s the difference between me making those guesses and this guy writing on Facebook? He could be doing the exact same thing.

 

[TravisR]

I felt that Sony and Marvel patching it up was a likely possibility.

Yeah, corporations do tend to work out their problems so they can make another few billion more.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

The whole thing seemed like an attempt by each company to use public opinion to try to sway the other. It seems that Sony believed that between their two Holland films, Venom, and Spider-Verse, they had the public behind them, making a calculated assumption that most people don’t care about what company makes which film. And, in 99% of the cases, that’s usually the correct assumption.

Disney probably believed this case fell into the 1% and they were right.

Sony felt that they were entitled to Disney making their Spider-Man films for them for free, as a nonprofit endeavor. Disney didn’t feel that was a permanent solution. Disney now gets what it wanted all along: continuing creative control over the Holland version of Spider-Man and the potential to profit off of the films should they succeed.

The way I see it, Sony lost. They took a private dispute public because they thought they’d have the general public’s backing, hoping to either show Disney that they didn’t need them at all, or to pressure Disney into making more movies for them for free. They didn’t have the public’s backing, they didn’t have leverage to force Disney into giving them what they wanted for free, and they backed themselves into a corner.

Some will say Sony won because Disney is only taking on 25% of the franchise instead of the 50% ask that was previously reported, but I genuinely believe that was a negotiating position and not a final offer. It was a fair position for Disney to take, and it would seem that all of the players ultimately agreed that the overall proposal was proper.

See how easy it is to write like you’ve got inside info when all you’ve done is read the trades and just followed publicly available news of both studios and their franchises?

 

[Sean Bryan]

Word was that Disney originally wanted 25%.

Sony sat on that offer for months. Then Disney raised it to 50%, at which point Sony said no. Then someone leaked the info to bring public reaction into the negotiations. None looked great, but Sony looked worse in the eyes of fandom.

So Disney essentially got what they originally wanted. Sony may have gotten more involvement from Kevin Feige for their other “Venom-verse” movies, and those movie may now have an in to be linked to the MCU, but the details on that part are not clear yet.

 

[Sean Bryan]

See how easy it is to write like you’ve got inside info when all you’ve done is read the trades and just followed publicly available news of both studios and their franchises?

Dude, you’re more than capable of researching the guy’s posts yourself and coming to your conclusion about whether he is likely I have some legitimacy or not.

That’s what I did and based on that he seems to be legit.

If you don’t want to that fine, but you don’t have to take this kind of attitude about it.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I’m sorry Sean, I didn’t mean for it to come across that way.

 

[Sean Bryan]

I’m sorry Sean, I didn’t mean for it to come across that way.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Sony felt that they were entitled to Disney making their Spider-Man films for them for free, as a nonprofit endeavor. Disney didn’t feel that was a permanent solution.

Just chiming in on this point because I think you misstate the existing arrangement. Disney made boatloads of money as a result of producing Homecoming and Far From Home. They didn't have to put up any of the money to make the pictures, and they got the merchandising revenue from those movies. More importantly, they got to use one of the three most famous superheroes in the world to appear in three of their movies, two of which went on to make over $2 billion worldwide. The third had to settle for $1.1 billion worldwide.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I totally understand that. But my argument is, even with Sony paying the cost of the film production, Disney still has finite resources. There’s only one Kevin Feige and only so many hours in the day. If one third of Feige’s slate for the year is taken up, etc. Clearly, it was worth Disney doing so for the reasons you stated. But I also thought it was reasonable for Disney to want to be able to invest in the work they were doing. I just don’t think it was sustainable for one studio to simply pay another studio to keep making hits for them indefinitely. At a certain point, if you’re Disney, the studio’s resources are better directed elsewhere if you’re not getting something directly out of the movie. Yes, the merchandising for Spidey is huge. But what if, for instance, Feige misses an opportunity on another franchise that could have been the next Guardians or Iron Man because the production resources and talent are being used to make a movie for Sony?

The first deal was a genius move but I just don’t think it was a sustainable lifetime agreement.

 

[Jake Lipson]

Far From Home just ticked past $390 million to become the ninth highest-grossing movie in the MCU domestically, surpassing the $389 million final total of Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 (unadjusted.) It won't get past the next one, which is Civil War with $408 million.

https://www.boxofficemojo.com/franchises/chart/?id=avengers.htm

Far From Home isn't officially closed yet and could still be kicking around dollar theaters, but with its release on Blu-ray tomorrow it has all but gotten to the end of its theatrical run with a current gross of $390,153,495. As of yet, that's good for #5 this year underneath Endgame, Lion King, Toy Story 4 and Captain Marvel. I'm guessing that there will be at least a couple more movies that go higher than it before the year is out -- Frozen II and The Rise of Skywalker come to mind -- but it will probably still wind up in the top ten for the year with ease, and everyone involved is likely very pleased with that result. Its $160 million budget is actually less than Sony spent on Homecoming ($175 million), and they've obviously made a lot of money here.

Plus, of course, when you add in the international monies, the worldwide total is over $1 billion and is Sony's biggest movie of all time.

https://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=spidermanhomecoming2.htm

How much of the $15 million difference in reported budget on Homecoming and Far From Home came down to the fact that they didn't have to pay Downy this time?