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Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Dwayne, Dec 31, 2001.
Just caught this on theforce.net:
You know, it funny. A number of us here at HTF are saying there's no need to constantly compare LOTR and SW. There's more than enough room for both.
It seems that Lucas and Jackson aren't setting very good examples for us are they?
Yes, I saw it few days ago somewhere else. Actually it’s not bad, he is very polite! He is saying how the character is going to be and gives an example. He is not saying anything negative about Jar Jar. He is just giving an example that Gollum is not like Jar Jar! The bad thing to say is to say that they can’t do it but I can!
I find it really sad that he had to address the issue at all. It just tells me that there are too many people out there that have not read the books. What a shame!
comparing Jar Jar to Gollum is rather comical, given that Gollum wasn't seen much in LOTR and CGI-wise, didn't hold a candle to Jar Jar.
Now character-wise, we all know people's Jar Jar feelings, which is what I think Jackson was getting a dig in for, making sure fans knew he wasn't going to throw in 'comic' relief along the Jar Jar lines that Lucas did in EpI....
Do you mean that Gollum wasn't in FotR that much? Because he's in The Two Towers for half of the book (movie).
Yes, I should have put FOTR, not LOTR, incorrectly implying the entire series, thanks for the correction
We'll get to see how good the CGI people are at that point and can then compare Gollum to Jar Jar on a purely CGI level after that...
My basis for WETA's success has been the Cave Troll. Granted, the scene it was in took place in the dark, hiding some technical flaws that might have existed. Jar Jar's stuff mostly took place in sunlight, etc. The Cave Troll however was the most realistic CGI creation I have ever seen. I never once thought during the entire sequence (with the notable exception where Legolas was CGI'd as well) that it did not exist alongside the other characters. Gollum looked OK in his one scene, but not superior to Jar Jar. Hopefully, TTT will see him looking a little less "generated." As for why Gollum is not Jar Jar...that reasoning is simple. Jar Jar existed for ILM to show off...the story was written so George could push the envelope - in short, the story existed to serve the effects. Gollum is a focal point of LOTR - the effects serve the story.
From what I've read and seen, even from staunch LOTR fans, both PJ and Lucas have denied that either of them were making the negative comments that most believe they made. I even heard PJ went to Skywalker ranch and ILM sent WETA some software. I don't know how much truth there is to that, but it seems like the fans are more interested in turning this into a war between the two than they are.
As for Jar-Jar, he was always going to be in there, and Tom is correct. So the comment that it was a technical display is incorrect.
So Jar Jar didn't exist to show off CGI because it was originally going to be a suit with a CGI head? I am still not buying it.
Thanks for that info...I saw the documentary as well
That doesn't change my take on the situation. I am not attacking Jar Jar here (I am one of the ones that doesn't really care). Jar Jar existed to push the envelope. If what I said implied the story was only written with Jar Jar to be CGI, then I misspoke. The story was written for an alien to be comic relief and to showcase CGI (of his facial expressions, etc). When ILM realized how absolutely painful (and horrid) it would be to place a CGI head on a rubber suit, they simply decided to go whole hog.
To clarify: that is my opinion. I don't know what George was thinking. I have no quotes. Using TPM and the SE's for my basis, I came to the best conclusion I could. George cares about pushing the effects envelope as much as he does his films. Jar Jar's appearance is a result of that.
P.S. My point is: I am not incorrect any more than anyone else is CORRECT. I dropped an opinion. So did others. That certainly doesn't make me wrong.
"Meesa thinkin' you gotta throw da ring in da fire-pittin volcano! Pee-youza!"
I think that Lucas and Jackson see it better if they play off of eachother instead of against eachother. They are competing, but being friends about it, so they will both end up successful. In fact, I wouldn't mind seeing a collaborative effort between them.
Here you go, Craig: http://www.petitiononline.com/dgkomxpq/petition.html
I'm fairly confident that will work.
In all seriousness, as dissappointed I was with TPM, I have high hopes for ATOC and I wouldn't want anyone else but George to finish his creation. Who knows, maybe I'll have a greater appreciation for TPM after viewing the entire saga as a whole and completed work (assuming of course that it will be completed at one point with no further revisions).
I truly wonder if we have blown this whole thing out of proportion and if Lucas and Jackson are, in fact, mutual admirers.
It's funny he says that, since I've always thought of Jar Jar as a "good" Gollum. Both are pitiful, but exist in servitude of greater beings. Both are the source of trouble and aid for their storie's hereos. Both have an odd manner of speaking. Gollum is Jar Jar had he developed a second personality trapped by the snares of Sidious' mind tricks.
And technically speaking, while Gollum is defineately a more interesting and three dimensional character, what we've seen so far doesn't matter what they did with Jar Jar. But in the end, if his character is written well, and the voice acting is dead on, it won't matter. The cave trolls wasn't the best CGI I've ever seen. Far from it. But it didn't need to be to serve it's purpose in the film.
OMG, Dave, I was pretty much kidding. I can't believe there's a petition out there.
That petition is laughable. First of all, Lucas would probably laugh. Second, I admire what PJ did with LOTR, but I don't want him directing Star Wars. Third, it wouldn't happen in a thousand lifetimes. Does the person that created this have no life whatsoever. Just watch the movie and either like it or dislike it. As big a Star Wars fan as I am, it's just a movie.