is prgressive scan necessary if TVs have built-in line doublers?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by EricW, Sep 13, 2002.

  1. EricW

    EricW Cinematographer

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    is a progressive scan player necessary if TVs have built-in line doublers? i'm in the market for either a 36" tube or a 43" RPtv, but it will be HD.
     
  2. Jeremy Little

    Jeremy Little Supporting Actor

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    No, nothing is necessary. Getting a Progressive DVD will be a nice improvement, though. It depends on the set and the player as to how big the improvement is.
     
  3. Neil Joseph

    Neil Joseph Lead Actor

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    I think he means which is better, right? Progressive scan or traditional line doubling, and does progressive make the line doubler dispensable.
     
  4. EricW

    EricW Cinematographer

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    sorry, i didn't really mean necessary - just how much of an improvement would getting a progressive scan player be? i suppose it's just depends on the TV? right now i have a basic pioneer DVD-333 and am looking for either a 36" HD tube (possibly toshiba) or a 43" RPTV, like a 43FDX (toshiba as weel i think) or Samsung HCM43.
     
  5. Robby

    Robby Auditioning

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    Yes, you will definitely see a difference with a dedicated progressive scan DVD player. (Unless you have a Pioneer Elite RPTV.) However, the improvement will only be as good as your investment. There are countless "progressive players" on the store shelves of your tipical big box store. Not all players are equal of course. My free advise, get the Denon 1600 for about $500 or the Sony 715 for about $200. Those are your best values for inexpensive players.
     
  6. Allan Jayne

    Allan Jayne Cinematographer

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    If your TV is progressive scan and has a built in doubler, you can get away with a non-progressive DVD player. How much improvement you will see with a progressive player depends on many issues the most important of which is the quality of the TV's built in doubler. Every TV is different so only your auditioning (or someone else's auditioning published in a magazine) will tell which is better and by how much.
    Most HDTV ready TV sets scan only at the progressive rate (480p) and/or HDTV rate (1080i). In order to show regular analog broadcasts at all they must have a doubler built in.
    The choice is therefore not the TV doubler vs. the progressive player but rather should I get a progressive player as well. Do keep in mind that regular broadcasts and even the VCR can benefit with progressive scan so the TV built in doubler or even an external stand alone doubler is not a wasted effort. Of course the DVD player doubler only gives progressive scan for DVD's.
    For film source DVD's, the progressive player will beat any stand alone or TV built in doubler for complex technical reasons (fewer analog to digital conversions along the way.)
    If the TV has a very good doubler, the amount of additional improvement a progressive player will give you will be hard to see. Becasue progressive players these days are not too expensive, many folks go with both progressive scan DVD player and TV with good doubler.
    To add to the complications of the question, a few progressive DVD players don't do as well as some stand alone and some TV built in doublers for non-film source DVD's.
    Video hints:
    http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/viddoubl.htm
     
  7. Mike-grouse

    Mike-grouse Stunt Coordinator

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    I'll keep it simple.

    A progressive player (one with 3:2 pulldown aka do your rearch)
    will ALWAYS look better than a tvs internal line doubler even the pioneer elite.

    THe reasons are in the amount of steps it takes to deliver the picture to the diplay tubes:

    using the internal doubler: digital to analog, through cable to the tv, tv analog to digital, digital converted to progressive, sent to the diplay device.

    using proscan dvd player: digital to analog, through cable to the tv, sent to the diplay device

    5 steps versus 3 equals less shifts and less things that can go wrong. See for yourself. Go to a stor like tweeter andbring your own anamorphic dvds in. Don't feel bad about spending 30 minutes or more either. If they want your money they'll accomodate you.

    Have fun and good luck.
     
  8. Allan Jayne

    Allan Jayne Cinematographer

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    For you technophiles, it goes like this for CRT based TV:

    Using TV built in doubler:
    Decode video off DVD, it is digital and interlaced. Convert digital to analog (this includes component video). Down the cable to the TV. Analog to digital. Make it progressive scan. Digital to analog. Feed it to the picture tube(s).

    Using progressive scan DVD player.
    Decode video off DVD, it is digital and interlaced. Convert to progressive scan. Convert digital to analog. Down the cable to the TV. Feed it to the picture tube(s).

    Don't look at the next few paragraphs.

    For those TV sets that convert everything to 1080i rather than gear down to 960i picture tube scanning same as 480p when you feed in 480p:

    Using TV built in doubler:
    Decode video off DVD, it is digital and interlaced. Convert digital to analog. Down the cable to the TV. Analog to digital. Make it progressive scan (480p). Make it 1080i. Digital to analog. Feed it to the picture tube(s).

    (Note: converting directly from 480i to 1080i, or 240p to 540p, tends to give worse results than converting to 480p first and then to 1080i. I don't know who does it this way.)

    Using progressive scan DVD player.
    Decode video off DVD, it is digital and interlaced. Convert to progressive scan (480p). Convert digital to analog. Down the cable to the TV. Analog to digital. Make it 1080i. Digital to analog. Feed it to the picture tube(s).
     
  9. VinhT

    VinhT Second Unit

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    I have a 42" RPTV, and I noticed a dramatic difference between the built-in doubler and my progressive scan DVD player. My cheap TV bleeds red like crazy with the built-in upconversion. But with a 480p signal, it's much cleaner and you have to scrutinize the picture to find the bleeding.
     

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