International Sergio Leone Blu-ray thread (1 Viewer)

[DVDvision]

Agreed, all other versions don't count!

 

[Allansfirebird]

There's only 2 versions of GBU that Leone approved and put his name on and neither are available.....

I believe it was a joke...

 

[Osato]

There's only 2 versions of GBU that Leone approved and put his name on and neither are available.....

Which means more releases hailed as the new and improved!!!

Seriously though, is there any rumors on a uhd release?

 

[Jordan Krug]

Which means more releases hailed as the new and improved!!!

Seriously though, is there any rumors on a uhd release?

Haven't heard anything about a physical uhd release (unlikely since MGM lost the dollars licensing altogether) but 4k gbu is available here:

https://www.ultraflix.com/

Because the master was done in 2014 I doubt it would offer hdr?

 

[OliverK]

Haven't heard anything about a physical uhd release (unlikely since MGM lost the dollars licensing altogether) but 4k gbu is available here:

https://www.ultraflix.com/

Because the master was done in 2014 I doubt it would offer hdr?

Last I looked it looks much worse than the Blu-ray, unless you're a fan of accepting a low bitrate and filtering in order to get what Ultraflix calls 4k.

 

[Jordan Krug]

Last I looked it looks much worse than the Blu-ray, unless you're a fan of accepting a low bitrate and filtering in order to get what Ultraflix calls 4k.

Thanks for the info, good to know

 

[OliverK]

Thanks for the info, good to know

No problem and thanks for all your info throughout this thread and in the links provided - I will need all that info to decide on the best versions to watch for my upcoming viewing.

Thanks also for the very interesting work about the color timing on TGTBATU:
https://theeditroomfloor.blogspot.de/2017/04/current-issues-with-good-bad-and-ugly_59.html

It is very interesting that the actual cinematographer supervised the color timing for the Mondo release and went for a more traditional look even though it is a bit low on green.

 

[Jordan Krug]

Copied from the GBU thread on the blu ray forum (this will eventually end up as another blog post I suppose):

I wanted to illustrate further one of the issues with using the MGM 1998 dvd as the reference cut for the new Kino "theatrical version" (which Kino has hinted they are doing, but have not confirmed). In particular this scene, as Tuco's gang approaches, you can see "one of these is not like the others" and it's the MGM 1998 dvd. For some reason, not only does the 98 dvd incorporate some (but not all) of the Italian version shots into the American version - it actually re-orders a few of them. So effectively someone at MGM recut their own version of the scene, and it matches neither the 1966 Italian cut, nor the 1967 International (U.S) cut. Hopefully Kino will match the 1967 International (U.S.) cut as seen here on a 1967 35mm print and a 1990 laserdisc reference, as that is Leone's approved shorter version. I hope to hear that they caught this issue with the 98 dvd version themselves and have already avoided using it as a cutting reference?

 

[Jordan Krug]

http://theeditroomfloor.blogspot.com...-and-ugly.html

I have posted an update that summarizes and gathers in one place all my recent back and forth with Kino (Mostly on blu ray forum ) and in general explains why Kino should not be using the 98 dvd as their guide (and claim that they are releasing a "4K transfer of the Original Theatrical Cut"). If you've already been following these threads than you've already read all of this..but if you want clarity on the issue you'll find it there.

 

[Jordan Krug]

A further update for those looking to purchase Kino's upcoming GBU discs, they did attempt to fix the color and fix some of the transitions on the shorter cut, and they have some decent new extras. However they are misleading the consumer by claiming the shorter version is "the original theatrical cut". It's now been confirmed that despite all the warnings to avoid it, they used the 1998 DVD as a cutting guide, and in doing so replicated many of the differences/alterations of that particular cut. The 1998 DVD has over a dozen shot differences when compared to the original 1967 release. In particular, the scene of tucos gang approaching blondies hotel room was completely re-ordered/re-shuffled by the 1998 DVD editor for an unknown reason. This mistake has now been replicated by Kino. Unfortunately it's yet another compromised release of this masterpiece, and neither of Leone's cuts of the film are currently available on home video. Unfortunate as all the relevant information was offered to Kino whilst still in the editing phase and they dismissed it.

 

[Angelo Colombus]

There is a new disc review of the Kino's GBU on Blu-ray.com site and the reviewer says "the Kino disc looks colder, more restrained, returning everything to a less extreme palette" and "reverse the yellow fever, dialing down colors". I have the two blu-rays and the dvd 2 disc collector's set so not in a hurry to get a 3rd blu-ray.

 

[haineshisway]

A further update for those looking to purchase Kino's upcoming GBU discs, they did attempt to fix the color and fix some of the transitions on the shorter cut, and they have some decent new extras. However they are misleading the consumer by claiming the shorter version is "the original theatrical cut". It's now been confirmed that despite all the warnings to avoid it, they used the 1998 DVD as a cutting guide, and in doing so replicated many of the differences/alterations of that particular cut. The 1998 DVD has over a dozen shot differences when compared to the original 1967 release. In particular, the scene of tucos gang approaching blondies hotel room was completely re-ordered/re-shuffled by the 1998 DVD editor for an unknown reason. This mistake has now been replicated by Kino. Unfortunately it's yet another compromised release of this masterpiece, and neither of Leone's cuts of the film are currently available on home video. Unfortunate as all the relevant information was offered to Kino whilst still in the editing phase and they dismissed it.

Why are you regurgitating someone else's post - well, his endless posts - from that forum? Just curious.

 

[haineshisway]

As one of the few here or anywhere who didn't have any problem with the previous Blu-ray, Kino's mistake here was listening to those experts complaining of a urine wash, piss yellow transfer - over and over again. Those same exact people are now saying, "The last transfer was fine except for a few moments of too much yellow or green. You can't win with these people. I'm not going to comment on the new transfer until I see it, because unlike those elsewhere, I will not judge screen caps. The previous caps, which, by the way, is what most of these experts comment on, not actually having the previous disc, all have literally green skies. The folly there is that a simple viewing on the actual Blu-ray has not one green sky anywhere. ANYWHERE. So, either these caps are showing up on computers as green or something is wrong somewhere because if they have a display that has correct color and not some wacko's idea of what color is, they would not see green or teal in the skies - I see BLUE - sometimes pale due to the sky that day or sometimes hugely blue - not teal, not yellow. And as some may remember, I actually contacted the person who had my previous dye transfer print and we compared it on a light bed with the light adjusted to resemble carbon arc, which is what this film was timed for and I said right here it was very close to what I was seeing.

The fellow doing the endless complaining has several dye transfer prints (or so he says - in fact, he tried to acquire mine from the guy I sold it to, who was not interested) and he's posted caps (he, in fact, sent me a reel of his print and I could tell it was not timed properly for carbon arc) - again, posting caps from a dye transfer print without adjusting for a carbon arc light source is pointless. He also says he came here and saw Quentin Tarantino's personal dye transfer print at the New Beverly - as far as I know the New Beverly uses Xenon light, hence a problem in that you're not seeing the print with the light source for which it was timed.

So, Kino, in trying to appease all these "experts" whose knowledge of this film is based on video incarnations, remove some of what they blatantly called piss yellow and urine soaked. They do this and of course they cannot win because now they only should have done it to a few shots. I mean it's laughable and ludicrous. I'll be interested to see what the adjustment they did looks like, but Mr. Leone's palate was never not extreme in the westerns - they were sun-baked landscapes and faces. Anyone who saw these films originally know that - it's a very specific look. I'm not saying the previous transfer was perfect, as I would never say that, but it's pretty terrific in my book and on my TV. Lesson learned: NEVER listen to Internet comments from self-professed experts, most especially on other forums. It's a losing game.

 

[DVDvision]

Actually Kino didn't listen to the 'experts' they followed general users comments on that forum, which is always misleading because the web generate often "fake", emotional trends which have no relation to reality of the market. The fellow who posted caps got mostly ignored and none of his documentation was taken into account.

Nonetheless despite all the faults this new release a welcome addition, even if not definitive. BTW I still have an old VHS recording of the international cut of GBU on french TV from 1984, this was supervised by Leone and the first time any of his films was transmitted on french TV. Guess what, sky are teal on that one like the MGM Blu.

Keep in mind though that all the bonus features are botched and stutters according to two reviews already. So you still need to keep the MGM 4K master disc for those features untouched.

 

[Lord Dalek]

This is the problem I have with the kind of armchair "film historians" and restoration experts who hang arround at websites like Original-Trilogy and keep pushing lies and their own personal vendettas as the gospel truth. Case in point, the whole teal-orange thing where I've seen multiple posts both here and abroad complaining about the presence of a push and then I watch these discs either on a computer with flat settings or my 4k and it just ain't there. Is it user error created by years of this pallet being used in the DI era or just plain ol miscalibrated hardware? Or how about the one where if a film has any scene that doesn't look its an ant colony it means some agressive DNR has taken place but if its got a fairly sizable ant colony then its over-sharpened and edge enhanced or some other malarky. Those were just a couple of the criticisms heaved at the transfers done for this generally great Spielberg set I have. And don't get me started about the folks who think laserdisc transfers look more accurate to the "theatrical look" despite their limited color space and resolution.

Fact is the internet has been dumb for years and we're only getting dumber.

 

[YanMan]

Why are you regurgitating someone else's post - well, his endless posts - from that forum? Just curious.

Maybe because he is the same guy, different screen names?

To be fair to murch13's arguments over on the blu-ray forums, his main beef seems to be the incorrect edits from the 98 DVD "theatrical cut" that Kino seems to have failed to fully correct to match the actual US theatrical cut from existing prints.

Do you personally have any comment on that? Not sure if you have access to the 98 DVD to compare vs. your memories of a US theatrical cut print...

(edited this post as I originally asked about print vs. the existing MGM blu from 4k restoration, but that made no sense since the MGM Blu is of the extended cut anyway)

 

[PMF]

I am starting to get the sneaking suspicion that there are no definitive GBU prints to point to;
except the variable theatrical prints as seen by you, me and them.
Perhaps with each and every wave of distributed prints, the color-timings were varied from the start.
Just a thought.
Yup, I've paid attention to the criticisms of past BD incarnations and bypassed them all.
But there comes a point where being without serves no purpose, either.
I, myself, am looking forward to the Kino edition; as I suspect that they placed far more effort into their BD offering than that of their predecessors before.

 

[Lord Dalek]

I am starting to get the sneaking suspicion that there are no definitive GBU prints to point to;
except the variable theatrical prints as seen by you, me and them.
Perhaps with each and every wave of distributed prints, the color-timings were varied from the start.
Just a thought.

That's Dye Transfer for ya. There was no consistency in density or gradient from print to print and region to region.

 

[PMF]

That's Dye Transfer for ya. There was no consistency in density or gradient from print to print and region to region.

And let's not forget that despite the presence of American actors and our United Artists; GBU was also a foreign film.
One can only imagine the notes and specs between the labs at home and abroad.
Now, if the Leone Estate could dig up and supply us with Sergio's actual technical notes then maybe, perhaps, we would have something far more concrete to go on.

 

[DVDvision]

Actually there are, the Laserdisc from 93 is fairly close to the international cut + the french TV cut match it.

There's still no question that re-edits like this scene shouldn't be re-released on Blu, or any other format.Note that the only good version are 35mm and Laserdisc (Mondo and MGM 4K use the Italian edit whereas the MGM 1998 is reedited after the fact, probably on video).

If Kino matched the edit to the 1998 MGM, which seems to be the case, they butchered their cut on purpose. At last if they kept the italian cut edits, they would have kept a Leone supervised cut, even if it's wrong for the international cut.

If this was happening on any Kubrick film, people would go nuts. Why is this accepted for italian westerns, I have no idea.