Is Hip-hop approaching a collapse like hair bands 11 years ago?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Travis D, Dec 28, 2001.

  1. Travis D

    Travis D Second Unit

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    I've been observing the music scene like many of you fine patrons for the past couple of years and I've had a thought buzzing in my mind and wanted your opinion.

    Rap is dead.

    Hip-hop has taken it's place. Now, when I say "Hip-hop" I mean these groups and or people, "Eminem, Bubba Sparxxx, Ja Rule, Jay-Z, Jermaine Dupre, Ludacris, Lil' Kim, Lil Wayne, Lil Bow Wow, all the other Lil's, and any other entity more concered about how many diamonds they can fit in thier teeth than using any talent they may have been blessed with to make a statement". Hip-hop is the tainted soul of what used to be Rap.

    Rap was Run DMC, Public Enemy, Beasties. Hell, Snoop and Dre were and I still think two of the more respectable and original people in the biz. Somewhere it died. Somewhere along the line they all became copies of copies of copies of copies. Can you really think of someone with the balls to do something original in mainstream hip-hop latley. Even critics have become so accustomed to this trite dribble that they praise the better of the worst, like Missy Elliot.

    I saw the same repetition when hair-bands ruled the waves and nothing could stand in their way. Then the Seattle music came into our lives an almost instantly those fake, monster ballad singing, blond boys left us forever. No matter how much you may hate grunge, you have to thank God it got rid of what it did.

    Now for the question I promised from the start. Can I assume that with the cycles of music that hip-hip will simply go away or will it continually evolve into higher levels of shit(or brilliance if that is your preference)?

    Also what is your opinion on the current state of hip-hop? Is all the good underground stuff to remain underground forever? Can the public not handle it? Can it not handle the public without being tainted by materialism so prevalent in mainstream hip-hop?
     
  2. Todd Terwilliger

    Todd Terwilliger Screenwriter

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    I would say there's still some very good rap/hip-hop artists out there but I would agree that they've been locked out of the mainstream, at least for the moment, by all of the carbon copies you spoke of.

    Just like the post-grunge mainstream, you really have to look to avoid getting bad copies of stuff we've heard done better countless times before.

    My only hope is that this stagnation on all fronts is the quiet before the storm of the latest revolution in music. Of course, what that may be, I have no idea.
     
  3. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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  4. Jagan Seshadri

    Jagan Seshadri Supporting Actor

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    Hell, rap was dead in 1991 as far as I was concerned. I mean, classmates with tapes of "DJ B and Cool G"? What the hell? Heh heh, I still remember listening to N.W.A. though. Great traffic-jam music [​IMG]
    -JNS
     
  5. Ryan Peter

    Ryan Peter Screenwriter

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    For me, Hip Hop was at its pinnacle when groups like Tribe Called Quest and De La Soul were popular.
     
  6. Polo Chavez

    Polo Chavez Auditioning

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    ...I remember the good ol' days when Hammer was represen'in' "Oaktown" and Too $hort was the only mack. Eric B. and Busy B ought to make a comeback and straight-up beat Puffy upside his dizzy J-Lo head. Yo, FUNK THAT!
    To qoute Kool Moe Dee, "I get the job done" and they ought to work!!!
    You know who ought to make a comeback...Biz Markie...
    EMINEM IS A PIECE OF CRAP...Fat Boys forever![​IMG]
     
  7. Jim_C

    Jim_C Cinematographer

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    "Potholes in my lawn" [​IMG]
     
  8. Peter_A

    Peter_A Second Unit

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    You guys want some good hip-hop, download something from Swollen Members. They're from up here in Vancouver and they have one of the best sounds right now(IMHO). Much better than all the stuff that's getting massive play on the radio and MTV etc. If you only wanna hear a couple tracks, I recommend Deep End, Fuel Injected, Take It Back, and Lady Venom. They're some of their more popular tracks.
     
  9. Kevin Farley

    Kevin Farley Second Unit

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    First, I'd like to address Travis. I'm not out to burst your bubble, (you have a point!) but Hip Hop is not about ice and bling bling. Hip hop is the collection of the 5 elements; Rapping, Djing, B-boying, Tagging, and (the most elusive) Consciousness expanding/Education. Rap is only one element. I agree with you that there is a "pop rap" genre that's blown up lately. I too am sick of the bling bling, although I was feeling "back that azz up", and there are some good songs in that category. But there's money out there to be huckstered from the 13 yr olds, and so on, and so forth. This is an excellent topic, imho, considering the state of the Hip Hop industry. No, hip hop isn't dead, it's just gone underground, like all real things that get sucked into the mainstream and pimped for all they're worth. e.g. Skateboarding, Yoga, Home Theatre... [​IMG] Anyway, there's groups like Jurassic 5, The Roots, Del, etc. that rock, and there's lots more out there, you just gotta hunt for them. There's excellent hip-hop happening now. Peace out to the underground...
    Recently, I was trying to open up someone's mind about Hip Hop, and realized that the way I see it, you gotta start at the top: SugarHill Gang, Grandmaster Flash, Treacherous Three, Marley Marl, etc. on through Run Dmc, KRS-ONE, and on and on you don't stop. Because it's hard to understand where rap is now without knowing the roots of it. I still get choked up hearing Rappers Delight: It's so powerful to realize how influential that record was.
    I feel all of you vibing different eras, and that's cool. I do think that when Biggie/Tupac went down, much was lost. Innocence was lost, and that's really &#&#&#* up. So yeah, I'd say it has faded a little, what with the Biggie/Tupac killings, and the Bling craze. But there's cracks in the facade, and the true soul will shine through.
    Damn!
    Just my 79 cents, (sorry if long and rambling!)
    and hey, check out the Ego Trip's book of rap lists, it's tight!
    Kevin Farley
    ps: Digital Underground!
    pps: Too $hort's still rockin it on my system, and he's up to album 13 now!
    Oh yeah, speak on your HT systems!
    I'm just getting started, we got EAD pre/pro and power amp(My wife worked at EAD for 6 years before they moved, so we got a good deal) , a panny rv 30, and I'm shopping around for speakers. any suggestions? (I've been vibing on vandersteens, MLs, etc. but that's future. maybe polk rt's for now, but the n0rhs and the HTD's are looking interesting...
     
  10. Kevin Farley

    Kevin Farley Second Unit

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    Yo, I'm tired;I gotta go to bed. but hey, Biz is coming back; he had some singles out recently. and check this site out: www.turntablelab.com they're so cool, it hurts. lots of excellent stuff there... Plenty of real live good hip hop.
    Peace,
    Kevin
     
  11. Craig_T

    Craig_T Second Unit

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    Probably not. I don't see how rock (or anything else) will ever have a chance to get more popular in today's narrow airplay market with a handful of labels and radio giants controlling so much of what gets heard. I'm not so thrilled with rock today anyway, especially when the top-selling rock acts are no-talents like Creed. Replacing hip-hop with crap like Creed is kind of be like replacing a Yugo with a Dodge Dart.
     
  12. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Craig, I'll easily take Creed over hip-hop crap any day. I have Human Clay. Great album. [​IMG]
     
  13. JohanK

    JohanK Second Unit

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  14. Nick_G

    Nick_G Stunt Coordinator

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    Is Hip-hop approaching a collapse like hair bands 11 years ago?

    one can only hope!! hip-hop and rap brought music down to a level that even exceeded the disco era. at least 20 years after disco you can still find yourself singing along to a "guilty pleasure type" disco song that you absolutely hated back in the 70's. hopefully the dregs of the music industry (rap/hip-hop artists and the @$$hole record company people that milked 'em)will all be buried much more deeper than 6 feet under. if a lot of those east coast/west coast factions would have shot more of each other, this could've been over a long time ago. now if we can only lynch the morons that push this crap on MTV ad nauseum!!!!
     
  15. JasonK

    JasonK Supporting Actor

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  16. JasonK

    JasonK Supporting Actor

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    And I also wonder if people who say thing like this...:

     
  17. Tom Ryan

    Tom Ryan Screenwriter

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    I really really really hope hip-hop is approaching a collapse. I'm quite ready for some REAL music to dominate...the kind where they play instruments and write chord progressions and know what a "harmony" is. And if you want hotties, just watch Country Music Television. The women in every video (whether the artist is female or not!) are extremely beautiful, and tastefully dressed, as opposed to thong-clad bimbos in rap videos.

    -Tom
     
  18. JasonK

    JasonK Supporting Actor

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    Hip-Hop IS REAL MUSIC. Tell DJ Shadow he doesn't know what 'harmony' is. Or Dan the Automator. Or DJ Krush. I mean c'mon people, do you realize how ridiculous these opinions are? Producing a good hip-hop album takes talent, gang. Same as any other genre.

    Just because not ALL rap artists play instruments (some, like Kool Keith, and the Roots do btw) does not make their music insignificant. Try listening to any of the 11 albums I posted above, then tell me that they "aren't music." It's difficult to understand how you guys can knock a whole genre without listening to some of the best stuff. Not only that, but you write it off as worthless. You are missing out on some great music, and that's a shame.

    Jason
     
  19. Kevin Farley

    Kevin Farley Second Unit

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    Hey Jason K:

    Thanks! That list was tight, and reminded me of a lot of groups.

    Kevin
     
  20. Nick_G

    Nick_G Stunt Coordinator

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    quote:

    And I also wonder if people who say thing like this...:

    quote:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    hip-hop and rap brought music down to a level that even exceeded the disco era....hopeefully the dregs of the music industry (rap/hip-hop artists and the @$$hole record company people that milked 'em)will all be buried much more deeper than 6 feet under. if a lot of those east coast/west coast factions would have shot more of each other, this could've been over a long time ago. now if we can only lynch the morons that push this crap on MTV ad nauseum!!!!

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    ...can offer any valid criticism or opinion of hip-hop. The above rant is a horrible thing to say. I also have to ask why are you watching Mtv "ad nauseum?" Do you expect to find good music? Sheesh.

    I've noticed a disturbing amount of rap/hip-hop bashing on this forum, mostly of the above sort. No crtiques of acts, just vulgar, childish ignorance. I've done my best to inform people of other artists, but some of the knocks on hip-hop get to be rather insulting.

    -Jason (The HTF hip-hop defender)

    am i watching MTV "ad nauseum"?? no, i'm not really watching MTV at all, because every time i turn it on there is the "hip hop/rap gold teeth stupid chain wearing brothahood" video playing, so why bother. just vulgar childish ignorance?? no not at all. just someone who likes MUSIC....have you ever heard of it?? it's a composition that has a melody and stucture. have you ever heard of the beatles, or dave brubeck, or bach, or count basie?? they all had a few moments of great music in their careers. it's funny how after all these years these artists are still remembered for their musical contributions. where will your "brothas" be in 20 years?? nothing more than a pimple on the ass of the history of music. you talk about insulting, nothing insults me more that the genre you rave about. would you really call those so called artists "musicians"?? no....maybe poets at best (and that is really stretching it). what really insults me is that there are real bands and musicians out there that will never see the light of day because the A&R morons at the record companies are just out to sign and milk these types of acts, make their money, and go home. am i just some dope who doesn't know or appreciate music?? no, i am someone who spent years on the road as a musician in rock bands, attended a prestigious music school, and loves all different styles of music from beethoven to ellington to robert johnson to johnny cash to the beatles to stone temple pilots to sponge to mudvayne. so if you wanna go one on one about MUSIC, the history of MUSIC and the mastery of MUSIC just make sure you don't come to the party without a loaded gun, because you will lose that duel before you can even draw!!
     

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