*** Official 2002 Major League Baseball Season Thread (1 Viewer)

[Robert Crawford]

As a life-long Yankees fan, I can't put into words my disappointment in this trade. What an awful trade from the Yankees perspective. There has to be another trade in the works for the Yankees because why have six established starting pitchers? Hernandez perhaps???????

Crawdaddy

 

[Tomoko Noguchi]

Georgy goes and buys himself another WS ring. Wow. How exciting.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Tomoko,

When Seattle makes their next trade before July 31st to improve their ballclub, would you accuse them of buying another WS ring?

Crawdaddy

 

[Phil L]

Robert,

I'd look for Hernandez to go to Montreal for prospects, before the Colon or Mondesi deals the Expos had scouts looking at El Duque and the local papers were talking up a trade.

This trade has given me insomnia. Not just Ted Lilly (who has been my favorite Yankee pitcher this year) but also Jason Arnold (one of the best pitching prospects in baseball) and John-Ford Griffin (a LF/DH AA prospect who hits a ton) for Weaver. I wouldn't have done it, but I could understand Lilly for Weaver straight-up, throw in the prospects and this is nuts.

(Sarcasm)Of course, we have to send our starter with the lowest ERA to Oakland, because they really need more pitching to beat us in a 5 game series. (Sarcasm off)

This isn't the way the Yankees built a dynasty. Bernie Williams was lousy his first couple of years and could barely single from the left side but they gave him time to develop. He wouldn't last 10 games now. I had hoped that they were going to restock the team with players from the farm system slowly enough so that the team wouldn't be over-burdened with too many rookies. Soriano and Lilly (kind of) last year, Nick Johnson this year, Drew Henson and Juan Rivera next year, Ford-Griffin 2004. I guess its just trade the prospects for whoever might help us RIGHT NOW and FORGET ABOUT TOMMORROW.

I'm simply disgusted with this trade.

 

[Robert Crawford]

That's my initial reaction until the Yankees really show their hand before the midnight hour strikes for August 1st. Jason Arnold and John-Ford Griffin were a pair of my favorite Yankee prospects.

Crawdaddy

 

[Tomoko Noguchi]

Robert,

When it happens virtually every year with the George Yankees then it is cause for concern. The rich get stronger and the regular teams who should expect a level playing field just have to put up with it.

We need desperately a level playing field. George has shown that he will open the wallet for anyone. Seattle will use their money as wisely as they can to have a contending team, but they can't spend $120, 130, 140+ million a year.

 

[Robert Crawford]

When your beloved Mariners make their trade move then I'll remind you of the rich getting stronger.

Crawdaddy

 

[Tomoko Noguchi]

Robert,

I'm just saying the Mariners (and the rest of baseball) deserve something to make this an equal opportunity season. Seattle has gone out and traded and spent just like other teams. It's just that the Yankees have gone beyond all reason in spending. We need him out of baseball. It's as if George thinks he deserves the trophy year in and year out.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Speak for yourself about getting Steinbrenner out of baseball! There are millions of Yankees fans that would disagree with you on that point, including me. Like most Yankees fans, I've had my problems with Steinbrenner over the years, but there isn't another team owner I would trade him in for and I'm pretty sure that the majority of Yankees fans feel the same way. Furthermore, this trade is being orchestrated by his baseball people because they have something up their collective baseball sleeves. Make no mistake about it, Steinbrenner gave them his permission regarding this trade and what's coming next, but his baseball brass are making these latest moves. Brian Cashman and Gene Michael are some smart cookies, however, I'm a little leery on what they're doing at this moment. Time will tell if my feelings change based on their next move.

Crawdaddy

 

[Joseph S]

Tomoko,

When Seattle makes their next trade before July 31st to improve their ballclub, would you accuse them of buying another WS ring?

How can you say that?

The Yankees are approaching a 33% lead in salary over the second highest paid team. At this point Seattle is operating at about $60 million less than the Yankees. They could add ARod, Floyd, and Thome and still not even be close.

It is the same thing every year. The Yankees start on day one $20 million ahead and then add $20+ million during the season. This doesn't include the $ they give for scouting and bonuses to non-draftable foreign free agents like Soriano, Mendoza, Rivera, Irabu, etc. There is no team outside of LA and Boston that could even come close in salary and even they would need to add $40 million in salary just to equal Georgie. I would not be surprised in the least either if he went ahead and got Thome and/or Floyd soon to fill DH/LF voids.

 

[Tomoko Noguchi]

Of course millions of Yankee fans would disagree with me on that point and want him to stay. After all, who wouldn't want to see winners year after year after year if you were a fan of that team with a man willing to spend whatever it takes to win a championship. However, millions of non-Yankee fans I think are getting tired of seeing it happen again and again and again and again.....and again. And after all we are not all Yankee fans around this world.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Spoken like a true Red Sox fan!

Crawdaddy

 

[Robert Crawford]

I guess nobody is perfect.
Crawdaddy

 

[Tomoko Noguchi]

I don't know how to react other than to say, the Mariners have never gotten to the WS and probably never will if the Yankees can have every superstar playing for them toward years end. Look at Mondesi. The man was languishing in Toronto. You can bet with the Yankees he will be reborn. Why is that? Because he knows that there is a man willing to pay his salary and that he now has a chance to win. You would be stupid not to want to play for that.

 

[Tomoko Noguchi]

With what has happened today, I hope a strike comes. I, for one, will not hesitate to stop watching what a farce the game of baseball has become.

 

[Seth Paxton]

As a life-long Yankees fan, I can't put into words my disappointment in this trade. What an awful trade from the Yankees perspective. There has to be another trade in the works for the Yankees because why have six established starting pitchers? Hernandez perhaps???????

No kidding. WTF is Big George doing. Mondesi and Weaver. Like Lilly was doing bad. 2nd year kid already threw 8 innings of 1 run at the Mariners and a shutout the other day.
So Tomoko, please explain how this trade or the Mondesi trade are examples of the Yanks buying a ring?
What are you sick of, the Yanks giving the A's a legit #4 SP for a .200 hitting 1B? Or are you sick of them scooping up all the .200 hitting OFers for themselves.
Signing Giambi to buy a ring, fine. (not that the Yanks own that market) But what you are complaining about sounds like someone that doesn't actually follow all MLB and prospects. Lilly is BETTER than Weaver. AND you gave up 2 solid prospects too. And other teams are mad why again?
The Tigers were pulling their hair out over Weaver and his attitude.
Let's see the deal from the Yanks side
Lilly 3-6 3.40 ERA, 1.06 WHIP, 59 Ks in 76.2 IP (.770 K/IP), 2 CG (1 was a shutout)
Weaver 6-8, 3.18 ERA, 1.19 WHIP, 75 Ks in 121.2 IP (.616 K/IP), 3 CG (all shutouts)
Lilly is 26 in his 2nd MLB season.
Weaver will be 26 in a few months and is in his 4th MLB season.
Lilly last year
5-6 5.37 ERA, 1.47 WHIP, .928 K/IP
Weavers previous 3 years
9-12 5.55 ERA, 1.42 WHIP, .697 K/IP
11-15 4.32 ERA, 1.28 WHIP, .680 K/IP
13-16 4.08 ERA, 1.32 WHIP, .663 K/IP
He is well below his career ERA and WHIP efforts at this point (maybe it's just starting to click). He also griped about Garner all last year, first for being yanked to soon, then for being left out too long.
You are talking about guys only about 7 months apart in age, very similar results in ERA and WHIP, though Lilly is doing it sooner in his big league career, and Lilly is a much better strikeout pitcher.
I wouldn't trade Lilly straight up for Weaver, let alone throw in 2 prospects.
Weaver is all hype right now as the "guy to get", but the Yanks had the same guy already on their team. Another case of George buying EVERYTHING, both the good and the garbage. To me his mistakes damn near match his good buys.
One other thing, how about the real team "buying a ring". Who was the #1 ace available this summer? Colon. Went right to the 2 All-Star starters powerhouse bully Expos.
The point? ALL TEAMS DO IT, not just the Yanks. Even the big money Mariners will try to do it. The M's are spending WAY more than the A's right now, guess that means that the M's have simply bought themselves another AL West crown. You are right, what a joke.
To me the only teams buying a ring are the A's and the Expos, because those are the two teams so far that have actually made themselves better at this point.

 

[Tomoko Noguchi]

Seth,

Of course you will get a lot of disagreement from people who are not Yankee fans like yourself and Robert. I don't expect Yankee fans to agree with me.

The "big money" Mariners are on a budget as are most other teams around the league other than the Yankees. Their budget was $88 million and they are now at $90 million.

Seattle also was interested in Weaver and it was obvious that George picked him up just so Seattle wouldn't have a chance at him. After all, George is most concerned about Seattle when it comes playoff time. Now that could be called good strategy by some...whatever. Seattle getting Weaver did not concern me, nor did I think he would be what Seattle needs. What Seattle needs is a left handed power pitcher.

Ted Lilly was a good pickup. However, his pitching against Seattle this year was a fluke. Last year he was hit all over by Seattle and would be in the future.

And finally, I do follow baseball quite religiously and do know what is happening even though I live in Japan.

 

[Seth Paxton]

Having lost Alex Rodriguez to free agency, the Mariners outbid all other major league teams for the exclusive rights to perennial Japanese League batting champ Ichiro Suzuki, and then spent millions more to sign him.

Poor poor Seattle, if only the spending was fair, right?

Mariners opening day payroll = $80m

A's opening day payroll = $39.6m

So the Yanks outspending the M's by $45m is wrong, but the M's outspending the A's by $40m is okay? Nice one.

And payroll ratios Yanks/M's = 1.56/1

M's/A's = 2.02/1

The M's are spending more than TWICE what the A's are. That's WORSE than what the Yanks have done to the M's.

And why is the Yankee payroll so high, because of all the FA they buy? Well, a little, but it also has to do with paying their guys more despite them being equal to lower paid players on other teams.

Is Jeter $5m better than Nomar? Is Bernie $7m better than Garrett Anderson? Is Pettite $9m better than any A's pitcher, or Armas Jr, or $7m better than Weaver?

I'll tell you what, we trade Jeter for Nomar, Bernie for Anderson and Pettite for Hudson. Yanks payroll drops to 3rd highest and the team is better than they were.

Spending does not equal winning. Good spending equals winning. Of the top 10 spending teams we have 3 with losing records, yet again. It happens every year.

And of the 10 lowest payrolls you have:

#29 Expos .529 2nd place

#28 A's .570 2nd place

#27 Twins .563 leading division

#25 Marlins .512

#23 Reds .529 2nd place

Sure several of those bottom 10 teams are last place teams, but then so is the #3 spending team, so what is your point.

Try to get some correlation between facts and theory before whipping it off on us.

To win it HELPS to spend, but it's a damn sight short of any guarantee. Spend in the top 10 and you have a 70% chance to have a winning team. Spending the bottom 10 and you have a 50% chance. I say take the $100m and pay for your team for 2 seasons, one of which the odds say you will be a winner. And this is the 4th year in a row I've had to do this analysis for some debate over it. Every year the results are similar. Low spenders manage to win, big spenders manage to lose.

The key is to evaluate talent and spend wisely. Any dipshit can write big checks.

 

[Seth Paxton]

it was obvious that George picked him up just so Seattle wouldn't have a chance at him.

Yeah, that makes sense. Send Lilly over to Oakland so that they can pass the M's and then face the Yanks themselves where Lilly can come back to hurt you.

Good plan. It's not like they traded Lilly to non-contender or the NL here.

 

[Tomoko Noguchi]

Seth,

Your ranting. That's not bad, but do remember you are a Yankee fan first and foremost. You want to see the Yankees win...again.

While Seattle is one of the supposed big spenders, keep in mind what seperates the biggest spender and number 2...$40-50 million.

And also remember George isn't worried about the other teams in the AL right now. He's worried about the Mariners and the Red Sox. If he were worried about the A's he wouldn't have had Lilly traded to them in the first place.

Would Seattle still be in first if Giambi were in Oakland? You bet.

Also, bringing out facts about the lower money spenders is misleading. The fact is George is spending well over $130 million this year to bolster their team