1. Sign-up to become a member, and most of the ads you see will disappear. It only takes 30 seconds to sign up, so join the discussion today!
    Dismiss Notice

Roman Polanski (split from "NY Times 'Mystic River' review - overkill?")

Discussion in 'Movies' started by Tony_Ramos, Oct 5, 2003.

  1. Tony_Ramos

    Tony_Ramos Second Unit

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2003
    Messages:
    496
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Well, sometimes an actor puts their foot in their mouth so often and so deeply, it can be difficult to push their politics or personalities outside of your mind long enough to enjoy the film. And sometimes, in the case of Woody Allen or Altman, an actor may commit a wrong (in a person's estimation) so egregious and avoid punishment that one may not permit themsevles to support their filmmaking habit anymore.

    Does that make the audience simpletons? I think not. We're all human, and while seperating art from character may be a lovely ideal, it can be difficult.

    As for Penn in particular, his commments on Iraq were so ludicrous that I have trouble not chuckling anytime I see him onscreen. But congratulations to him on the reviews.
     
  2. Jeff Gatie

    Jeff Gatie Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2002
    Messages:
    6,531
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    5,610
    I know Altman is well known for his far left leanings, but are you sure you are not thinking of Roman Polanski?
     
  3. Tony_Ramos

    Tony_Ramos Second Unit

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2003
    Messages:
    496
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  4. Seth--L

    Seth--L Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Messages:
    1,344
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0


    By enjoying a Polanski film you're not condoning rape. Also, let's not forget that even though he's the directo, a lot of other people worked on the film.
     
  5. Vickie_M

    Vickie_M Producer

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2001
    Messages:
    3,208
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  6. Daniel J.S.

    Daniel J.S. Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    May 8, 2003
    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Anyway, if I remember right, Polanski wouldn't even be in the situation he's in if a judge hadn't overstepped his bounds; a plea bargain was agreed to on both sides, but the judge wanted to make an example, so he threw the plea out and imposed a jail sentence. What Polanski did wasn't right, but the judge had no right to throw out an agreement made by all involved just because he wanted to flex his muscles.
     
  7. Vickie_M

    Vickie_M Producer

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2001
    Messages:
    3,208
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  8. Lew Crippen

    Lew Crippen Executive Producer

    Joined:
    May 19, 2002
    Messages:
    12,060
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Excellent post Vickie. [​IMG]

    And thanks for reminding us of what really happened in the courtroom Daniel.

    Two things, I think: it is OK for anyone to decide not to take actions that would support a person whose actions, morals, political leaning, or pretty much anything else they disagree with, and the merits of art should not be judged on the basis of the morals or political positions of the artist.

    To not separate art and the artist from morals and politics results in art being judged not on its intrinsic merits but on criteria that has nothing to do with the work itself. This is far different than the work itself reflecting moral or political positions, which allows legitimate inclusion of such positions or actions into the discussion of the work.

    For example, that Martin Scorsese was brought up as a Catholic is not a reason for anyone who hates Catholics to comment negatively on his films—although it would be reasonable to not attend showings of his films or buy the DVDs of his films in order to avoid further enriching him. But including his background would be fair game for any discussion of The Last Temptation of Christ or Kunden to recognize only two of his films with religious themes.

    And it would be reasonable for many Christians to debate the treatment of ‘Last Temptation’ and to dislike the film solely for that reason. But not because he was raised as a Catholic.
     
  9. Chuck Mayer

    Chuck Mayer Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2001
    Messages:
    8,189
    Likes Received:
    411
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    Real Name:
    Chuck Mayer
    But Vickie, one of the key tenets of our justice system is that the victim does not, and should not, have jurisdiction over the punishment. Samantha Geimer's forgiveness is laudable, but irrelevant in the eyes of the law.

    As for the repeatability of his offense, we have no way of knowing. In France and Hollywood, art (or "art") is celebrated, and an artist may be forgiven many things. Child rape is a *behavior* far more often than an isolated incident. The man drugged and sodomized a 13 year old girl against her will. While the situation is not that cut and dried (her mother's culpability, the situation, etc), those key elements are not unclear. While the judge may have pursued the law with excessive zeal, and a chip on his shoulder, the law is too generous for my taste.

    Vickie, I can't express my feelings on the crime enough, but suffice it to say, we are far too lenient on it in my opinion. I don't forgive Polanski one bit...beyond the media circus, I doubt he has ever regretted it. I sympathize with the horrors of his life, but there is never any excuse. Not even close.

    I choose not to support him. Good discussion on a hot button topic. EDIT: This does not mean that I believe someone that sees his films, or appreciates them, is supporting anything he did. It's just a personal choice of mine.

    As for Penn, while I disagree with the man's opinions, he has committed no crime...just exercised his rights as an American citizen. No harm in that.

    Take care,
    Chuck
     
  10. Tony_Ramos

    Tony_Ramos Second Unit

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2003
    Messages:
    496
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  11. RyanPC

    RyanPC Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2003
    Messages:
    168
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Where have I been? What did they do wrong?

    EDIT: I know what Polanski did, though. [​IMG]

    There, how's that for not being vulgar? [​IMG]
     
  12. Nick Sievers

    Nick Sievers Producer

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2000
    Messages:
    3,481
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Grow up a bit, mate. I don't think there is a need to be vulgar.

    Tony, in my eyes - Yes, Polanski absolutely deserved to be rewarded for his work on The Pianist. I know not all agree around here but I thought it was an incredibly powerful and moving film, unmatched from the films that I viewed in 2002. He is being rewarded based on his art, his personal life had no effect on any awards and acclaim he recieved despite the dispicable crime he committed many years ago.
     
  13. Daniel J.S.

    Daniel J.S. Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    May 8, 2003
    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Chuck, no one is talking about the victim having jurisdiction over sentencing; we're talking about a judge who thumbed his nose at the law he's supposed to uphold. Plea bargaining is a major part of the criminal justice system where one confesses to a crime in exchange for a sentence agreed to by the lawyers on both sides. The judge basically tossed the deal, but used the confession as a basis for a lengthy jail sentence. This spits in the face of due process and sets a bad precedent for any number of other abuses. If Polanski stuck around he could have appealed and probably would have won.
     
  14. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 1999
    Messages:
    3,134
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The interesting thing is that,there wouldn't be any plea bargaining to begin with if the defendent wasn't a known celebrity.I also have a feeling that the Manson killing was thrown in for good measure,like Vickie did.I think if he stayed his sentence would have been reduced a lot,and people would have a different "look" on him.I think today many people just as angry with him because of the severity of his crime,and also with the fact that he dodged his responsibility,by fleeing.He will never be redeemed because of that.
     
  15. Chuck Mayer

    Chuck Mayer Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2001
    Messages:
    8,189
    Likes Received:
    411
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    Real Name:
    Chuck Mayer
    Lewis made my point. The sad truth of our society (then and now) is that the law is not equal for all Americans. Money and fame are incredibly potent, and lead to frequent injustices. Perhaps the judge felt Polanski was getting a free pass. Perhaps he wanted to make a name for himself. The judge didn't commit the crime. Polanski did, and he fled when he realized he couldn't buy his way out.

    As for Polanski winning the award, I had no problems with that. The raucous cheering at the ceremony was not for the film, but the man. Which is the right of the members. In short, perhaps his work deserved the award (haven't seen the film). But he didn't deserve to be there to get it.

    Take care,
    Chuck
     
  16. Daniel J.S.

    Daniel J.S. Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    May 8, 2003
    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    ^^^Well, we're definitely in agreement that the law is biased against the poor and minorities as they would get prison terms that the wealthy would never see. As per HTF rules, that's all I can say (and I'm probably on thin ice with what I did say!)
     
  17. steve jaros

    steve jaros Second Unit

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 1997
    Messages:
    499
    Likes Received:
    94
    Trophy Points:
    110
    Location:
    Baton Rouge, LA
    Real Name:
    Steve
    I'm amazed that Hollywood could ever confer an award on a rapist who hasn't even paid his debt to society, much less stand up at awards shows and clap for the guy. That's revolting.
     
  18. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Studio Mogul

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 1998
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    5,110
     
  19. Lew Crippen

    Lew Crippen Executive Producer

    Joined:
    May 19, 2002
    Messages:
    12,060
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Be warned that the following may fall into the ‘how many angels can dance on the head of a pin’ category.

    Here is a question for Chuck and those of you who choose to boycott Polanski films such as The Pianist. What is your stand on his films that were made before the rape? I’m thinking of something like Rosemary’s Baby. Would you watch that because he had not yet committed the act, or boycott on principle? And the same question as to watching one of his movies if it were shown on a commercial-free channel like TCM or Sundance? I’m excluding channels with commercials or ones that require a premium fee, as it could be argued that a portion of the money would find its way to him.
     
  20. Chuck Mayer

    Chuck Mayer Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2001
    Messages:
    8,189
    Likes Received:
    411
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    Real Name:
    Chuck Mayer
    Lew,
    Honestly, I don't put that much thought into it. I don't actively avoid his films. I don't purchase them, rent them, or plan to view them, but if I was to choose between watching The Pianist or Little Nicky on (even pay) cable, I'd probably go with The Pianist. It's easy to avoid, as I wasn't a big Polanski fan prior to my knowledge. But I don't deal with it in my everyday life. There are so many great films I haven't seen...skipping the few by RP is not a big deal.

    Again, I make no judgements on the fans of his work. Not even a little teeny-tiny one in the back of my mind that I don't tell anyone about [​IMG] I haven't seen Jeepers Creepers 1 or 2 (or Powder) either.

    No doubt I have seen and enjoyed films by men (or women) who've gotten away with things I'd consider reprehensible. I am not THAT naive.

    Take care,
    Chuck
     

Share This Page