New Miyazaki/Ghibli DVD set out now (China, Region 0, NTSC) (1 Viewer)

[Jeff Kleist]

Dan, I called my cousin in Seattle, and the store he took me to is very NEAR Scarecrow, in a very similar building. It was not Scarecrow and I apologize on that. That store was wall-to-wall tapes copied from Japanese TV and LDs.
However, they still refused to even entertain the fact that those discs are boots, and I still have no qualms in reporting them. I have done the same to stores I have frequented on other material (SM CDs, selling/renting fansubs). In each case I did the same. Call/tell them that they're selling boots. They don't care, so they get it.
Jeff Kleist

 

[Michael St. Clair]

What an eloquent and articulate rolling-eyes smiley, Mike. Consider yourself rebutted, Jeff!

Anthony, my 'rolling-eyes smiley' was not in response to Jeff's asserting his 'proof', but rather in response to his insistence of refusing to take it to another thread as I suggested (while paying lip service to that same suggestion).
Since now you are trolling me as well, I'll go ahead and step to the same level. Sure is great getting the last word where a discussion doesn't even belong.

The 'proof' referred to is not proof. At first, during the original Twin Peaks debate, the argument was centered around the professional appearance of the product and the fact that studio logos appear on them; both of which applies to some known bootlegs. Various versions of 'proof' were then asserted, with the various articles posted by Jeff being the latest 'proof'. The latest implication is that Spelling licensed Warner Bros the Asian rights, and that Warner Bros sublicensed the rights to Catalyst Logic. All of this from press releases and statements that do not explicity mention Twin Peaks by name or some other domain of titles by year, or list, or a mention that all titles controlled by Warner Bros have been sublicensed to CA. Hollywood is all about getting credit, and anybody who has their hand in the rights of something gets their name and logo on the product. The fact that the Catalyst Logic release does not mention anything about Warner Bros is a chink in the armor of this argument. Also, if Warner or Spelling is licensing region-free titles anywhere in the world, such an agreement is so against the norm for the industry (Hollywood studios) that news of these contracts should be covered on the front page of Variety!
I continue to agree that my opinion is just that, an opinion; one that is so unpopular that it makes at least a few people very angry. If anybody doesn't agree with me, just buy the title and be happy!
I'll change my mind when somebody from Spelling Entertainment acting in an official capacity confirms that the title is legit. This has not happened yet.

 

[Jeff Barlow]

However, they still refused to even entertain the fact that those discs are boots, and I still have no qualms in reporting them.
Frankly, if I got a snotty call from a private individual on the opposite coast that's taking it upon himself to be judge, jury, and executioner, I'd be inclined to be sarcastic too.
[Edited last by Jeff Barlow on September 23, 2001 at 01:37 AM]

 

[David Lambert]

Frankly, if I got a snotty call from a private individual on the opposite coast that's taking it upon himself to be judge, jury, and executioner, I'd be inclined to be sarcastic too.

Jeff Barlow: You have a point. Not that you HAD to stoop to calling anyone "snotty" or otherwise being insulting while making your point; it was still valid without any name-calling.

Jeff Kleist: While Mr. Barlow was a bit sarcastic himself while making his point, it IS a valid thought. Don't be upset, because I'm on your side. Listen, though: First, did you speak to the owner, or just whoever was running the store at the moment (or even just some flunky who answered the phone)? Obviously, subordinates at any level will be inclined to keep their job and listen to the big boss a lot quicker than they'll believe a long-distance phone call in effect accusing them of illegal activity.
And second, let me bring up another angle to view Mr. Barlow's point. Bear with me a sec while I make it.
I spent 13 years as a manager of a retail store in a big chain. I hired loads of people in that time. Our company policy was to go over a particular orientation checklist that familiarized them with company policy. One of the items on that checklist was the "Open Door Policy".
I'm sure many of you work for companies with such a policy, whether or not they really practice it! It says, in effect, that you can bring any issue up with any boss at any time (although they usually prefer you to go through the chain of command, so to speak).
I would always explain the policy to my new hire, and then add something extra. It went something like this: "Look, I want you to know that you can always tell me whatever you think you have to say, no matter how bad, whether it's work related like 'That was a dumb command', or whether it's personal like 'you got bad B.O.'. You can tell me ANYTHING you want to, and I won't just fire you or otherwise retaliate for letting you speak your mind. But keep in mind that I'm human, and if you tell me I've done something wrong, my first impulse will be to act defensive about it. I may get upset, tell you that you're incorrect, here's why, and go mind your own business. Everyone does that, and I'm not gonna be any different. But keep in mind that I'LL LISTEN TO WHAT YOU SAID, and I'll be thinking about what you said. In fact, in most cases I'll come to you in a day or two and apologize, and agree that you were right, and here's what we're gonna do about it. To facilitate that, it would help if you are polite to me when you tell me whatever it is you think I screwed up."
You'ld be amazed at what kind of constructive feedback that got me through the years. Not everyone trusted me, but those that did helped me run, one at a time, 4 of the most successful stores in the chain.
So here's the point. No matter how "snotty" you might have sounded to the guy at Scarecrow, whoever he was in their chain of command, he might have hung up with you acting one way, but still thinking about it. If he wasn't the high-muckety-muck, he still might have said something to the right guy and gotten the ball rolling. Hey, even if they don't think you are right, the threat of action from the lawyers at Disney or MPAA is probably enough to let any sane person think about it enough to check it out.
So I'm saying that your call to them might have served its purpose. You should still call the authorities, too. But by the time they get there, it might be moot.
If your cousin in Seattle is on your side in this matter, then perhaps he can check up on them, both before and after any action by the authorities. Before, to see if they did any house-cleaning based on your warning. After, to see if they didn't just make the cleaning-up a "temporary ass-saving measure" until the coast was clear.
------------------
DAVE/Memphis

Did you want us to respect your cause? You just damned your cause.
Did you want to make us fear? You just steeled our resolve.
Did you want to tear us apart? You just brought us together.
http://www.miami.com/herald/content/...ocs/000565.htm

 

[Jeff Barlow]

Scarecrow does carry the entire Something Weird VHS catalog, and while not always professionally packaged, these tapes are 100% legal and licensed from the rights-holders. These films probably amount to 1% of their entire collection.
The rest is either current or out-of-print tapes, all of which are in their original factory packaging - some of which might be two decades old and not always up to modern standards. People claiming otherwise either haven't been in the store or have an axe of their own to grind.
Charges that "half their rental inventory" is on blank tape are garbage, and claims that they might engage in "house-cleaning" are utterly baseless.
I didn't call anyone "snotty" but was refering to the general tone of the phone call described by the poster. I think that's pretty clear in my original post.
[Edited last by Jeff Barlow on September 23, 2001 at 12:13 PM]

 

[Kong Chang]

Okay, calm down people. Let's not resort to Kindergarten tactics of name-calling and pointing-fingers-of-accusations.
Most of us already know that most DVDs sold in Hong Kong tend to be illegal or of illegal-tender, and they are now getting harder and harder to recognize if they are legit copies or bootlegs because bootleggers are getting better at disguising the product by making it look more legit (maybe for the fact that printing cost and silkscreening is getting cheaper?).
Anyway, whether or not the Region 0 Ghibli Boxset 12 movies on 6 DVDs is legit or not should not matter. If people are truly wanting legit tenders of the movies, either 1) buy the R2 DVDs when they come out (and at 4800 Yen a pop, that's pretty cheap for R2 DVDs), or 2) wait until Disney/Buena Vista gets off their arses to produce the rest of the Ghibli movies onto DVD (which will most likely be never until much later down the road).
No one should accuse people of supporting bootlegging. This forum does not condone it. But before anyone starts flaming anyone for supposedly supporting bootlegs, please check the disc for yourself or call the headquarters in Japan to see if the license was given to the company to produce the DVDs in the first place. If not, then it is a bootleg, and your anger is justifiable. If it is licensed, then y'all need to take a chill pill and quit calling the kettle black.
Anyway, isn't this supposed to be a "happy" forum?
Let's all be happy. Make "love" not "war".
And as Vash would say in Trigun (the anime series), "Love & Peace!"

 

[Matt_Stevens]

quote: Most of us already know that most DVDs sold in Hong Kong tend to be illegal or of illegal-tender[/quote]
Look, that is NOT TRUE! The vast majority of DVDs sold in Hong Kong are legit products released through Universe, Mega Star, China Star, Mei Ah or Media Asia. Most of those companies do suck (especially Media Asia) and the products they put out are lackluster (and never 16X9) and worse, they allow their films to rot in vaults that are not climate controlled, but their DVDs are NOT bootlegs.
There IS a bootleg problem from Asia, but to say that the majority of titles sold over there are illegal is flat out wrong. If you insist on saying otherwise, then please give us the facts to back it up, such as an FBI or Interpol study or an article from a major newspaper.
------------------
www.deceptions.net/superman
[Edited last by Matt_Stevens on September 23, 2001 at 07:45 PM]

 

[Jeff Adkins]

This reminds me much of the Twin Peaks DVD, which many people continue to insist is legit despite warning signs and no confirmation from the rightsholders.

I hate to get into this again, but I just cannot let these unsubstantiated claims go without a reponse. Michael, you have provided zero evidence that the Twin Peaks disc is a bootleg. You have mentioned Warner time and time again, despite the fact that Warner has never owned or released it in Taiwan. Warner has no interest in this Taiwanese release at all. All previous releases of the pilot in Asia were from licensed through Spelling's Worldvision label (which eventually became part of Republic). You have mentioned the fact that it is region 0 despite the fact that region 0 releases of offical licensed product are often non-coded. Universe Laser just released (from a license through Artisan) Robert Altman's Dr.T And The Women in Taiwan. It is non-coded, here is the link to the disc. You have mentioned the fact that it is from a PAL transfer means something. Matt Stevens (HTF's resident Hong Kong expert) has complained about numerous Hong Kong discs being struck from PAL transfers. It is (unfortunately) a very common practice. You have claimed that the original unaltered pilot was never released anywhere without the phony ending. You obviously didn't research this, since the Japanese LD box set had the original ending.
The fact is that Catalyst Logic has licensed several titles from Republic/Spelling. Here is the list of official Republic titles licensed by Catalyst Logic for sale in Taiwan. Catalyst Logic also has official licenses from MGM Home Video to release DVDs in Taiwan as evidenced by this story (referenced in an earlier post) from an Asian business news wire. Michael, do you really think MGM would license titles to known bootleggers?? And if Catalyst Logic are indeed bootleggers, why would they even bother to pay the licensing fees to MGM??
I also believe that if the Twin Peaks set were a bootleg, DVD File would've been asked to remove their review of the disc.
As for the Ghibli set, I'm convinced it is a bootleg.
Jeff

 

[Kong Chang]

Matt,
Take a chill pill.
If you know for a fact that they are legit, then prove it. Don't get hot and anger that we are saying that they are bootleg.
As most of us Asians know, anything bought in the the major bootleg countries are bootlegs and not legit copies. There are rare legit copies being sold.
We all know where the boots are, and we even know retail stores sell boots...even the respectable ones.
Just to say that someone as respectable carries this boot doesn't mean that the DVD/VCD/VHS or whatever is legit.
Japan stuff (videos and cds) is easier to distinguish from bootleg and legit copy.
K.C.
[Edited last by Kong Chang on September 24, 2001 at 01:10 AM]

 

[Tom Oh]

Kong, your statement about HK is general and unfounded. I have been in HK since this past March and most of the DVDs I've seen are legit HK copies or region 1 copies that are imported. HK has made strides in curving pirated VCD and DVDs. Now if you were talking about Malaysia or Philippines, or China (HK excluded), then I could understand. You are in CA not in HK. As far as legitimate retail stores in HK, I have not seen anything illegal. I'm sure that if I look really hard, I will find a stall that sells pirated goods, which is not easy to do. Please do not make general comments without facts to back it. Your comment to Matt asking him to prove that HK DVDs are legit is absolutely ridiculous. Matt is quite right and you should apologize.
------------------

 

[Kong Chang]

Tom,
I will not apologize because this thread has *way* deviated from the original post header about anime bootlegs in HK. ANd I assure you, most anime DVDs and VCDs in HK are bootlegs and not licensed products... Of course, there are a few companies that do license, but most products found in stores are bootlegs and not licensed products. There are not many truly licensed legit anime in HK. There's too much anime for too few a company to be able to license all the ones that exist in HK today. So, there are more illegal copies of anime than there are legit tenders. (Plus, license cost from Japanese anime studios is expensive and there's no way these companies can recover licensing cost at the price they are setting most of these DVDs at.)
I think the whole point that Jeff K. was trying to get at was that anime, as a whole made in H.K., are unfortunately unlicensed products sold as legit when in reality they are bootlegs. The Miyazaki/Ghibli 12 movies on 6 DVDs is one of these "it almost looks legit, but ain't" DVDs.
This thread has gone way out of hand and should be closed by the moderators, especially now that it's gone into a flame war.

 

[Matt_Stevens]

If you know for a fact that they are legit, then prove it. Don't get hot and anger that we are saying that they are bootleg.

Just WHAT exactly are you referring to? The Miyazaki boxed set in question IS a bootleg. I say so a few posts back.
However, the assertion that "most" or "the majority" of DVD's sold in Hong Kong are bootlegs is flat out false and people like you seem to refuse to provide any data to back up your claims. You actually think that people should prove the DVD's are legal! That's not the way it works.
I was not and am not angry (you seem to be in your latest post, where you ask that the thread be closed). I am, however, growing impatient with this ridiculous notion that everything in Hong Kong is illegal and that's that. It's just absurd. The vast majority of DVDs sold in Hong Kong are legal, from studios like Mei Ah, China Star, Universe, Mega Star and Media Asia.
It is also a fact the the vast majority of bootlegs that are created come from Asia. But that does NOT make all Asian products bootlegs. I have friends in Japan and Hong Kong and have asked them about all this and they all laugh at the statement that most everything sold in Hong Kong are bootlegs.
UNLESS you are referring to VCDs. They are cheap to produce, so they are bootlegged the most. That is an unfortunate fact.

------------------
www.deceptions.net/superman

 

[Jeff Kleist]

Kong, the problem is you're making generalizations. What you MEAN is that 95% of all ANIME DVDs sold in Hong Kong are bootlegs. THIS is true. However, there are many legit (though still crappy quality) companies that sell DVDs of HK and US films that ARE legit.
Jeff Kleist

 

[Jeff Adkins]

This thread has gone way out of hand and should be closed by the moderators, especially now that it's gone into a flame war.

I don't think so at all. I think these lively debates are a lot more interesting than the same old threads like "So, who else is going to buy the Godfather Trilogy?? followed by a zillion "Count me in" posts. No one has attacked anyone personally, rather their are different points of view on these issues. I don't think pointing out flaws in statements that others have posted is a flame. The reason this forum is so valuable is the true exchange of ideas in a civil manner without the name-calling and profanity that is on Usenet. I certainly hope disagreements don't become reason to shut down threads.
Jeff

 

[Anthony Thorne]

Hey, I'm enjoying this discussion. No need to close it.
There are a number of Chinatown video shops here in Melbourne, and they sell a great deal of HK DVD's. Pretty much every one I've seen seems legit. The QC isn't always the greatest, but they look official. Companies like Universe that are doing film restorations on Category III titles like DAUGHTER OF DARKNESS, or new widescreen transfers (with removable subs) of stuff like RED TO KILL, must be getting their elements from somewhere.
Does anyone agree with me that seeing boots of the Ghibli films hit DVD is a bad thing? I'll reiterate that I'd hate to see the official Region 2 DVD's of Ghibli product be affected by the proliferation of boots. I'm still looking forward to buying that official TOTORO DVD, and winced when Ain't-It-Cool posted that brief mention of the bootleg set a few days ago. I'm looking forward to supporting Miyazaki and Ghibli officially by buying their legit product. The specs on the TOTORO disc look damn fine. I wish the two(!) 3-disc sets of MONONOKE had subs though...
Poker Industries have a couple of nice DVD sets of Lars Von Trier's THE KINGDOM, which I presume are not boots. The States/Region 1 can't be the first to get EVERY DVD title, and just because something is hotly desired in the USA doesn't mean that an overseas (Asian) release has to be a boot. I really should pick up that TWIN PEAKS pilot while I can.
Just my two cents. Everybody else, feel free to hoe back in here and flame/debate/argue away, (in that civil and articulate HTF style we all know and love)...

 

[Rob Gillespie]

Just everyone keep it civil - OK? Remember also that we are 100% against bootleg titles on this site.
Thanks
Rob