Is Hip-hop approaching a collapse like hair bands 11 years ago? (1 Viewer)

[Bergan Peters]

I really really really hope hip-hop is approaching a collapse. I'm quite ready for some REAL music to dominate...the kind where they play instruments and write chord progressions and know what a "harmony" is. And if you want hotties, just watch Country Music Television. The women in every video (whether the artist is female or not!) are extremely beautiful, and tastefully dressed, as opposed to thong-clad bimbos in rap videos.

The women in country music videos are dressed as scantily as the women in hip-hop videos, there is one difference, they are WHITE.
[SARCASM]Maybe someday we can go back to the days of separate drinking fountains, and the kingston trio.[/SARCASM]
Hip-Hop music is an expression of the Black Community, like it or not, and the blanket disregard for an artform which is SO diverse can be NOTHING but prejudice and racism.

 

[Rob Michaw]

Hip-Hop music is an expression of the Black Community, like it or not, and the blanket disregard for an artform which is SO diverse can be NOTHING but prejudice and racism.

The same thing could have been said about jazz, early rock'n'roll, and motown. Not liking Hip-Hop does not make one a racist. I am definitely not a fan of Hip-Hop, but I do quite enjoy all the other forms of music that I mentioned. I am also not a racist.
Unfortunately, I have the displeasure of listening to hip-hop almost every day at work from a few people who really like it. It is playing constantly on their machines. I also hear Hip-Hop all the time leaking from cars with 30"s of subs. I came from a x-mas/New year's party tonight where Hip-Hop was played for hours. Yuck.
There have been the odd songs that I have heard that I like, but in general...I really can't stand it at all.
It really doesn't sound like music to me...at all. It does sound like poetry to me, but nothing about the music is engaging to me. Music makes me think of other things...it changes moods, translpants listeners, creates emotion. Generally speaking, Hip-Hop makes me think of other things too...earplugs. It just sounds like noise to me most of the time. Heavy, artificial bass beats drowning out everything to me. And I am not one to turn music down when I listen to it...but no matter what the volume is of Hip-Hop...it always seems to loud to me. This has nothing to do with the lyrics...I generally don't listen to any lyrics of ANY music that much...I spend most of my time focussing on the sounds that the song produces.
This is a good example of how/why I don't like Hip-Hop in general: I feel that Hip-Hop makes it's greatest impact with big subs and lots of bass...at least that is how it sounds all the time to me...HEAVY bass. Turn the volume way down, and it has become essentially nothing. Other forms of music, however, can be appreciated at very low volumes...or even humming the melodies.
These are just my opinions...and I don't frown upon people for liking Hip-Hop...I generally disklike country as well. But I do take issue with people labelling me...or others. That is no better than Hip-Hop haters labeling listeners of that genre.
That one statement made me write this 10 minute reply on a topic I really don't care much about. I doubt it was meant in a truly harmful way, but it grabbed me enough to take some time on this reply.
Maybe some of the groups that have been mentioned would appeal to me. I don't know...as I have no idea which groups I hear at parties or the office. I just know from my limited...yet forced experience, what I do hear just doesn't appeal to me.

 

[Bergan Peters]

This is a good example of how/why I don't like Hip-Hop in general: I feel that Hip-Hop makes it's greatest impact with big subs and lots of bass...at least that is how it sounds all the time to me...HEAVY bass. Turn the volume way down, and it has become essentially nothing. Other forms of music, however, can be appreciated at very low volumes...or even humming the melodies.

That is the prejudice you can't write off Hip-Hop music as just rap. The Roots isn't bass heavy at all, it's beautiful, soulful MUSIC. The fact that they are rapping their lyrics instead of singing them doesn't lower them in my eyes.

If anything, I believe hip hop is THE most diverse form of music because they are willing to explore new frontiers you will see different instruments often, whereas in rock and roll, could it BE more cliched? Some will argue that it allows the band to focus on the music, but I disagree, rock and roll died in the 70s and everything since has been a complete re-hash. I don't know why you would want one of the most inventive forms of music in history to fail? You want more lead guitar, rhythym guitar, bass, and drum music? I'd rather jab a flaming pencil in my ear repeatedly than listen to the SAME old thing.

 

[Tom Ryan]

Hip-Hop music is an expression of the Black Community, like it or not, and the blanket disregard for an artform which is SO diverse can be NOTHING but prejudice and racism.

Gee, I guess that's why I love the black-dominated and pioneering jazz and blues :rolleyes. Honestly, could you make a more ignorant statement? This isn't about racism, it's about the fact that hip-hop in general is an aberrant form of NOISE. Most hip-hop artists have nothing to say, and the "music" they make is churned out by the same few producers.
Is it all like this? No, there are hip-hop groups like The Roots that do have musical talent and that write things that I as an artist myself can actually enjoy. But still, hip-hop needs to go. When hair bands died at the end of the 80's, guitar-playing bands didn't completely die. Neither will hip-hop completely vanish, and nor should it. But the endless commercial posturing and "thug" life will end, and maybe some good music will actually emerge.
-Tom

 

[Jason_H]

I have to back up what Bergan said...hip-hop is NOT all about rap. Just because you don't like a small segment of the genre (mainstream MTV rap, which I also heavily despise), don't go off and dismiss the whole genre.

Look, I am not a die-hard hip-hop fanatic, my interests lie much more in British rock/indie stuff. That being said, I still immensely enjoy listening to and own albums from DJ Shadow, Dan the Automator, Beastie Boys, Prince Paul, Kool Keith, etc. I would put DJ Shadow's "Endtroducing" in my top ten albums of all time!

I think 95% of country artists suck a$$, but I don't go around telling people that "ALL COUNTRY MUSIC IS ABSOLUTELY WORTHLESS" because I would be discounting great artists like Johnny Cash and Willie Nelson. I will absolutely conceed though, that the mainstream portion of certain genres (rock, pop, hip-hop) is usually the worst since it is the genre in its most watered-down form designed to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

 

[Frank_W]

Concerning the topic - I agree, you can compare the two.

Why? Because MTV etc. promote a lot of crap and people

eventually get tired of it. Also the boy band 'thing' has been

done before - out of the mainstream for a bit -

back recently - and will eventually be done again.

There are some hair bands that were good and there are

some hip-hop artists that are good as well. Pretty hard

to say that a whole genre 'sucks'.

Jason and Bergan make a great point, hip-hop is NOT all

about rap but you would never beleive it from what most

people think or state. Nor was guys with long hair in

the late 80's and early 90's just about Aqua Net.

 

[Rob Michaw]

That is the prejudice you can't write off Hip-Hop music as just rap. The Roots isn't bass heavy at all, it's beautiful, soulful MUSIC. The fact that they are rapping their lyrics instead of singing them doesn't lower them in my eyes.

Where did I write off hip-hop as just rap? I didn't. While you may have valid points that some hip-hop is good music, what I have heard is not. You mention The Roots as a musical hip-hop group. I spent some time d'loading a few songs to listen to them, and essentially they are the same as everything else. True, there may be a piano in the background, but it is still bass oriented (the 4 songs I d'loaded). That is my problem...not the rap. (I am not a fan of rap at all either...I don't like the sound of it...I really couldn't care less about the message.) The hip-hop that is mostly rap, I really don't like because it so much rap...and definitely not my thing.

Most of the hip-hop that I hear at the office isn't of the heavy rap variety anyway...more on the electronic variety...with minimal rap slipped in.

My god, I must say that my opinion of hip-hop has probably worsened since I got involved in this thread. It has made me actually think about it. I have spent some time d'loading songs of groups mentioned here...and surfing through the MP3.COM directory of hip-hop. Wow...I dislike it much more than I thought.

That is the major problem here with those of you going to battle over this thread. I do not wish to change your opinion...nor am I trying to. You can like what you like...I can like what I like...that is what makes freedom so nice. I do hope that hip-hop is on its way out...or evolves into something better (in my eyes) because all this stuff that I truly dislike gets so much playtime on air. I am not anti-hip-hop...or anti-country...I just don't like it in general...and I hope it evolves into something I do like.

 

[Andrew_Sch]

I used to be an all-out rap fan between the ages of about 12-14 (and I'm white, go figure). I've since moved on to punk and alternative, but still break out some of my favorites like 2Pac and Xzibit from time to time. Anyway, on the subject of rap's death, I think it's the absence of emotion that's bringing it down. If you look at the great MC's (2Pac, Notorious, the dude from Gangstar, Canibus) they all rely either on emotions from their past experiences, like the first three, or God-given talent like Canibus. Now we've got an influx of marginally talented MC's who just scream about their money, cars, jewelry, women, etc. over a cacophony of re-used beats and obnoxiously loud bass, which I get the pleasure of hearing through the walls of my duplex courtesty of my neighbors. It's all good though, cause I usually blast back with some Metallica or crank up Gladiator in DTS. Anyways, now that I'm off of my neighbor rant, much of rap today isn't what rap is meant to be. Rap is about the experiences of your life that define you as a person. Sure, you can "floss" your success every once in a while, you've certainly earned that right, but remember to put emotion in the lyrics and originality in the beats and rap can be saved.

 

[Brad_W]

Q: "Haven't you ever heard of The Emancipation Proclamation?"

A: "I don't listen to hip-hop."

-South Park: Bigger, Longer, and Uncut

That pretty much sums up my feelings.

 

[Henry Carmona]

Hip-Hop music is an expression of the Black Community, like it or not, and the blanket disregard for an artform which is SO diverse can be NOTHING but prejudice and racism.

This very statement is seems prejudice and racist. Singing acapella was on the scene way before rap was, and practiced by many black american youths in the early days of "the Black Community".
The first rap i ever remember hearing had nothing to do with the "Black Community".
Stuff from Blondie, Beastie Boys, and even Run DMC wasnt even about their "Community", let alone the "Black Community".

 

[Shawn C]

Hip Hop is OK. I put the Beastie Boys into the hip-hop category rather than the RAP category. RAP was Run-DMC, 2 Live Crew, hehe, and guy like Kool Mo Dee.
I see a little 'country' vs. 'hip-hop' going on here. If there is ANY genre that has gone down the toilet, it is country music! Today's country music is nothing more than pop with a twangy singer and someone playing the steel guitar.
"She Daisy" is to country music what "INSYNC" is like to pop music. Country singers and bands seem to be manufactured at an even greater rate than boy-bands. I guess someone has to cater to the short attention span of the NASCAR crowd just kidding..
I actually seem to like SOME modern country. I like the fact that Toby Keith seems to be having fun making his music. And who couldn't stare at Shania Twain or Faith Hill for hours on end?

 

[Philip Hamm]

So much ignorance on this thread it's ridiculous.
Jason, I would respectfully take "Anthology" off your list and replace it with "The Low End Theory".
Link Removed

 

[JasonK]

Q: "Haven't you ever heard of The Emancipation Proclamation?"

A: "I don't listen to hip-hop."

-South Park: Bigger, Longer, and Uncut

That pretty much sums up my feelings.

What? That you can't form an opinion on your own? You have to take a comment from an excellent film and take it out of context? Very nice. Really shows how 'fun' it is on this forum to try to have an INTELLIGENT hip-hop discussion on the HTF. *SIGH*

Since my opinons will probably fall on deaf ears, let the thread-farting continue.

Jason

EDIT: Thank you Phil!!! My sentiments exactly. I haven't heard The Low End Theory all the way through, so I can't include it on the list. I'll have to check it out.

 

[Anthony Moore]

everyone just pop in a Pearl Jam CD and be saved

 

[Philip Hamm]

Jason,
The Low End Theory is one of the ten best albums produced during the decade of the ninties, hands down, regardless of genre. And easily one of the most influential rap or hip-hop albums ever made. The Seargent Pepper of hip-hop. That's just my opinion of course.... Can you tell I like the album?

 

[JasonK]

Philip,
You are not the first person to tell me that. The first 'Tribe' CD I picked up was Midnight Marauders. I still think that disc is fantastic. Then I got 2 other albums...the names escape me, I'll post them in as soon as I remember. I just threw 'Anthology' on the list since it
offers both "Award Tour" and "I Left My Wallet In El Segundo" on the same disc.
My own favorite Rap disc on the 90's was Dr. Octagon. The team of Dan the Automator, DJ Qbert, and Kool Keith is fantastic.
Jason

 

[Philip Hamm]

Shit! There's a horse in the hospital!!

.....not to mention "Bonita Applebum"....

MM is great, as is People's Instinctive Travels, and all Tribe, but Low End Theory is the mack daddy of Tribe.

 

[Jeff Kleist]

Try Japan for some good hip hop/rap. There, artists like Dragon Ash combine actual music, chords and progression, and harmony with rap/hiphop to form a unique sound that still remains musically valid. Do they have their share of fun songs that are noise? You bet. But along with that they have "Under Age's Song", "Grateful Days", and "Shizuka na Hibi no Kaidan wo" That are a joy to listen to.

YES 98% of US rap/hiphop is a bunch of morons running around trying to get into movies and acting like a bunch of idiots in the process. The ART FORM is a valid the, it's practioners (with of course some exceptions) are trash both in their music and their person.

I'm also glad that someone brought up acapella, jazz and blues as OTHER artforms originated by black americans which are personally much more appealing to my ear. Every time I find an acapella group on the street in the city, I make sure to stop and listen and applaud them. Some of these guys are amazing!

 

[JasonK]

Shit! There's a horse in the hospital!!

...I love that track, especially the line that precedes it. "Fuck it, he's dead." I like all the skits on Dr. Octagon, but my favorite is "A Trip to the Doctor's office." (IE the one with what sounds like Porn dialogue about 'cucumbers' mixed over a warped background bass track, with low moaning/humming. And it ends with Qbert scratching a scream.
But back to Tribe:
Ahh yes, Bonita Applebaum, forgot about that one. The other 2 discs I had were "Beats, Rhymes, and Life" and "The Love Movement." I was underwhelmed by both and ended up selling them. I'll have to check out Low End Theory for sure.

 

[Philip Hamm]

.....You need a bad operation.....