Is this ISF calibration quote a little high? (1 Viewer)

[Tim Jin]

Thanks Gregg. I'm waiting for my tax return .

 

[Gary Seven]

Gregg came down to the Boynton Beach area in Fla and did my set. I can recommend him whole heartedly as well. The difference was astounding. I found the whole process facsinating and Gregg took the time to answer my questions.

 

[Michael TLV]

Greetings
And the reason the Panasonic costs a little more is because the HD section must be calibrated as well in order to get the 480P section to look right.

Think of it as doing 1.5 grayscales ...

Regards

 

[Mike Wladyka]

i don't mean to offend any of you isf calibraters, so please don't take it that way. how accurate can an individual get to the job that you guys do with calibration disc of their own such as DVE or AVIA? i am not trying to be rude, just asking a question. but would it be 50%, 80%?

thanks,
mike

 

[ChrisWiggles]

Mike: calibrating grayscale requires a colorimeter and approprate software, which for quality equipment can run into the thousands.

You *can* learn how to do all this, but it is a lot to learn, (I haven't learned it!) and it can go way beyond just basic Avia calibration plus grayscale, to expert tweaking and modification of your set.

Still, basic calibration is very easy, and will still probably get you pretty close. It also depends a lot on the display. But (a good) ISF calibration involves a lot more than just setting the basic picture settings on your set which Avia/VE help you do on your own.

 

[Michael TLV]

Greetings

If you know what you are doing, you can get it pretty close.

If you know what you are doing, you don't ever need to take your car out for tune ups either ...

The service is geared for those that do not want to spend the time researching and learning how to do this themselves. For these people, the cost of the calibration is far outweighed by the cost of their own time invested into doing it themselves.

Cost versus Time.

Figure in fear ... fear of screwing up ...

Before I started doing calibrations on a professional level, I did my own stuff. Figured it out myself and did it myself. Just needed the heavy duty equipment to get the final grayscale step correct ... which BTW ... you can rent for $300 for 30 days from the Milori company if you want to learn it yourself.

Now if you just used a test DVD and followed the instructions ... you are probably 20% of the way there.

Regards

 

[ChrisWiggles]

And experience. Experience is huge.

As a relatively unexperienced CRT FP owner, I can appreciate the value of not spending weeks fiddling and tweaking all the time, and doing the setup many many times to get better at it. If I had the cash I'd get it set up by a pro, but I value knowing how to do it a lot. I find it fun. Most would not.

IMO, basic calibration is a lot more than 20% but its impossible to put a number on it. A basically calibrated display will be PROFOUNDLY better than an out of the box one. ISF-type calibration added to that is not an insignificant improvement, but certainly not as huge an improvement. It does get you "there" though.

 

[Michael TLV]

Greetings

Mind you, a disc does not teach you how to focus your TV if it is out of focus. It just teaches you user controls.

What's a focused image worth to you ... that's the problem here. It's all really subjective when you start comparing one tweak versus another ... as different people feel differently.

It's like I'd rather have a focused image than a proper grayscale ... anyday ... if I had to choose.

And what about bad convergence ... what's that worth ... or bad geometry ...? The disc does not help you there either.

Of if you had an RPTV and the right side was all red tinted compared to the rest of the image ... what are you supposed to do about that?

Regards

 

[Mike Wladyka]

Thanks for the info, it was very helpful...i take it that most of your comments are directed to CRT, what about the newer digital devices?

i sort of disagree with the comment about only being 20%, but maybe that is just a difference of reference. When i was asking what percentage you could get to with a calibration disc, it was from the standpoint of 100% is perfect ISF calibrated, and 0% is as messed as you can make a display. So, right out of the box the display would already be at least 30% or 40%, and that is a conservative estimate IMHO, seeing as you can really mess up the way the picture looks from the default settings...

 

[Michael TLV]

Greetings

It all depends on where the starting line is and what TV technology you have.

If we say that all TV's come at least somewhat viewable ... let's give it 60% say.

Put a test disc to it ... likely takes it to 75% ... (Without equipment you really can't set contrast right anyway on CRT tech.)

Do a proper grayscale/colour decoder and set all the user controls correctly ... takes it to 90%

Now do the focus, geometry, convergence, etc. and that takes it the rest of the way to 100%

If you have an LCD rptv ... for instance ... then it comes OOTB at about 75% because it has no focus and geometry issues nor convergence issues. User stuff takes it to 85% ... and proper grayscale and colour decoder and image centering and resizing and other nifty little things take it to 100%.

Obviously lots of unknowns here as no one knows how a set is going to look OOTB ...

Oddly enough ... RPTV DLP (Samsung for instance) would be 70% OOTB but could never quite reach the 100% point because its performance just refuses to cooperate with some necessary tweaks.

Now can you live with a set at 60% or 70% performance ... of course you can. 99.9% of the people buying TV's do. The final % is also for people that have spent a sizable sum on the TV and want that final bit of performance from the TV. Not much different than wanting a bit more performance from your car and you buy a $50 air filter ... or go to synthetic oil ...

Regards

 

[Mike Wladyka]

Thanks Michael, very informative

 

[TommyB]

I received a response from my local ISF calibrationist after I told him I was going with Gregg. I told him that it was also suggested that I only had the 480p scan rate calibrated because it should get 1080i and 480i pretty close. He asked me to send him a list of Gregg's services in the $400 package, below is his response:



Is there any substance to what he is saying?

 

[Chris Sigua]

As an analogy to cars, think of an ISF calibration as the equivalent of blueprinting your engine. You're getting your TV as mechanically and electronically close to perfect as possible.

If you've never had it done or have seen a TV before and after an ISF calibration, it's hard to say yes. But once you see a calibrated picture, you become more aware of what a bad picture looks like (If all you've ever eaten is frozen pizza, then it will always be fine until you eat that great New York or Chicago style pizza). Gregg did my Toshiba last year and it was money well spent.

 

[Gregg Loewen]

Hi guys

Chris, thanks for the kind words! There is a misrepresentation of what a calibration is. An ISF calibration is setting the gray scale, along with contrast, brightness, color, tint, and sharpness. Some ISF techs will also do convergence for the calibrated scan rate.

What Tommy's quote is refering to is from an "old school" calibrator, that is doing an ISF only calibration. The arguments in the first paragraph are very flawed. I do generally agree with him with the 2nd paragraph. He doesnt mention removal of the glare screen. This step is HUGE to improving the image (but again is not part of an ISF calibration).

I, unlike Michael, like to do the front panel controls for HD, for which I need a HD signal generator, and charge $150 for this service (along with seperate image centering). I do this from within the service menu so the Toshiba controls remain at "default" movie mode. However, on a few Toshiba sets the grayscale will turn purple for HD so I will make a seperate gray scale for it using the standard or sports mode. Which brings me to SVM. SVM is only disabled in the Movie mode, so if I calibrate in one of the other modes, I will have to disconnect the wires to have SVM disabled. Warning, Toshiba does not like this and it will void your warranty. However, if you have a H81 (2 years old) your warranty has expired anyways.

As a side note, I carry 1/5 Million liability coverage. Feel free to invite the "local calibrator" over and I can show him just how good a Toshiba RPTV can look. I come across these guys all the time. They are all really nice guys, but think that since they work on $50,000 projectors and install $200,000 theaters they know all about "cheap" RPTVS, which isnt at all case. Im guessing that as this thread continues that a few more of my 1000 plus clients will jump in.

Just some random thoughts,

Gregg

 

[JohnnyG]

On a Toshiba, it's possible to get the entire TV whistling Dixie in Movie mode. With 1 tiny exception, every input type and screen mode can be made accurate without the customer having to touch a thing. Plug & Play! (the tiny exception being 4:3 with an NTSC input, where the Brightness ends up being a bit too high)

Maybe I should go on tour teaching this