Panny sa-xr25 digital amp receiver

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by Dale B, Jun 30, 2003.

  1. Dale B

    Dale B Stunt Coordinator

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    Well I went out and bought one of these Saturday. I have a hk avr-325 receiver and ar hc5 speakers, so you will know what I am using for comparison. So far the panny holds it own in all modes.In Regular fm stereo it outperforms the hk. Cd listening it also does a little better, and as far as dd movies it is pretty much a toss up between the two. I haven't used dts yet so I can't say. The panny has plenty of power,even though it is rated at 6 ohms. I haven't heard any distortion at all and I have had it pretty loud, but probably not reference levels. As far as looks, I really like how small and lite it is. Remember now this is just one mans opinion and take it for what it is worth. I think though that it is a keeper for me. I will give some more input when I use it a little longer. [​IMG]
     
  2. Kevin L K

    Kevin L K Second Unit

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    Hi Dale,
    Don't take this the wrong way and I'm glad you're happy with your new receiver, but are you serious when you state the Panny sounds as good as the h/k?

    The h/k's bass management is so much better it's not even funny. I do realize that with small speakers crossed over pretty high(100Mhz or higher)bass management is not that important but doesn't the crossover on the Panny only go down to 100Mhz? Yuck [​IMG]

    I've been looking at this receiver too but I just don't see how it can compare to the h/k. Can you elaborate a little more on the sound quality? Thanks Dale [​IMG]
     
  3. Dale B

    Dale B Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi Kevin. The crossover does only goes down to 100. That is where I have mine set. I have used it for almost a week now and am still very impressed for such an inexpensive unit. I to looked a long while before buying it. To me the sound is crystal clear. Very good highs,but not hard on the ears at all. Can't say much about the lows, as I have small sats. The sub output is very good and hits hard. As for the Hk, I actually think my avr-110 sounded better than the 325. I think where the panny shines is with digital connections. After I use it for a while longer I will add some more info. Bye the way, just watched a few scenes from Star wars AOTC and I heard much more sound from the rear channels than I did with the HK, and all my speakers are set at zero. Kevin, just remember that this is just my opinion and you may hear something completely different. [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  4. David G Greene

    David G Greene Stunt Coordinator

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    I love my AVR 110-Z. I be glade when I get it back from rat shack.



    [​IMG]
     
  5. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

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    Hi Dale

    Glad you really like the new Digital Panny, but have a few questions and observations...

    Did you calibrate both the Panny & H/K receivers when doing your comparisons???

    You mentioned all speaker levels were set to (zero on the Panny), which tends to leed me to believe the receiver/s were NOT calibrated with Avia, VE, or S&V and a Spl meter.

    This would be very important doing multi channel comparison (DD, DTS, etc) between the 2 receivers.

    Also the small speakers crossover should be set the same for both receivers, (100-Hz) when doing the comparisons.
    Tone controls flat and no loudness or midnight mode engaged.

    When doing comparisons between the 2 receivers, proper calibration of the stuff above is very important. Along with, once ready to listen at your seated position, the average Spl at your seat should also be the close as possible to the same ~{between the 2 receivers}~..

    Something like this maybe:
    75db average spl with peeks of 91db.

    Listening volume could be anything you want, just make sure the other receiver is being listened to at roughly the same spl.

    Regards
    Geoff
     
  6. Jonathan Dagmar

    Jonathan Dagmar Supporting Actor

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    I have the same reciever, just got it a week ago. It is my first reciever, and I don't know much about receivers at all, I didn't realize it was so comlicated, i bought it because it had all of the features I wanted at a good price, and it looks good to boot.

    The only thing that concerns me is that iot runs very hot, and the built in fan never seems to come on, and I don't know if this is normal or not.
     
  7. Dale B

    Dale B Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi Jonathan. I have since upgraded to the sa-xr45 because of a few extra features. Mine does run a little hot but not near as hot as my previous receiver,which I will not mention. I am sure the fan will kick in if it gets to hot.I turned mine up real load once and the fan did kick in, but usually don't when listening at normal volume.Have not had any overload protection what so ever with this receiver. Hope you enjoy yours as much as I do mine. One other note, when the fan did run I couldn't hear it at all.
     
  8. Wayne Ernst

    Wayne Ernst Cinematographer

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    Dale,

    Since you own the H/K AVR-325, why are you switching over to the Panny receivers ? I've been following the thread over at the AVS Forum -- and some of the digital features look pretty promising. However, I don't think there is enough there yet to make the move from the H/K 325. Just my .02.

    I can't wait for the 2nd or 3rd revision for the digital amps. Hopefully, some form of better bass management will be included - and maybe some other goodies. At that time, I will make the leap - but, it could be a few years down the road. [​IMG]
     
  9. Jonathan Dagmar

    Jonathan Dagmar Supporting Actor

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    unfortunatly the price differnce between the 45 and the 25 was too great to justify, especially since I am using it with an entry level Yamaha speaker package. Even so it sounds amazingly good, light years beyond my dads Pioneer HTIB.

    I did have some overload messags when I had my computer hooked into the unit to play MP3 files, but that was solved easilly enough. (my sound card has a absoluty agrivating habit of turning itself up, no, really!)

    I am not wanting for any features except for on screen display, I do really wish it had that.

    At least it has a 1 year warranty so if the heat issue doesn't cause problems by then it will probably be fine.
     
  10. DavidLM

    DavidLM Agent

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    You might want to read up on digital recievers on this thread. Some people think they are incredible.

    wwwavsforumcom/avs-vb/showthreadphp?s=&threadid=304368&highlight=panasonic+45
     
  11. DavidLM

    DavidLM Agent

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    You might want to read up on digital recievers on this thread. Some people think they are incredible.

    wwwdotavsforumdotcom/avs-vb/showthreaddotphp?s=&threadid=304368&highlight=panasonic+45

    note replace the letters dot with a .
     
  12. BruceD

    BruceD Screenwriter

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    Dale B,

    I'm interested in you responding to Geoff's questions about how you tested thew Panny against the HK.

    It is critically important to maintain Geoff's parameters when testing the two units. Did You? If not, please state the parameters of your testing.
     
  13. Dale B

    Dale B Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi BruceD. The parameters I used was none. All I used was the internal test tones, as I have always done and always will. If I set both up the same way the Panny speaker levels would be all set to zero. As for the H.K. the levels would vary to get the same output as the panny. The center channel would always have to increased by at least 4 and the rears maybe two. I didn't intend to offend any one on this forum, because I know there are allot of H.K. fans, as I was too. I had the avr-110 before the 325 and a ####### before that,not to offend those people too. Also when in a digital mode there is no delay between tracks of a cd or at the start of a dvd movie. Like I said earlier, when using a digital source is where the panny really shines. :b
     
  14. LanceJ

    LanceJ Producer

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    Umm, I think some of y'all are making this comparison too inaccurate by including too many variables: specifically, way too many speakers, & bass management circuitry. And using compressed audio formats probably isn't helping either.

    If you want to test the digital amp's quality, I would suggest doing this:

    * Use a CD player and its analog outputs as a signal source. This is to avoid introducing another variable--the receivers internal DACs. Sacd or dvd-audio will work too.

    * Two speakers only, operated within non-distorting volume levels. But since those HC5's are so small, using the receiver's b.m. is mandatory......unless you use the sub's internal speaker-level crossover. [​IMG]

    * Turn off any tone controls (or set them to "flat") & turn off any DSP modes.

    * Put barking dog/girlfriend/whatever outside and retrieve & open beer (all this is optional. [​IMG]).

    * Now hit "play" and start listening!

    For HT comparisons, start adding the variables back in but one at a time to keep things less confusing (testing a receiver's HT abilities is basically a test of pretty much the entire receiver, not just their amps).

    As far as a lowly Panasonic beating an H/K: Well, the Panny is using a totally different amp technology so this is not an unrealistic possibility.

    LJ
     
  15. BruceD

    BruceD Screenwriter

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    Dale,

     
  16. BruceD

    BruceD Screenwriter

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    Lance,

    The point of the Panasonic is that it will take a digital input stream and supply voltage/amperage to the speakers, doing the D/A conversion in the same process.

    This is why you may not want to test it with only an analog input stream that has to go through a second A/D then D/A cycle.
     
  17. kevitra

    kevitra Second Unit

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    As stated, with a 'true' all-digital amp/receiver, you WANT to feed it a digital signal. One very important part of the new digital amps is their digital processing. Using an analog signal will most likely not sound as good.

    Maybe it isn't a 'fair' comparison since you will have to use the DAC in the other receiver, but you are buying the entire unit (dacs/amp/etc).

    If you didn't, you really do need to use a SPL meter to level match the units.
     
  18. Nathan Porteous

    Nathan Porteous Stunt Coordinator

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    Holy crap hes just saying he likes it better, so what. hes not aloud to like it better I've heard very good things about the panny and to tell ya the truth i'm suprised the hk is still working after a year[​IMG]
     
  19. LanceJ

    LanceJ Producer

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    In my original post, I had also included as a test signal source a turntable and the FM tuner, but I deleted both because these circuits' quality can be much too variable, especially phono preamp stages (I don't think the Panasonic even has one?).

    So I decided on the analog output of a CD/sacd/dvd-audio player. I do realize the Panasonic's amp includes some type of analog-to-digital convertor (ADC) but that is a totally non-optional component, so that wasn't a concern for me (for all practical purposes, the ADC & the actual amplification components are one unit).

    I won't pretend to know the specs for the Panasonic's ADC but I can't imagine that these days it would introduce any significant signal degradation to an incoming analog signal (though the marketing types would have you believe if something's not "pure" digital, it will sound lousy--whatever! [​IMG] ) And that's the heart of my test here: not all incoming signals will be in digital form. As in the: FM and AM tuners (the tuning system is digital, not the actual music signal); turntables; sacd/dvd-audio (the hi-res signals anyway); cassette decks and non-digital VCR's. And IMO the sacd & dvd-audio sources in particular would be the best signals to use to "stress out" the amps & see what they can do.

    Though admittedly, a 100% thorough test might be to test both digital and analog inputs of that same source, just to cover all the bases.

    LJ
     
  20. Dale B

    Dale B Stunt Coordinator

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    Thank you Nathan.
     

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