***Official "Is OAR Doomed?" Discussion Thread***

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Clint B, Mar 15, 2002.

  1. Clint B

    Clint B Second Unit

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    I absolutely hate posting this here, but this latest decision (this time by Columbia-Tristar) to completely ignore all logic and the wishes of the directors and a sizable portion of the DVD buying public has made me really think that this could be it. I know that HDTV is supposed to be the future, and the future is widescreen (so they say), but with decisions like this, coupled with the absolute REFUSAL of the studios to educate the public, I don't know how much more we can do. Also, it would help if the widescreen sets came down considerably in price. Until all of these things happen, then I really don't know if our concerns will be listened to at all. I'm all for making money, but it seems like this is all the studios care about--artistic vision and consumers' wishes be damned.
     
  2. Ricardo C

    Ricardo C Producer

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    The fight isn't lost. Not by a long shot. But another type of education should be performed: Not only should we seek to educate J6P about the importance of OAR... We should be firm in our conviction not to buy MARred releases. Ever. I know it's tempting to say "well, they only had P&S. What was I supposed to do?" but we should try to avoid even renting P&S product. Let's not feed a dime into THAT animal. If a WS release is only available OAR in another region, buy that release (if your player can run it, of course). Let's show the beancounters where most of their money is coming from. P&S should be left to rot on shelves.
     
  3. Patrick McCart

    Patrick McCart Lead Actor

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    This is merely a scuffle!

    When EVERY DVD is only availible in the wrong aspect ratio, we lost.

    What we have here is a failure to communicate...

    We want FUTURE-PROOF DVD's, not crap that's the quality of non-HD HBO! All of these wrong aspect ratio (4:3's of 1.66:1-2.35:1) discs have not only TV-quality transfers, but they don't present the correct compositions.

    Whether it's the lack of matting or actual panning & scanning, it's not worth buying.

    If both versions are offered, that means more profits? You studios aren't purposely trying to lose money, are you?
     
  4. James Zos

    James Zos Supporting Actor

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    Full frame will win in the end. I'm sorry to say it, and I don't want to sound like a cynical bastard, but that is what I truly believe.

    Why?

    Because most people are stupid -- that's why. They want what they already have, they want what they are used to, and what they are used to, is an image that fills up their TV screen. End of story. Bye bye widescreen.

    If you think intelligence and taste will conquer mindless consumer conformity then you haven't been looking at the top of the music charts, the Nielsen ratings, the top box-office hits, the NY Times best sellers list, etc etc.

    The mundane, the familiar -- they always win.

    I'll still sign widescreen petitions because I think they're worth supporting, but I have no illusions about swaying the majority.
     
  5. paul o'donnell

    paul o'donnell Second Unit

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    At this stage I still think we can win the war.
    If worst comes to the worst I think the worst we can expect is P&S only releases on family films and big money blockbusters. But I would say dual releases are likely with the way things are going.
    As long as we have Criterion, films on home video will be presented OAR somewhere.
    Worry, but don't be paralysed by fear now [​IMG]
    *looks at second sentence*
    Now THAT'S a prolific vocabulary if I ever saw one [​IMG]
     
  6. Kai Zas

    Kai Zas Second Unit

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    So far the DVD business has been surviving on widescreen buyers. The p&s J6P's are just arriving to the scene. Do you realy think the studios will give up the revenue they get from the dvd-collectin', OAR-lovin', widescreen-pushin', special-and-collectable edition buyins' cinefiles we are that spend spend spend on the technology as well as on the software?

    I think these two groups will live in harmony for a while (except in R4, where a small war will erupt on account of Harry Potter), untill ALL 4:3 tv's have died and have been replaced by 16:9 models. We ARE getting there, it's just been slow going.
     
  7. Jason Hughes

    Jason Hughes Supporting Actor

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    You have to remember, the widescreen (common sense) people tend to but DVD's by the truckload.
    Even if every single DVD had a dual Piss & Scan release, Joe Six-Pack will just tend to pick up the occasional big tite like The Grinch, The Mummy, etc.
    That said, I still don't think JSP should be given a choice. Have widescreen jammed down their throats and many will eventually give in. Or, we could just shoot them all. [​IMG]
     
  8. ChrisMatson

    ChrisMatson Cinematographer

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    Along with what Kai said, as widescreen TVs replace 4x3 TVs, the widescreen (OAR) debate will become moot. They will still complain about the 2.35 ratio though... [​IMG]
     
  9. george kaplan

    george kaplan Executive Producer

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    It'll be a tough fight, but sometimes we win tough fights. If not, we'd all be buying divx, apartheid would be alive and well in South Africa, Germany/Japan would have won World War 2 and Joseph McCarthy's birthday would be a national holiday.
     
  10. Craig Cunningham

    Craig Cunningham Stunt Coordinator

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    No, we haven't lost.

    Actually we have the power to change the studios' behavior. The Willy Wonka debacle is a wonderful example of what can be done. We (the home theater community) purchase a lot of DVDs. If we insist on OAR, then they will have to give it to us... or risk losing big sales!

    Make sure you sign the Columbia-Tristar OAR petition.
     
  11. Todd_Brown

    Todd_Brown Second Unit

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  12. Mikko Rasinkangas

    Mikko Rasinkangas Stunt Coordinator

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    When 16:9 TVs have taken over, will we then see pan&scanning to 16:9 of 2.35:1 movies? Hope not.
     
  13. MaxY

    MaxY Guest

     
  14. Patrick McCart

    Patrick McCart Lead Actor

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    The LBX version of Willy Wonka sold a lot more copies than the open matte version on amazon.com. I think a few hundred more times, too. The Mummy Returns had a few more sales than the LBX version, but that's just revealing its audience. [​IMG]
    Most DVD providers (I don't really count Wal-Mart as a DVD provider. [​IMG] ) will carry ALL versions of a title. Whether it's the dozen versions of American Pie, The Mummy, and the Jurassic Park films, you can actually find your choice.
    Plus, keep in mind that filmmakers have influece over how their films are shown on video. It surprises me how The Fast and the Furious is widescreen-only while A.I. has a dual release. It just took an SE treatment to get The Goonies from being a DVD-10 to a disc with ONLY the widescreen version.
    Paramount, Dreamworks, and Fox are great supporters of proper presentation. Although Dreamworks and Fox do have pan & scan versions of some films on the way or out already, they do have an overwhelming amount of widescreen releases.
    If widescreen is dropped completely, the studios will lose so much money, it'll never happen. In fact, there's only a handful of pan & scan/dual release discs compared to the amount of non-OAR discs.
    On the other side of the issue...full frame is ok for some films. Pre-1953 films were shot at 1.33:1, so we do NOT need tilt-scan versions of those.
     
  15. JohnJB

    JohnJB Stunt Coordinator

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    This cropping 2:35 to 1:85 happens on dvd too, e.g.

    Kalifornia R1 & R2

    U-571 R2

    Boogie Nights R2

    these are my experiences, I'm sure there are a least a few more.

    Regarding loosing to p&s, maybe in America (I hope not, but maybe) but I very much doubt it in Europe, European production of 4:3 TV's above 21" has all but stopped!
     
  16. David Lambert

    David Lambert Executive Producer

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    According to Widescreen Advocate, the R1 Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country is also 2.35:1 cropped, to 1.85:1 I believe!
     
  17. Lars Larsen

    Lars Larsen Stunt Coordinator

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    Oh boy, have we had this discussion before? [​IMG]
    Whenever this discussion comes up, I usually state that there is a big difference between the US and Europe. The US mainstream consumer seem to be very slow in adapting to the widescreen TVs. In Europe on the other hand, widescreen TVs are spreading like wildfire, and it is sure to win in the end. Absolutely no question about that!
    So if things go sour in America, I guess American enthusiasts are just gonna have to go PAL and get their discs from Europe. Personally, I would love to see that happen, having imported almost all my DVDs from the US [​IMG]
     
  18. Michael St. Clair

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    All this 16:9 adoptance, which may NEVER happen in the US (there is no 'HDTV mandate') will do is result in butchery of every film that is not 1.85:1 (and only a small minority of films ever shot were composed for 1.85:1).

     
  19. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Studio Mogul

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    This thread has now been designated the Official Discussion thread for concerns about the future of Original Aspect Ratio on home video in general. (Specific titles can and should continue to be discussed in the threads relating to those titles.) Please post all views on this issue to this thread. Other threads started on the topic may be deleted without warning. Thank you for your cooperation.
    Michael Reuben
    HTF Administration
     
  20. gregstaten

    gregstaten Supporting Actor

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    I seriously doubt P&S will take over. Not gonna happen. As was mentioned earlier, there are some of us OAR folks that buy DVDs by the truckload. Heck, I probably own more DVDs than all the Joe Sixpacks in a ten mile radius combined. I know I own more titles than the three nearest video rental places combined.

    Joe Sixpack and Jane Boxwine aren't going to buy DVDs in the volume we do. And they aren't going to buy the depth of title. The studios will have to continue to provide us product in order to maintain their sales volume.

    Then again, if they do stop selling widescreen, maybe I'll finally be able to catch up with all the DVDs I already have!

    -greg
     

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